Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
426! I'm about as far from a "fundamentalist" as you can get.
The point was that the Democrats play themselves as poverty pimps and prey on the constituencies that then become their dependents (analog to the pimp / dependent=whores)
That you totaly missed that is your problem, not mine.
No value judgements either intended or implied.
Your defensiveness does ,however produce some curiousity.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Somebody had a post here moments ago that they must have removed. it made some general inferences about poiticians that I'd have to agree with.
Sewage systems are esential to the functioning of our society.
So are politicians.
The only crucial decision is picking the ones that are the least disfunctional.
The Dems are the Whigs of the 21st century, a disfunctional and irrelivent bunch. The Republicans well on their way to becoming the Democrats of the 1840's, or 1970's so secure in their power they don't see what's coming.
Something is going to change, and I don't think either present major party is going to like it.
|
|
bringmedeath
climber
la la land
|
|
If I had ever heard of Tom Delay I may give a sh#t...
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2005 - 11:17pm PT
|
Both parties are bought and paid for by money, with only minor differences in where the money comes from.
Both parties have suckers that they care about because they need their votes. Their loyalty to the suckers is only skin deep.
For the GOP it's the religious right. The GOP has no real intention of outlawing abortion which would create a backlash for them.'
For the Dems it's the poor and labor. They're not a top priority either.
What makes the Bush administration much worse than usual GOP or Dem administrations is the arrogant, naked, and blatant means that they use to serve the richest of the elite with no regard to human life, human rights, the environment that we all live in, or the long term viability that your kids will have to make a living in.
A related or unrelated fact: The richest 500 people in the world have more money that the poorest 3 billion put together.
Peace
Karl
|
|
426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
|
|
TGT-Touché. You're right, you don't sound "fundamentalist" at all....
But really now, there's someone dirtier than "Turd Blossom"?
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/karl-rove/
Plz...do tell.
I disagree with your assessment; to me both parties are in bed together (aka Republicrats/Demicans), will retain their power, and are an anathema to us all...
But I hope that you're right; as a registered Indy for my life, I don't cater much to the "least dysfunctional" choice...
|
|
Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
|
|
"If I had ever heard of Tom Delay I may give a sh#t... "
You also might be considered a participating member of a republic.
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
TGT:
"Something is going to change, and I don't think either present major party is going to like it."
We can only hope!
|
|
ralph_teh_klimber
climber
ralph town
|
|
"Sorry Tom we are going to have to cut you losse and allow the God-less liberal media and court system go after you, so George, Dick and I can continue on with Jesus's plan of assimilation of the non-believers. I hope you can understand as not one of us is bigger then the sum. With John on the bench now we should be able to continue our plight against the niggers, spics and other godless heathens."
-K Rove.
|
|
Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
|
|
At no point have I EVER referred to heathens as 'godless.' I do not appreciate being misquoted.
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
"The DA bringing the charges is an idiot and is doing this for political hack reasons only. Oh, and also to have fodder for the movie being made about him. A cameraman is following him around during these grand jury charades.
Last week, he convened a GJ and they told him to pound sand. He then went to another one, also in their last day, and rammed through the first indictment. Ooops, he then realized that the indictment was bogus and not valid and so with that indictment going nowhere, he grabbed a new GJ on Monday and in their first five hours on the job, got them to indict again. Funny thing though, he was indicted on a violation for something that was NOT ILLEGAL AT THE TIME HE DID IT. Another bogus charge. Then the jury foreman says in a radio interview that he had his mind made up on Delay's guilt BEFORE HEARING THE EVIDENCE! He said it was because of some conservative ads that he had seen on TV that irritated him.
The people that jumped on the "Yay! We got DeLay!" bandwagon are going to look pretty foolish when this is over with."
We now return you to your regular programming on Fox TV.
|
|
0uch!
climber
|
|
Another well reasoned, well thought out and well-presented response by me.
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
So Jody, it appears by a number of your posts that the conservatives, especially the neo-cons, can do no wrong in your eyes. I can't believe these are the same eyes that have such a talent for photography. When do you decide to put the blinders on and take them off? And when do you decide to wear the rose-tinted glasses and to take them off? Just wondering.
And from a native of the 'commie state', California, I think it is the greatest state in what is a great country. But then I would since I was born and raised there and not just a blow in. If you don't like it so much, why live there? Oh, a nice cushie state job. I guess though you can ask a similar question of me: if I love California and America so much, how come I live abroad?
Maybe someday over a coffee or pint we can both answer these questions, and maybe get in some climbing when I am back in shape.
Edit
Just jibing about the cushie state job. On macualted's 'Jody pulled me over' thread, I posted that I think law enforcement is a thankless job, but I am glad somebody does it, otherwise there'd be anarchy (unless your great leader - not mine - stops elections, banishes the Constitution and sets up a totalitarian theocratic state like he'd love to, however unlikely). Cops may not be perfect but they are probably the best solution to date.
