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Chinchen
climber
Anacortes, wa
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Nov 29, 2009 - 01:12pm PT
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This thread is getting boring!
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2009 - 01:15pm PT
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Actually if one really looks at this clearly there is no actual redundancy.
You can easily die with gillard's nightmare ......
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 29, 2009 - 01:16pm PT
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We shoulda realized when the first "E" was left out that the coming entropic explosion, with all its attendant hot air, was surely on the way.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:04pm PT
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How much 7mm cord are you carrying to make this setup? (Seems like plenty.) If you set this up at each anchor then you need TWICE that much 7mm! Why load your neck/rack up with a bundle of cord that serves no secondary purpose?
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JimT
climber
Munich
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:04pm PT
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Cheer up, the night shift is here now!
From equalettes to tranvestite nuns without missing a beat, I bow in the presence of forum Gods!
From the UKC parallel thread which cannot even offer Daryl Hannah as recompense to reading endless drivel:-
"Rgold on Supertopo (who as it happens is probably one of the cleverest people on this earth) has already told you this. If you canīt see this then donīt start designing anchors".
Respect, brothers.
Jim
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:15pm PT
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Who dresses their daughter up like that?
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:17pm PT
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:18pm PT
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:20pm PT
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:20pm PT
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 29, 2009 - 02:22pm PT
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And that is all she wrote.
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Nov 29, 2009 - 11:37pm PT
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Hey Gaillard,
Test it. Does not matter how many others have tested every variation, you have the right to test em too. Test it to failure and see what happens. Testing is fun and interesting.
You don't need a huge testing rig or super expensive or complicated equipment to do basic testing of anchor principles. You can use weights of a few pounds or less and anchors that fail consistently at low loads. There are lots of ways to make simple anchors that fail at close to the same load over and over; magnetic hooks, spring clamps, loops of thread or string, webbing laid on a surface with weight (books) holding it down, etc. Experiment.
A few further thoughts.
If you really need to equalize it means that no single anchor can hold the load entirely by itself, or at least you are not sure if any single anchor can hold the entire load. If that is the case, then it seems likely that the whole will fail if one part fails.
If placing several marginal anchors, the capabilities of each anchor are likely to be highly variable. So exact equalization is not necessarily a benefit. You want to spread the load, but also reduce the load on the weakest anchor, if you can tell which one that is.
It is funny that you made fun of hip belays in this thread. If you have marginal anchors, a body belay could be an important way of further reducing the stress on those marginal anchors. If you can somehow use your body as part of the anchor, then that helps reduce the load on the other anchors as well.
Back to my original point. We should all be playing with this stuff once in a while, no matter how many other people have tested it out. Even if a thousand other people have done a climb, we can still learn and enjoy doing the climb ourselves. The same goes for testing anchor systems to failure. It is fascinating and highly educational.
Paul
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jstan
climber
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Nov 29, 2009 - 11:49pm PT
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My own supply of nuns and mermaids is running so low I really should not comment here. I would like to hazard that we might take this obviously interesting topic as a chance to have fun and learn, all at the same time.
The two go really well together.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2009 - 11:56pm PT
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A lot of times anchors can be setup bomber and still be totally stupid.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Nov 30, 2009 - 12:02am PT
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I haven't read all of the above but I'll throw in my 2 cents. One; I've recently started using the rope with big figure eight on end, with loop fed back through to create 3 adjustable rabbit ears (I don't know official name). Quick, strong, Serene (maybe not equalized if pull angle suddenly changes?), no extra gear. Second choice for me is just tied off cordelette. Simple enough if you can live with "not perfectly equalized" thing (I can). But if you do want the perfectly equalizing effect, why not use long runner or cordelette without the central tie off (sliding x style), then back up each leg with an 8 mm spectra runner, tied off to approximately the correct length (just enough slack to allow equalizing feature to work). Those runners are so light its not much of a weight penalty. fully equalized, and redundant, and to my mind simple to set up - even when fried from 16 hours on your feet. Maybe just carry one triple length 8 mm spectra plus three shoulder lengths. I think those together would be lighter than a regular cordelette.
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Sitting Duck
Trad climber
The Arctic
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gaillard was not as far off as most of you seems to think.
Pitch 14, 5.11+. Anchor rigged by one of the most experienced cimbers on the planet.
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Jonny2vests
Trad climber
Nottingham, UK
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Dec 10, 2009 - 06:41am PT
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Greetings North American brethren. We too on ukclimbing.com sit back in awe and wonder at the imaginarium of mr gaillard's mind. Our thread isn't as funny as yours though:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=383014&v=1#x5539647
Gaillard, I myself have something I've been working on and trying to improve. Admittedly, it's been around a while and has so far resisted all attempts at change. but I see no reason to not radically change it completely and ignore generations of logic and design...
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddx35n26_23g8p3cmdj
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