Drakes Bay Oyster Co. will have to leave Point Reyes.

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JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 29, 2012 - 10:01pm PT
Here's a link to the details.
http://www.marinij.com/westmarin/ci_22090541/drakes-bay-oyster-company-will-have-leave

The ranchers could be next.
The Lamon/Hutchings stakes in The Valley ring a bell, they went to the Supreme Court. Thoughts?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Nov 29, 2012 - 10:12pm PT
This is sad. Emotionally, I'd much rather the oyster farm had been allowed to stay as an historical use.
Their lease was up.
Sen Feinstein (from San Francisco) is not happy about it at all.
"I am extremely disappointed that Secretary Salazar chose not to renew the operating permit for the Drakes Bay Oyster Company," Feinstein said. "The National Park Service's review process has been flawed from the beginning with false and misleading science, which was also used in the environmental impact statement."

I'd say the ranchers are OK for another 20 years at least.
The decision also ensures that, in keeping with the historic use of the land, existing sustainable ranching operations within the national park will continue, Salazar said.

He directed the National Park Service to pursue extending the terms of agriculture permits from 10 years to 20 years to provide greater certainty and clarity for the ranches operating within the national park's pastoral zone and to support the continued presence of sustainable ranching and dairy operations.

Sen. Boxer who lives in Marin County supports the decision
“This has been a very challenging issue, but I have great respect for the decision made by Secretary Salazar to allow this permit to expire at the end of its term. He studied the issue carefully, he listened closely to all sides and, in the end, he made his decision based on the science and the law.”
http://boxer.senate.gov/en/press/releases/112912.cfm
The fact these two local liberal Senators disagree makes it clear it was not an easy decision.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 29, 2012 - 10:27pm PT
Times change....a lot of old industries are no longer viable. Most ranching on marginal land in the West is a losing proposition. The sheep ranchers in Patagonia are fast disappearing....forget the nostalgia, in a lot of these cases the environment is the winner.
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2012 - 10:52pm PT
The operation overall seems low impact, but the decision points to a true wilderness effort. I feel for the proprietors, but I think they had a good ride while it lasted.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Nov 29, 2012 - 11:25pm PT
At least 30 more people on unemployment and made homeless.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 29, 2012 - 11:29pm PT
Stupid. They had little impact on the environment. This is more feel-good bullshit that kills more jobs in Calif.

So it's okay to get oysters elsewhere, in somebody else's backyard, but not here?

Another reason I hate this feel-good bullshit!
karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Nov 29, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
what part of this being a "National Park" are you naysayers unclear about? These should be (but arent) non commercial public use areas. Keep your profiteering on private land. And yea I think the DNC should get evicted from Yosemite too, and the park run as a nonprofit.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 29, 2012 - 11:43pm PT
Maybe it shouldn't have been declared Nat'l Park, maybe a State Park. Ever been there?

How long has that rig been there? Why was it decided it had to be Nat'l Park?

Times change....a lot of old industries are no longer viable. Most ranching on marginal land in the West is a losing proposition. The sheep ranchers in Patagonia are fast disappearing....forget the nostalgia, in a lot of these cases the environment is the winner.


This is a really silly notion. Old industries??? No longer viable? Yeah, right!

We have the most awesome maritime regs ever, for sustainable harvesting of food.

Go talk to f*#king China and Japan, and then get back to me before you criticize US industry! And Norway too for that matter, the bastion of leftist Utopionism!@

Meh....
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Nov 29, 2012 - 11:56pm PT
what part of this being a "National Park" are you naysayers unclear about? These should be (but arent) non commercial public use areas. Keep your profiteering on private land.

They were there before it was a National Park.

But if the Feds don't want to extend the lease so be it.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 29, 2012 - 11:56pm PT
Reading comprehension bluering....work on it...meh.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:01am PT
what part of this being a "National Park" are you naysayers unclear about? These should be (but arent) non commercial public use areas. Keep your profiteering on private land. And yea I think the DNC should get evicted from Yosemite too, and the park run as a nonprofit.