Also, as I have posted several times on different threads, America was made great by both conservatives and liberals - but not fundamentalists, extremists, neo-cons and neo-libs.
|
|
deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
|
|
The Economist has a good article about the potential fracturing of the the conservative movement, initiated in part by criminal accusations of Delay, First, and Rove, and further shaken by the government's ineptitude after the recent Hurricanes.
It lists the factioning of:
Small government conservatives vs. big gov't conservatives
Conservative of faith vs. conservatives of doubt
insurgent conservatives vs. estabishment conservatives
Business conservatives vs. religious conservatives
Neo-cons vs. traditional conservatives
pretty good reading...
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
I remember a time when many people who called themselves conservative were a group of diverse political persuasions. Small businessmen and people who believed in individual responsibility, hard work, and saving for setbacks. That was before religion became little more than a political tool, foisted on a dumbing down public, susceptible to the big lie.
It was also a time of great hypocrisy. The robber barons were constantly striving to regain the power they wielded before the labor movement became a real force for change. The south was part of the Democrat Coalition, simply because the Democrats were willing to overlook the de facto slavery that persisted.
Now, conservative has come to mean fanatic neocons who would bring the country down before yielding anything. The sons of the old Confederacy and the robber barons are in control of the power base, with a certified nutcase at the top.
It's not hard to fool people who see religious icons in cheese sandwiches and believe in the boogerman.
The White House should be called the Boogerhouse.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
This business about Delay is very troubling.
However, not quite for the reasons that most discuss.
Let me lump in Frist.
I don't care so much about personal weakness, and attempts to enrich oneself....that is human nature. It is troubling when it involves violations of public trust, and is worthy of action then.
However, the troubling thread with these two is the attempt to basically subvert the (small d) democratic processes of our republic.
Delay's actions, setting aside any money issues, are to subvert the voting choices of Texas voters, and pushed through a redistricting scheme that had only the purpose of gerrymandering districts to put in an extra group of republican congressmen, increasing the power of republicans in Washington.
This has nothing to do with whether republicans or democrats are in power, it has to do with basic processes of government being subverted.
Frist is the author of the "nuclear option". He has figured out a way to subvert the process of a strong minority being able to exert influence in the Senate, though the traditional filibuster. He is attempting to change the "rules" that have worked for two centuries, to consolidate power that is just over a majority (the Republicans do NOT hold 90% of the Senate seats)
These are attacks on our basic democratic institutions.
In California, we are about to vote on an initiative generated from the Republican Governor, which will create more representative districts, instead of the gerrymandered (by both parties) districts that are so safe, that basically none are contested, statewide. To me, this seemed slam-dunk. I think that we should have representative districts, objectively created.
HOWEVER, that is not the motivation behind the action. THAT is to change the system to create more opportunity for Republican politicians to capture offices in this strongly Democratic state.
So, another change in the rules to create an advantage for a party.
THAT is the real threat to our country. That is why these men are dangerous. It is not conservativism, but rather insurrection, that is the danger.
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
Ken M, so true
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
Ken M. You are a savvy guy. These are real steps toward the tyranny of the Neocons. They will soon have the Supreme Court packed with Neocon politico/religious fanatics. A court that already delivered that cretin into the White House in the coup in 2000.
These are indeed assaults on the institutions of democracy, but since we have a neocon justice department and a sleeping public, I don't look for much to stop the insane juggernaut.
People will still vote the same idiots back into office in the midterms. This nation is stumbling around like a drunk on skidrow. Like a drunk, we will have to hit rock bottom in the gutter before there is any hope of change. We may very well not survive the stupidity we are caught up in.
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
America, the land of the free and free speech.
I am sure most of you heard about this but here's a link to the story anyway (from the Irish Examiner):
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/story.asp?j=12109068&p=yzyx9yzz&n=12109182&x=
Wasn't there a case like this a couple of years ago about some guy getting booted out of a shopping mall over a t-shirt?
Edit
For Jody below - I didn't mention anything about the First Amendment, I was thinking more along the lines of the spirit of our great country, the spirit that a person has the freedom of speech and expression (as long as it doesn't incite hatred etc) I mean does a t-shirt really incite anything except perhaps the indignation (self-righteous anger) that some people may express over seeing a t-shirt that 'offends' them. Where exactly is the line drawn? think about Jody, think really hard.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
The pile of sh#t the Rove got himself into is getting deeper. It appears that an indictment might be coming.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
The right to free speech is not unlimited, but limited! It has restrictions, just as we do not have unlimited freedom.
This is the world of duality and limitations and it is not unlimited.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!