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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Apr 20, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
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I think there is some confusion of what Miranda Rights are (I may be the one who is confused).
I've always understood the intent of Miranda is to ensure a defendant knows their rights, but it neither grants then nor removes them. It only informs them of their rights.
Like it or not that kid has the full protection of the constitution right now. The question is whether he knows his rights or not.
At least that is how I thought it worked, hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Apr 20, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
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Thanks Ron, I'll have to dig into that in the future. Too much on my plate tonight.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 20, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
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That are you fringe lunatics worried about? Suspect ain't going anywhere but to a cold cell forever, at the least.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 20, 2013 - 09:03pm PT
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Well Yes Norton, of course that is the way it is. But Obama does have executive powers in dealing with the NDAA 2013 he did not employ. So in a sense,, just like bush before him, owns the new legislation.
ok Ron
NAME these "executive powers" the President has in "dealing with the NDAA THAT HE DID NOT EMPLOY
be specific
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Dover
Trad climber
New England
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Apr 20, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
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There are laws on the books federally in the NDAA 2013 which answers your question. In terrorist circumstances, habeus corpus is kaput..And in fact, he could face a trail by military tribunal too! He could be kept indefinitely with out any "rights" applied..
Ron - do you know if this suspension of rights applies to US Citizens?
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Dover
Trad climber
New England
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Apr 20, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
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Dover,,,Yes it does.
Thanks. I am sorry to say I hadn't paid attention to this when it was being deliberated. I will now, though. This is the 5th Amendment. People got so excited over the 2nd Amendment recently. This, to me, is much more serious. It is giving the state far more power than it has had for over 100 years.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Apr 20, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
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Lets all take a deep breath. Remember, it is 420 after all. I spent the day lounging in my pool. Tomorrow will be on the boat cruising the Delta ripping lips. And the day after? The sun will rise my friends...
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Apr 20, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
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Ron: The spring striper run is on with the females just starting to show up. I'll be doing some topwater / swimbaits early, then trolling the slack tide. It looks like it is going to be a little slice of heaven!
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Apr 20, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
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Pilgrims, there is plenty of time now. It will all get figured out, obviously. Due process is everyone's friend, not an adversary of the unlucky.
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Dover
Trad climber
New England
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Apr 20, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
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The last time haebeus corpus was suspended was by Lincoln, I think, due to the Civil War. I don't think that this 'war on terror' comes even close to that conflict. I felt that the federal government was expanding their authority through the so-called Patriot Act and at the same time restricting our rights in a dangerous way. It really bothers me that this is continuing. Perhaps the Boston bombing case will develop into an opportunity for a fuller public discussion and debate about all this. Don't get me wrong, he should be punished, for sure. But his rights should not be taken away, in my judgement.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Apr 20, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
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Cragman: I mean no disrespect to what has happened, just trying to lighten the mood a tad. A lot personal attacks and finger pointing going on. I think we all can use a deep breath collectively as a nation.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 20, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
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Hey, if the dude survives in 30 or 40 years the "progressives" will make a college professor out of him..
http://m.nypost.com/;s=O4JROaOEWO0nKCxTqyy5D26;fitScript=0/f/mobile/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/tale_of_two_terrorists_3WtcmY2p7PwFkbO1NheqNL
orty-three years ago last month, Kathy Boudin, now a professor at Columbia but then a member of the Weather Underground, escaped an explosion at a bomb factory operated in a townhouse in Greenwich Village. The story is familiar to people of a certain age.
Three weeks earlier, Boudin’s Weathermen had firebombed a private home in Upper Manhattan with Molotov cocktails. Their target was my father, a New York state Supreme Court justice. The rest of the family, was presumably, an afterthought. I was 9 at the time, only a year older than the youngest victim in Boston.
One of Boudin’s colleagues, Cathy Wilkerson, related in her memoir that the Weathermen were disappointed with the minimal effects of the bombs at my home. They decided to use dynamite the next time and bought a large quantity along with fuses, metal pipes and, yes, nails. The group designated as its next target a dance at an Officer’s Club at Fort Dix, NJ.