Okay, so Yosemite is off limits to climber's defacing a nat'l monument now too? No more hand drilling or piton slamming in the park?

You are a selfish, unthinking bunch. My local crag has been permanently shut down because off people like you because of one f*#king bird! One bird!!!

I f*#king hate do-gooders....

EDIT:
Reading comprehension bluering....work on it...meh.

Why is ranching non-viable? In Patagonia and Drakes Bay?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:10am PT
Here's the area;

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Drakes+Bay,+Marin,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.865097,-122.689819&spn=0.600621,0.883026&sll=37.269174,-119.306607&sspn=9.682765,14.128418&oq=Drakes&hnear=Drakes+Bay&t=m&z=10
John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:14am PT
I f*#king hate do-gooders....

Jesus was a do gooder.. LOL

actually I might agree with you on this one. I like wild areas, but not all jobs are bad. I just don't know much about the history of this one.

I live on private property surrounded by a national park. I would hate to see that private property taken.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:25am PT
Jesus was a do gooder.. LOL

Don't bring the Man into this. This is just pure stupidity.

Environmental reviews? Really? Has that son a of a bitch, Salazar, or anybody, seen Drake's Bay? It's fine.

Why are we funneling arms to Mexico and Syria? Bigger questions.

One dead Mexican Mayor who was a bold woman, and 4 dead Americans in Libya.

Keep tree-hugging though....
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:35am PT
I live and grew up in West Marin and have eaten the oysters almost since the beginning. It's a tough choice....The bay is a beautifully intact model of what the small bays and lagoons of California were like before most all of them were permanently altered for the worse. You have to remember that major plans for development were to take place before the advent of the park. Everyone likes to bag on the park but it would have been a developed nightmare where no-one would want to be. Think Seadrift in Stinson Beach to get an idea (and where Diane Feinstien has a house)of what would have happened there. There were houses built on Limantour spit behind a locked gate (you can still see evidence of them) which was the start of what would have been a Seadrift like sub-division,that were torn down when the park was instituted. Drakes Estero is arguably the most pristine estuary on the coast. True, the oysters were good but I think in this case, it's for the best. If it weren't for the fact that there are oysters grown in Tomales Bay, it would have been harder to do. Go and kayak on the Estero sometime and decide for yourself.
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2012 - 12:39am PT
It seems like The Company did well with the 40 year variance they got. If it was me, I don't believe I would expect (although I would hope) it would be renewed.
Heyzeus

climber
Hollywood,Ca
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:40am PT
F*#k, i was just about to whole heartedly agree with Bluering until that last post, but after that, oh man. So now I can only agree that the oyster farming should stay. But I did read that memorandum and it seems a deal's a deal. And he threw a bone to the ranchers.

Ate a lot of oysters at Johnson's. Was a cool place as a kid.

I think it sucks. I mostly hate NP's, but's it's better than a shitload of suburban houses
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:44am PT
I live and grew up in West Marin and have eaten the oysters almost since the beginning. It's a tough choice....The bay is a beautifully intact model of what the small bays and lagoons of California were like before most all of them were permanently altered for the worse. You have to remember that major plans for development were to take place before the advent of the park. Everyone likes to bag on the park but it would have been a developed nightmare where no-one would want to be. Think Seadrift in Stinson Beach to get an idea (and where Diane Feinstien has a house)of what would have happened there. There were houses built on Limantour spit behind a locked gate (you can still see evidence of them) which was the start of what would have been a Seadrift like sub-division,that were torn down when the park was instituted. Drakes Estero is arguably the most pristine estuary on the coast. True, the oysters were good but I think in this case, it's for the best. If it weren't for the fact that there are oysters grown in Tomales Bay, it would have been harder to do. Go and kayak on the Estero sometime and decide for yourself.


