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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2015 - 07:58am PT
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Aid
Free - toprope
Free - tronsight
Free - followed
Free - yo-yo
Free - pinkpoint
Free - redpoint
Free - Flash
Free - Onsight
Free Solo
Onsight Free Solo
It's sport climbing. Who cares if clipping quickdraws makes it harder? Clipping harder is not the point, climbing harder is. The term "pinkpoint", in sport climbing anyway, hasn't been relevant for a couple of decades.
It makes the climb easier therefore dumbing it down. "I can redpoint that one if i pre-hang the draws." Just sounds stupid. Just say, "I can pinkpoint that one."
What about if I lower and pull the rope. Then on my subsequent attempt, I unclip the draw from the hanger, and re-clip it to the hanger before clipping the rope. Could I call that a red-point if I do it for each pre-hung draw?
Since you would be clipping a draw and then the rope i think that's fair game.
Extra points for jumping jacks V! Lol
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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I care because it makes the route easier. And i don't give a sh!t about how you did it, but for me, it's not a redpoint until I go ground up and place the pro myself.
Word up...Pink Point aka "Pinking" is still a relevant term to me.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Style is personal. Do what you want. You do get points for keeping it "a hundred" by being perfectly clear about what you do when telling others.
For me and my sense of style the more you do with less, the more juice there is in it.
I felt like posting only 'cuz the the stylin' list upthread seems upside down. Here's my take FWIW.
Onsight free solo
Free solo
Onsight free placing your own gear
Free placing your own gear
Onsight free clipping bolts
Free clipping bolts
Onsight free clipping draws
Free clipping draws
Free after rehearsal placing your own gear
Free after rehearsal clipping bolts
Dogging placing your own gear
Dogging clipping bolts
Dogging and whining at the same time
Dogging and spraying at the same time
Onsight follow
Follow
Rehearsed follow
Onsight toprope
Free toprope
Rehearse toprope
After a point it all seems kinda silly. Just be truthful and clear when talking about your climbing and then those distinctions aren't so important. Or, we could just climb in our own style, for our own reasons, and not care what other people think about it.
Aid is a different animal and game, as is mixed. It doesn't fit on the list.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa y Perrito Ruby
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From now on you cannot claim a second ascent of any route I do unless you have a blue buttplug inserted.
In your shoe?
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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What about climbing with only hands and feet? I saw on the news that some guys did a super dangerous route on El Capitan and were the first to use only hands and feet so it seems pretty hardcore and should be on the list.
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Grippa
Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Many times certain sport routes were bolted with the idea that the draws would be prehung before the lead attempt is made. This puts the hanger in a weird location for clipping on the onsight, and usually puts the climber in the position to hang them top down from an adjacent route.
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Barbarian
climber
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I clipped a bolt anchor at the top of Monday Morning Slab (Right Side). Does that make my ascent invalid as a redpoint? Do I have to downgrade to a pinkpoint?
I enjoyed climbing so much more before someone thought up all these rules!
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Five15Factor2
climber
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How am I supposed to enjoy something unless there are clear-cut definitions in place to validate how I'm doing it better than you?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2015 - 08:58am PT
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I enjoyed climbing so much more before someone thought up all these rules!
Isn't it fun to have an actual discussion about climbing however?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Connecting pinkpoint to sport climbing = noob trying to make sense of the 5.12 and up world based on their 5.8 experience.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2015 - 09:01am PT
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Did Kurt Albert pre-hang his draws?
Edit. Fleece harness? Interesting.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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My favorite piece of gear ever was a JRAT pink/purple harness with fleece. Does that count?
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Haha. Mike is turning Squamish Christian! Jk bro.
Personally I don't care about red/pinkpoint, ratings, or style. I'm not good enough of a climber for it to be relavent. One mentor of mine always said "You're only cheating yourself" which is a great saying cause it does only matter to yourself.
I do totally agree though Mike, that if you claim something say what it actually is.
Here's a good one, I've been credited with a couple FAs, that I didn't even climb, but merely belayed. I was against being listed for holding a rope, but my partner insisted that he couldn't have done it without me. Lol. I don't consider it an FA and in the scheme of things it really doesn't matter.
I don't climb for style, grades, or numbers. I climb for the experience of the rock, the adrenaline that results, and the memories of being in the mountains with my friends. That I do claim.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2015 - 09:24am PT
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I don't climb for style, grades, or numbers. I climb for the experience of the rock, the adrenaline that results, and the memories of being in the mountains with my friends. That I do claim.
Totally! I ain't putting up any personal bests right now! It's all about fun. I just think it's interesting that people have dumbed down the term redpoint so they can feel better.
It degrades the term pinkpoint which i also think is valid.
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Climbing with a quarter squeezed between your ass cheeks also makes it harder, but is still not somethign I care about when sport climbing
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2015 - 09:28am PT
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Come on Alpamayo. Certainly you can do better than ad hominems.
Sorry Weston.... I guess we should get back to politics...
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Big Mike - the 80's are calling. Oh wait, you were still shitting in your diapers.
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Sorry, I and many other sport climbers (not that I do much sport climbing these days) just don't consider the clipping of a quickdraw to a preplaced bolt to be a particularly relevant to the goals of sport climbing. The whole point of sport climbing IMO is that it allows a convenient, relatively safe environment in which to push your climbing abilities. The clipping is just a necessity and not particularly relevant to the climbing. And in many cases, TRing a route makes it even harder than just clipping quickdraws on lead (think very steep climbs). So, no, I don't particularly care to use the term "pinkpoint" when it comes to sport climbing. Now if there's pre-placed gear, OTOH, I think the distinction is relevant. It has nothing to do with dumbing things down, or inflating ability, it all just comes down to what you find important. If you asked me, of course I'd be honest and tell you that the draws were already up, but I'd never consider it dishonest if you said you redpointed a route with pre-placed draws. Language evolves and I pretty much consider this word a unnecessary relic of the past. I guess we'll agree to disagree.
BTW, just to stir things up more...you do know that cannot onsite an already bolted sport climb, right?
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Five15Factor2
climber
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What if I climb it blind folded and find the bolts by feel?
EDIT: Also by that logic is it not possible to onsight a splitter crack?
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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What if I climb it blind folded and find the bolts by feel?
Nope. Just by virtue of feeling the bolts you will know that there must be a good clipping hold nearby and therefore have previous knowledge of the route before you actually find the hold. Next.
Following natural features and following human-installed features are not the same.
Of course my answers are ridiculous...but not any more so than the original question.
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