Despite the misgivings of some, it is reported that Kathy Boudin urged the use of “anti-personnel bombs.” In other words, she wanted to kill people not just damage property. Before they could act, her fellows were killed in the townhouse explosion. The townhouse itself collapsed; Boudin fled.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 20, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
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These days, who are the "progressives?"
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Apr 20, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
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The ones that get us where we want to go.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 21, 2013 - 12:28am PT
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Hey, if the dude survives in 30 or 40 years the "progressives" will make a college professor out of him..
As opposed to a criminal like Reagan, Ollie North or Dick Cheney who conservatives revere.
And if we're going to name someone truly dangerous as an enemy combatant then my vote would be for the owner of the Texas fertilizer company.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 21, 2013 - 01:42am PT
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There's almost zero thought process here.
This thread proves it.
It reaks completely of lobotomized MSM media whores .......
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 21, 2013 - 01:57am PT
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Problem is, you can't prosecute people once the gov't has violated their rights - that's why there's still all those people in Gitmo - the courts would just free them, because their "confessions" were "given" under torture.
A lot of misinformation on Miranda being posted, the above an example.
The only thing that Miranda applies to, is the ADMISSIBILITY of evidence gained from an interrogation. Nothing else.
So, for example, with the GITMO guys, there IS no other evidence, creating a real problem.
With the Boston guy, there is PLENTY of evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt, WITHOUT anything he might say.
They ARE taking a chance on using the emergency exception, in that they have declared the emergency over----so which is it, an emergency, or not?
I think reasonable people would agree that the identification of cohorts justifies the interrogation without Maranda.
However, even if it were ruled that the exception did not apply, the information obtained would STILL be admissible against SOMEONE ELSE, and it might lead to other terrorists planning attacks.
Choosing to invoke the exception is NOT a denial of Constitutional Rights, as this exception is specifically anticipated and covered by the Miranda Rule.
It is no different than the right to free speech, which in not unlimited---such as shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Apr 21, 2013 - 02:44am PT
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Look at all the police resources (unmarked cars etc) when it's time to capture the bad guy in front of the CNN cameras and applauding public. They should've used those high paid policemen at the actual (marathon) event in the first place.
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Degaine
climber
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Apr 21, 2013 - 03:41am PT
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Ron Anderson wrote:
Jeebs,, Obama has increased the Patriot act to its current extreme. See NDAA 2013. And His office just approved the current goings on. No body here gave a rip back when i was complaining about it. Wasnt flattering to the left i guess, although it affects us all...
Bold by me.
You're full of sh#t.
Karl, myself, and plenty others have been railing against the Patriot Act when it was passed over a dozen years ago, where the f*#k were you?
Those same people (including me) also railed against Obama not too long after his inauguration in 2009 for not closing Gitmo, repealing the Patriot Act, etc., and then again bitched and moaned when the NDAA 2013 was passed.
Beyond the world of Supertopo, plenty on the left howled in both 2001 and 2013 and during the twelve years in between. You don't get to blame "the left" for this one since you decided to sit on the sidelines for 12 years with your head up your a*# and your dick in your mouth.
You write a lot of stupid, clearly uniformed posts in here, but hey it's the Internet, right? But the downright deceitfulness and just plain dishonesty in the above post in order to paint yourself as some righteous person and everyone on the left as evil and partisan, well you're just a much dumber, lock-step, piece of sh#t f*#king as#@&%e than I thought.
Trying to score points against the left is just more important to you than honesty, integrity, and facts, eh Ron?
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Degaine
climber
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Apr 21, 2013 - 03:50am PT
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Dover wrote:
This is the 5th Amendment. People got so excited over the 2nd Amendment recently. This, to me, is much more serious. It is giving the state far more power than it has had for over 100 years.
Ironic isn't it? Republicans, the NRA, and most on the right howl (with some Democrats on Capitol Hill complicit) when it comes to the second amendment, but are okay with trashing all other rights - 1st, 4th, 5th, etc. (read Patriot Act, Gitmo, etc.) - in the supposed name of security (turns out for all the trillions, it's just a false sense of security at that). All the high-brow talk about defending the constitution, but not one person on the right made a peep in 2001, 2005, and even in 2013 with regard to the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, etc., etc., etc.
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