That's really touching, but will Tomales Bay be next? These f*#kers will never stop! It started with the offshore marine sanctuary that brought all the pain-in-ass seals to SF docks shitting everywhere.

At some point you have to release nature, stop the regulations.

Abalone, whole different story.
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:57am PT
JoeyF...well put but you must know that Lunny isn't a poor generational oyster farmer. He owns a very successful construction company and bought the lease knowing full well that he'd have an uphill battle. This is more of what I'd call a hobby farm of which there are many in Marin. Lunny is not some poor farmer but portrayed himself to a local public sympathetic to farmers (a sympathy I hold for the true generational farmers of the area). If it weren't for the fact that he somehow got the ear of DiFi, it would have been over long ago. DiFi is no environmentalist locally. As was said in the other post, she owns a house on Bolinas Lagoon in a private sub division which has an ongoing failed process for restoration of the lagoon which will never happen because of development. We are so lucky to have Drakes Estero in the shape it's in so close to a major metropolitan area.
Edit: No bluering...Wont happen On Tomales Bay. That's the trade off. Tomales Bay is developed. And I know many of the oyster folk there and am glad they are still in business. But two very different areas.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Nov 30, 2012 - 01:09am PT
He certainly did portray himself as a multi-generational family farmer. This puts it in a whole other light. Thanks for the info.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 01:12am PT
Edit: No bluering...Wont happen On Tomales Bay. That's the trade off. Tomales Bay is developed. And I know many of the oyster folk there and am glad they are still in business. But two very different areas.


That's cool. Just beware that you are next. Keep your guard up!

I'm a fisherman too. I love you guys. Watch them!
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2012 - 01:22am PT
wstmrnclmr,
Lunny must have known of this possibility. Good guy, I am sure. He knew what he was getting into. 40 yrs is a good run.
The whole coast could be condos from the Golden Gate north. Different issue I know. But on the whole I think the decision by Salazar is a good though difficult one.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 01:32am PT
These guys were still talking about Donini's last visit...

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 01:40am PT
Why does everybody assume it's either nothing or condos? You can have zoning regs in place w/o f*#king gov't telling you how to use your state land!

Jesus, help us, you people are as stupid as you claim I am!

Senator Boxer should go off and f*#k herself and let us do a better job at managing our state.

Has anybody heard of bad oysters coming from Drake's? No.

Keep the Fed out@!
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2012 - 01:44am PT
Ok blue, against my better judgement, I confess, I am stupid.
I also just blew powdered sugar out of my nose via khanom. Stupid.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 01:55am PT
Sure it was powdered sugar???

Whatever, bro. I'm just tired of hatin' on fishermen, even if they;re "commercial". These guys were running a good shop! They loved the Bay, an THEY F*#KING RESPECTED IT!!!

That is the key. The Federal gov't? They don't give a f*#k! Despite whatever bullshit they try to sell ya.
John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 01:57am PT
There would be a tram to the top of half dome if the feds hadn't stepped in.

Yer an idiot Blue.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:11am PT
You're wrong, John, in only some regards.

Most fisherman respect the law, almost all. But the few poachers give the gov't the reach to effect all.

Abalone is a good example, and white Sturgeon too. Both have been poached relentlessly!!!

Russian gangs and Asians. No respect for our State laws.

The sturgeon for the black-market caviar, the abalone goes to Japan.

These people are being arrested, but more needs to be done!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:18am PT
Did I ever tell ya, John, I wanted to be a Game Warden from high school? My bitch counselor said that it was a weak choice...1984. I hope that bitch...well, I mean no ill-will publicly,.

My point? I love the environment and animals. I also like eating them. I understand there is a balance. When hippies start tweaking the systems, you can create an odd balance. An abundance.

2 words; Deer ticks
John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:25am PT
You are wrong too Blue. Federal laws have protected things that states were doing nothing about and private businesses were destroying.

