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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Well we know where you stand, but fortunately the regulations differ from that.
It's not like the regs are the f*#king Constitution, they are easily changed and relaxed, Johnson!
Look at gov't and how many times other regs were relaxed/ignored. This was a hit-job, not just a "we're just following the rules" kinda thing.
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2012 - 12:37am PT
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I have to admit to being confused as to why the cattle ranches are allowed to continue. Seems to me that they have more impact.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Again, land and sea are worlds apart from all perspectives - they aren't comparable in any regulatory aspect.
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dipper
climber
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Firstly,
Bluering, you give morons a bad name. Try reading up on a subject just a tiny bit before spouting as you do.
Bluering spouted:
Has anybody heard of bad oysters coming from Drake's? No.
(08-11) 15:28 PDT Inverness -- State health officials warned consumers not to eat raw oysters harvested recently by Drakes Bay Oyster Co. of Inverness, saying three people had gotten sick after slurping up the mollusks.
See here for full story:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Contaminated-oysters-make-three-people-sick-3781471.php
Bluering spouted:
Stupid. They had little impact on the environment.
On the DBOC website, they state: "As stewards of the land, our practices are driven by a deep respect for the earth and the waters of the Estero ecosystem."
Those 6 inch long black PVC spacers are used by Kevin to grow oysters. I have picked up over 5000 of them since 2008 from as far north as the tip of Tomales Bay, south to Slide Ranch. Others have picked up tens of thousands more. The black bags are grow out bags, dozens of those litter the beaches of PRNS each year. The white foam floats are from grow out bags, they litter the beaches by the hundreds too.
Is this the work of someone that respects the earth and Drakes Estero?
Go listen to this episode of the radio show "KQED Forum" from 30 June, 2009 to get some background on the issue. Bluering, you are excused, you clearly have no interest in facts. Are you related to Stephen Colbert?
http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R906301000
Kevin Lunny changes his story as needed. He knew the park was not planning to renew the lease when he bought it in 2004. He gambled and he lost.
I know many of the latinos that work and live on the farm. Lots of children live there too. This will be very hard on them. But in the bigger picture, this is the right thing to do.
I live 15 minutes from DBOC and I kayak on the estero often. I encourage you to go out there and paddle it yourself. It is closed to boating March - June due to Harbor Seal pupping, please respect this. You will see why people are fighting to keep it as pristine as possible. Be sure to go out on an ebb tide on a calm day. Then ride the tide back in after a few hours of bliss. You need at least a 3 foot tide or you will be dragging your boat across the mud. Wear shoes that will NOT be sucked off your feet, be sure to have a 10 foot rope on the front and back of your boat. If you see birds walking ahead of you, it is TOO shallow to boat, go around.
Beware of fog, you can get lost in Barries and Creamery Bay on the way back in white out conditions. Do not go out on a windy day, the prevailing winds will work you hard on the way back. Stay at least 300 feet away from the harbor seals when they are hauled out. Harbor seals are very curious and will swim close to your boat. Keep your eyes peeled for leopard sharks and bat rays. The birding is fantastic, cormorants, brown and white pelicans, osprey, sanderling, many sandpipers, dunlin, marbeled godwits, willets, whimbrels, loons, grebes, turkey vultures, plovers (snowy, semi-palmated, black-bellied, golden), many paserines on shore, alas, no dippers.
The solitude is sublime.
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John M
climber
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Schooled..
thanks for the post dipper.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Great post dipper.
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dipper
climber
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You are welcome folks, I am glad to be able to shed some light on this touchy topic.
And then there are the three launches with outboard motors that are used to move oysters and workers around. Think of them as the green dragons of drakes estero. (Green dragon is the name given to the long green/yellow trailers used by Curry Company to haul tourons around The Valley with an employee sitting at the front with microphone giving a tour. You could hear them up on the cliffs very clearly when climbing) When you are sitting silently in your yak, watching birds or zoning out on the sound of the water and waves, those boats are a major buzz-kill. They are not as bad, in my opinion, as the NPS makes them out to be in terms of disturbing the harbor seals, but they do have a negative impact on the seals and all the other critters that live in the estero.
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2012 - 12:18pm PT
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Qintl and dipper, thanks for the posts. I understand the pastoral zone better now. I Bet the falls in the video are cranking now.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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here's a link to a video that's worth watching
some of the highlights:
the wilderness area was created when the landowners approached the gov to donate their land in exchange for "40-year leases renewable in perpetuity" for their small low-impact farms
the owner of the oyster farm was cited as a model steward of the land by...the national park service
the alleged 85% drop in harbor seals occurred in the "wilderness" part of the bay nowhere near the oyster operation and was determined to be the result of entirely natural causes
the nps used data from a 50-year-old oyster feces study conducted in japan; the only oyster feces study done at drake's bay in 2005 found "no traces" of oyster feces in or around the farm
two reports by the national academy of sciences found "no adverse impact" from the oyster farm
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/11/29/video-feds-shut-down-100-year-old-oyster-company-destroys-some-lives-and-dreams/
"the government that is big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take it away"...thomas jefferson
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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bookworm.....The points of the video are well stated but generalizations are made. Not all ranches and businesses were granted "in renewebale perpetuity" as the video implies. Some properties were condemned much like the houses on the spit, some sold out for fair market value, and some were granted leases like the old Johnson Oyster Company which were granted for a certain period of time to be renewed or not by the NPS. I do think the park made a mistake by using science to back up the lease agreement. They should simply have stuck to the lease agreement to get the property back as they have done with other properties since science can be skewed both ways as we all know. As was pointed out up thread, aqua culture and ranching are two very different things...And most kids of this generation of those farms don't work the land because, sadly, it doesn't pay. Lunny made his money not on the farm but in construction but used his family's background for sympathetic videos like this. And as to the loss of jobs, I'm very sorry that they've lost employment but who's to blame? The park for exercising it's long known rite or Lunny who knew going in that it might not be a long term proposition? Although the NPS may have thought the oyster farm was a good steward after Lunny got it, many in the environmental community wanted it shut down after Johnson's went under and didn't want the lease renewed.