Have they over reached at times? Sure.. so have the states. So have cities, so have private businesses. Lots and lots of private businesses.

Every human organization makes mistakes.

Whether its..

Private enterprise
City, County, State, or Federal Government
Police
fire
Military,

Whatever.


There are some things we likely flat would not have if the feds hadn't stepped in. There are many places that would be polluted messes for generations, without fed intervention. Your blind hatred is misplaced and ignorant.

We need sound federal oversight.
We need sound state oversight.
We need Sound regulations.

Not hatred.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:32am PT
What was the Oyster CO doing wrong, John?

EDIT: All you regs are well in place already, but we've gone too far now, bra!
John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:35am PT
When hippies start tweaking the systems, you can create an odd balance

Yes.. tree huggers can make mistakes.. they are some times ignorant. But so can private businesses. They are some times greedy. Just ask the people of Humboldt county about the Pacific lumber company. This is a simple link and easy to read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Lumber_Company

a greedy private businessman ruined an area for generations to come.

Tree huggers saved some incredible old growth forest.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:40am PT
Dude, the irony in your statement is so thick it's uncanny.

The hippies mostly want the Earth to stay like your God supposedly created it.

Without the hippies, there would be no balance. Your God's beautiful creation would be in ruins.


"my God", well that's weird. I assume it's not yours as well, and we have different gods? Or no Gods? Whatever, that's yer problem.

This is about letting people use the land responsibly. They have done so. And they feed people. Hippies can f*#k off!

John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:43am PT
Christians can f*#k off..

So can libertards who vote republican.

Or whatever it is that you call yourself.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:45am PT
I give up...you people make no sense.

John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:46am PT
neither do you.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:47am PT
no, neither do you...so there!

c'mon....get the last word!!!!
John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:51am PT
Easy enough. If the feds hadn't stepped in that whole area would have been developed. Should the oyster farmers get to stay? I personally think so, but understand the reasons why they didn't. Your blanket hatred of all things federal is stupid. That area would be much worse off if they hadn't stepped in.
John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:53am PT
And your blanket hatred of all things hippy related is also stupid.

just like others blanket hatred of all things Christian.. Or all things religious.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:55am PT
Yeah, I'm just a hater...and a dick too.

Hey, wanna climb Fresno Dome?
John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:58am PT
What you are is a person who over uses blanket statements and blanket ideology. You aren't stupid. But sometimes you certainly act as though you are.

I don't climb anymore. God had other plans for me.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 03:16am PT
I could try to tie this my Communists thread but I'll try not to. The ocean is mesmerizing,

I dig the ocean prolly more than you, for like 35 years, and it is mesmerizing, and powerful.

Cool...the ocean is rad.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 30, 2012 - 08:36am PT
Non-native oysters and a long history of poor operations and debris pollution by the prior owner. It's a fair call.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 30, 2012 - 10:49am PT
Bluering, why do you ALWAYS use childish, inflammatory and derogatory language to describe people who disagree with you? You talk tough, but are you tough? Somehow I don't think so.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:22am PT
First marine wilderness in continental U.S. is designated

The U.S. Interior secretary refuses to extend a permit for a commercial oyster farm operating in Point Reyes National Seashore. Sen. Dianne Feinstein had championed the business.

By Julie Cart, Los Angeles Times

November 29, 2012, 8:40 p.m.
The federal government cleared the way Thursday for waters off the Northern California coast to become the first marine wilderness in the continental United States, ending a contentious political battle that pitted a powerful U.S. senator against the National Park Service.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar settled the dispute by refusing to extend a permit for a commercial oyster farm operating in Point Reyes National Seashore. Congress designated the area as potential wilderness in 1976 but put that on hold until the farm's 40-year federal permit ended.

As the expiration date approached, the farm became the center of a costly and acrimonious fight that dragged on more than four years, spawned federal investigations and cost taxpayers millions of dollars to underwrite scores of scientific reviews.

"I believe it is the right decision for Point Reyes National Seashore and for future generations who will enjoy this treasured landscape," Salazar said Thursday. The area includes Drakes Estero, an environmentally rich tidal region where explorer Sir Francis Drake is believed to have made landfall more than 400 years ago.

Salazar's decision drew a sharp response from Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who had championed the Drakes Bay Oyster Co. in its fight with the government. Feinstein said in a statement that she was "extremely disappointed" with Salazar's decision.

She had argued that the National Park Service contorted scientific studies to make the case that oyster harvesting operations caused environmental harm to Drakes Estero, a dramatic coastal sweep of five bays in Marin County north of San Francisco.

"The National Park Service's review process has been flawed from the beginning with false and misleading science," her statement said. "The secretary's decision effectively puts this historic California oyster farm out of business. As a result, the farm will be forced to cease operations and 30 Californians will lose their jobs."

Feinstein had attached a rider to an appropriations bill giving Salazar the unusual prerogative to extend the farm's permit. The company was seeking a 10-year extension of its lease.

Salazar said he gave the matter serious consideration, including taking into account legal advice and park policies. He directed the park service to develop a jobs-training plan for the oyster company's employees and to work with the local community to assist them in finding employment.

The company will have 90 days to remove its racks and other property from park land and waters. When that occurs, the 2,500-acre Drakes Estero will be managed as wilderness, with prohibitions on motorized access to the waterway but allowances for snorkeling, kayaking and other recreation.

The new wilderness will become only the second marine protected area in the national park system and the first in the Lower 48 states. The only current marine wilderness is 46,000 acres in Alaska's Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve.

Environmental groups applauded the decision, which they lobbied for.

"We are ecstatic that this ecological treasure will be forever protected as marine wilderness," said Amy Trainer, executive director of the Environmental Action Committee of West Marin.

The heart of the debate is an agreement that Kevin Lunny and his family inherited when they took over a failing oyster operation in the park in 2004. That lease with the park service stipulated that the business would cease operations in 2012.

Kevin Lunny has from the beginning sought to stay on the property and continue harvesting oysters. His farm has an extensive record of violating state and federal agreements and permits. The California Coastal Commission has fined the farm for various violations, issued two cease and desist orders and repeatedly requested that the Lunnys acquire a coastal development permit.

The state agency initiated another enforcement action against the farm earlier this month.

Lunny could not be reached for comment.

The farm's mariculture operation has found support among west Marin County's advocates for sustainable agriculture, who agreed with Lunny that federal and state agencies were unfairly hounding his operation.

His travails have caused alarm among the historic cattle and dairy ranches that operate within the national seashore in a designated pastoral zone. Park officials have repeatedly said they have no intention of curtailing ranching operations, and Salazar echoed that, adding that he wished to extend the terms of the ranch leases from 10 to 20 years.

The Lunny family also has a cattle operation in the park.

julie.cart@latimes.com

Copyright © 2012, Los Angeles Times

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

How does this make it a 'wilderness'? It is a joke to say Glacier Bay is
a 'wilderness'. Since when do 'wildernesses' have cruise ships in them?
squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
why do I even read through this bullsh#t, blueing you are an idoit...
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
Hippies can f*#k off!

I certainly don't want someone who seems to hate everyone else running things. How is that going to improve things?

And what the heck is a hippie? Didn't those go away in the late 60's and get replaced with tree huggers? Or is there some other new insulting name that you want to give this all encompassing stereotype?

Lay off the cussing and name calling and you might sound adult enough to be taken seriously.

Dave
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
Blue and Ron sittin' in a tree
Hatin' on the govment
O whoopee
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:36pm PT
Well, come on, maybe Bluey doesn't express himself in the most palatable
manner for y'all but who here is so sanctimonious as to claim they wouldn't
be rather put out by the government coming along and telling you you're
sh!t out of luck and options and, oh by the way, you've got 90 days to clear out?
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
From LA Times Op Ed Yesterday.