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john hansen
climber
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Kinda OT but,
I wonder how long it would take for the forest to grow back if the ranches were closed down.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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"LET THEM EAT CLAMS" -Da Gobment peoples. Photo below.
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JOEY.F
Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
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QINTL, tfpu.
It is anyone's thread. The links you posted are interesting. to say the least. And you're right that it is heating up.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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so i finally went through and read some of the memoranda, parts of the initiating legislation, and a lot of very garbled reporting on the topic.
there are multiple public land designations in the general area, including a historic site-- the area that includes the oyster co. was set aside for future wilderness designation with what is a pretty clear legislative intent that it would become full wilderness once the lease expired in 2012.
in 2004 lunny bought the co and its lease anyway, knowing that it was likely to expire in 2012, but presumably gambling that a conservative republican candidate would win election that year and put in a sympathetic sec-int, and then extend the lease-- thus setting a potential precedent for commercial leases in other wilderness areas. (yes, guide services and high camps run lease deals in wilderness, but those are considered "conforming use" ops that further the intent of enjoyment of wilderness-- commercial shellfishing is a non-conforming use, like asbestos mining or drilling for oil.)
that didn't happen. obama was re-elected, ken salazar (a pretty middle-of-the-orad former rancher, often vilified by environmentalist outfits), kept his job, and decided that the oyster co. as a non-conforming lease was "incompatible" with wilderness designation. it had nothing to do with environmental impacts. it had everything to do with the question of what constitutes conforming/non-conforming commercial activities in wilderness areas.
my understanding is that the cattle ranches are actually outside the boundary for the wilderness designation-- but i can't find an accurate map, so that may not be correct.
i haven't heard anyone make a case for why my tax dollars should subsidize a commercial shellfishing operation. it's certainly not an economically rational activity-- if that land were privatized, there's no way an oyster co. could survive in that zone. that land would immediately either become a mcmansion ranch for lucas or ellison or get turned into a jillion dollar condo development like a more expensive sausalito. either way, it'd be overrun by democrats. can't imagine that'd make the republicans happy, either.
east bay express isn't exactly a crown jewel of journalism, but this report appears to get the jist of the story correct, as best i can tell without putting a whole lot more time into this:
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/the-real-reasons-for-ken-salazars-decision/Content?oid=3405939
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Gene
climber
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Lunny purchased the right to occupy the oyster farm for the last seven years of a 40 year permit knowing full well that that right would terminate this year. DiFi’s rider gave Salazar the right to extend the permit at his discretion. Salazar exercised his discretion and said no extension. The how or why of Salazar’s decision is irrelevant.
Quit crying Lunny and pack up.
g
EDIT: Simulpost with above.
EDIT2: If the permit were to be extended, do you think Lunny would agree that anyone could have the right to bid? That the highest bidder should prevail.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Unfortunately the NPS got into a science battle filing an EIR which they didn't need to and Lunny is going to use the science for all it's worth. Hopefully the simple idea of the lease expiring will win the day. The same thing happened in Bolinas to the ranch at the head of the lagoon. The lease holder tried to fight it on stewardship grounds but lost in the end. Great reporting QTINL. The usual lawyers to pick this stuff up is the Pacific Legal Foundation.
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dipper
climber
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klk wrote:
"i haven't heard anyone make a case for why my tax dollars should subsidize a commercial shellfishing operation."
And subsidize it you do. Lunny pays $2800 a year to the NPS plus another nominal fee to California Fish & Game (soon to be Fish & Wildlife) to run the oyster farm. That is $2800 per YEAR to run an operation that generates $1.5 million per year. Cheap labor, 9 dollars per hour for most of them.
It is pretty easy to see why Kevin changes his tune often and is fighting so very hard to keep this sweetheart deal.
He accuses the NPS of tearing apart the fabric of this rural community, when it is he who is doing just that by not abiding by the lease that he bought for a song.
Since the taxpayers of the US of A are subsidizing this operation, maybe everyone ought to stop by and ask for a sack of their oysters for their holiday dinner.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Gene...Good question about right to bid..As was mentioned, some leases are in perpetuity to the lessee with the NPS deciding whether or not to renew. I don't know if that's the case with the oyster farm.
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