For all you bleeding heart right wingers -- please note this undisputed fact:

"In 2004, the Johnsons sold their oyster operation to the Lunny family, with full disclosure that on Nov. 30, 2012, the lease would expire."

So why should we feel like the Lunny's got a raw deal?

Or more importantly, why should the Lunny's be able to get a "special deal" and not have to live up to the legally binding deal they made?


By Richard White

November 27, 2012

If you want to know why environmentalism has so little political traction these days, you need to go no further than Point Reyes, Calif. The beautiful Point Reyes National Seashore just north of San Francisco may be the most interesting national parkland in the country. It combines designated wilderness with operating ranches and dairy farms, and it is now embroiled in an utterly manufactured controversy.

At the center of the dispute is Drakes Bay Oyster Co., which operates on Drakes Estero, a spectacular and ecologically significant estuary located in an area that has been federally designated as wilderness. Drakes is successor to Johnson Oyster Co., which the National Park Service (thanks to American taxpayers) bought out in 1972. At that time, the government granted the company a lease to continue operations for 40 years. In 2004, the Johnsons sold their oyster operation to the Lunny family, with full disclosure that on Nov. 30, 2012, the lease would expire.

Under the provisions of both the Wilderness Act of 1964 and the Point Reyes Wilderness Act of 1976, neither the National Park Service nor the secretary of the Interior should have any discretion over what happens to Drakes Estero after the lease runs out. At that point, the law dictates, it is to be managed as wilderness, a designation affording the highest level of protection from intrusive human activity. But that hasn't stopped an array of politicians and politically connected Bay Area residents from pushing for an extension of the lease.

What might seem like a local dispute has far-reaching consequences for the ability of the National Park Service to stop resource grabs and allow policy and science, rather than well-placed political donors, to inform decision-making.

The issue has divided interest groups that usually are of like mind. On one side are liberal Democrats (aided by Sen. Dianne Feinstein) who promote local and organic foods. They think businesses like the oyster company should be encouraged. On the other side are liberal Democrats who advocate on behalf of wilderness and public access to parks. But only one side has the law on its side, and it's hard to imagine why a liberal Democratic senator with a strong environmental record is seeking special privileges to help a favored constituent subvert the Wilderness Act.

In politics, as in so many things, it is not the facts or the law but the story that matters. When Feinstein tells the story of Drakes Estero, she portrays it as a case of the National Park Service overreaching to shut down a family-run oyster farm. But her story doesn't mention that the Lunny family purchased the company in 2004 knowing what the future held, or that they signed a special use permit in 2008 that specifically stated that commercial shellfish operations would be allowed only through November 2012.

Both sides have tried to cite science to bolster their cases. Initially, supporters of the oyster farm came in with carefully selected evidence that oyster farming helps the environment. When a National Park Service study concluded otherwise, it was attacked, and the National Academy of Science was asked to review whether the study was biased against the Lunnys. It found no evidence of scientific misconduct, but beyond that it was equivocal about what degree of impact the oyster company had on the environment. Later, a Marine Mammal Commission study confirmed that the oyster company operations do disturb harbor seals, a significant finding because Drakes Estero is one of the largest mainland breeding populations of harbor seals in California.

The scientific back and forth was to be expected, but Feinstein used it to attack the National Park Service. She introduced legislation, eventually signed into law, that subverted the Wilderness Act by granting the secretary of the Interior — currently Ken Salazar — power to extend the lease for the oyster farm. Salazar ordered an environmental impact statement, which generated 52,000 public comments, the overwhelming majority of which favored letting the oyster farm lease expire and making Drakes Estero wilderness. The report concluded that not extending the lease was most consistent with law, policy and science, and that the land should become wilderness.

Now it is up to Salazar. He has the environmental impact statement, the public comments and long-standing park policy guidelines to inform his decision about a lease that ends this week. He also has the stubborn demand for a new lease from a powerful Democratic senator. But it shouldn't be a tough call. The Wilderness Act is clear about the reasons for designating certain areas as wilderness and about exactly what that means.

For years, I taught classes using the park as a laboratory because of its unique and successful experiment in combining ranching, dairy farming and wilderness. I once wrote an essay called "Are You an Environmentalist or Do You Work for a Living?," which criticized the environmental movement for missing the ways that people understand nature through work. So I am hardly an automatic advocate of wilderness.

But I also think that protecting designated wilderness is crucial, and that people need to play by the rules. Everyone involved in this saga knew what the agreement entailed and that the oyster farming was to end. That agreement shouldn't be subverted by special interests with friends in high places.

Richard White is a professor of history at Stanford University and the author, most recently, of "Railroaded: The Transcontinentals and the Making of Modern America."

Copyright © 2012, Los Angeles Times
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
No Reilly I don't want to be put on the street by the government.

But this was an agreement they entered into knowing full well when the lease was up.

It's not like this was the over reaching heavy boot of the gov't or something.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
I realize all of that. I don't really feel so sorry for the owners but I
do feel for the working slobs, especially in this economy. I also fail to
see how it would have hurt anything to give them an extension. How is
oyster farming more harmful than the grazing they currently allow? Seems
like cherry picking or spitefullness especially after Salazar's visit a
while back when he played the hail fellow well met at the oyster farm.
John M

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 03:03pm PT
I realize all of that. I don't really feel so sorry for the owners but I
do feel for the working slobs, especially in this economy. I also fail to
see how it would have hurt anything to give them an extension. How is
oyster farming more harmful than the grazing they currently allow? Seems
like cherry picking or spitefullness especially after Salazar's visit a
while back when he played the hail fellow well met at the oyster farm.

My basic opinion too. From having lived inside a national park for 20 plus years.

Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
There really is no need for commercial fishing in a NP. That said I find it very interesting that Don Neubacher was removed as Super from Pt Reyes after an independent review of Park Service scientific data showed that he was cooking said data toward closure of the Fishing Operation.

This is the same Super that is now cooking RockFall data in Yosemite to close a number of sites in C4, there needs to be an independent review of this data. "once bitten, twice shy" . . .
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Nov 30, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
Hopefully the Ahwahnee is next...very dangerous location...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 30, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
How is oyster farming more harmful than the grazing they currently allow?

Well, for a starters they are worlds and oceans of different - each dominated by different laws and interest groups both inside and outside of government.
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Nov 30, 2012 - 05:29pm PT
So sad. i was out there just last week. Was one of my favorite weekend adventures with family and friends. it was a model for how business and the environment can co-exist. -1 for Sierra Club and Salazar
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:48pm PT
I agree, Chris. The business respected the area.

Hippies are wrong sometimes (usually)! Business can coexist.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:54pm PT
Non-native oysters and a long history of poor operations and debris pollution by the prior owner. It's a fair call.


Alright, tree-hugger, does this mean we can start pumping water to Central Valley farms again and tell the Delta Smelt to "f*#k off"???? Also a non-indigenous species.

Can we? Asshole!

A lot of people have lost farms because of that little f*#king fish! Drive though there sometime and you'll see some angry signs. "Gov't caused this dustbowl"

Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:03am PT
Alright, tree-hugger, does this mean we can start pumping water to Central Valley farms again and tell the Delta Smelt to "f*#k off"???? Also a non-indigenous species.

Can we? Asshole!

A lot of people have lost farms because of that little f*#king fish! Drive though there sometime and you'll see some angry signs. "Gov't caused this dustbowl"

Well we know where you stand, but fortunately the regulations differ from that.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:08am PT
Well we know where you stand, but fortunately the regulations differ from that.


It's not like the regs are the f*#king Constitution, they are easily changed and relaxed, Johnson!

Look at gov't and how many times other regs were relaxed/ignored. This was a hit-job, not just a "we're just following the rules" kinda thing.
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2012 - 12:37am PT
I have to admit to being confused as to why the cattle ranches are allowed to continue. Seems to me that they have more impact.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:49am PT
Again, land and sea are worlds apart from all perspectives - they aren't comparable in any regulatory aspect.
dipper

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 02:20am PT
Firstly,

Bluering, you give morons a bad name. Try reading up on a subject just a tiny bit before spouting as you do.

Bluering spouted:
Has anybody heard of bad oysters coming from Drake's? No.

(08-11) 15:28 PDT Inverness -- State health officials warned consumers not to eat raw oysters harvested recently by Drakes Bay Oyster Co. of Inverness, saying three people had gotten sick after slurping up the mollusks.

See here for full story:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Contaminated-oysters-make-three-people-sick-3781471.php


Bluering spouted:
Stupid. They had little impact on the environment.




On the DBOC website, they state: "As stewards of the land, our practices are driven by a deep respect for the earth and the waters of the Estero ecosystem."


Those 6 inch long black PVC spacers are used by Kevin to grow oysters. I have picked up over 5000 of them since 2008 from as far north as the tip of Tomales Bay, south to Slide Ranch. Others have picked up tens of thousands more. The black bags are grow out bags, dozens of those litter the beaches of PRNS each year. The white foam floats are from grow out bags, they litter the beaches by the hundreds too.

Is this the work of someone that respects the earth and Drakes Estero?





Go listen to this episode of the radio show "KQED Forum" from 30 June, 2009 to get some background on the issue. Bluering, you are excused, you clearly have no interest in facts. Are you related to Stephen Colbert?

http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R906301000


Kevin Lunny changes his story as needed. He knew the park was not planning to renew the lease when he bought it in 2004. He gambled and he lost.

I know many of the latinos that work and live on the farm. Lots of children live there too. This will be very hard on them. But in the bigger picture, this is the right thing to do.


I live 15 minutes from DBOC and I kayak on the estero often. I encourage you to go out there and paddle it yourself. It is closed to boating March - June due to Harbor Seal pupping, please respect this. You will see why people are fighting to keep it as pristine as possible. Be sure to go out on an ebb tide on a calm day. Then ride the tide back in after a few hours of bliss. You need at least a 3 foot tide or you will be dragging your boat across the mud. Wear shoes that will NOT be sucked off your feet, be sure to have a 10 foot rope on the front and back of your boat. If you see birds walking ahead of you, it is TOO shallow to boat, go around.

Beware of fog, you can get lost in Barries and Creamery Bay on the way back in white out conditions. Do not go out on a windy day, the prevailing winds will work you hard on the way back. Stay at least 300 feet away from the harbor seals when they are hauled out. Harbor seals are very curious and will swim close to your boat. Keep your eyes peeled for leopard sharks and bat rays. The birding is fantastic, cormorants, brown and white pelicans, osprey, sanderling, many sandpipers, dunlin, marbeled godwits, willets, whimbrels, loons, grebes, turkey vultures, plovers (snowy, semi-palmated, black-bellied, golden), many paserines on shore, alas, no dippers.

The solitude is sublime.

John M

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 02:22am PT
Schooled..

thanks for the post dipper.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:17am PT
Great post dipper.
dipper

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:15pm PT
You are welcome folks, I am glad to be able to shed some light on this touchy topic.


And then there are the three launches with outboard motors that are used to move oysters and workers around. Think of them as the green dragons of drakes estero. (Green dragon is the name given to the long green/yellow trailers used by Curry Company to haul tourons around The Valley with an employee sitting at the front with microphone giving a tour. You could hear them up on the cliffs very clearly when climbing) When you are sitting silently in your yak, watching birds or zoning out on the sound of the water and waves, those boats are a major buzz-kill. They are not as bad, in my opinion, as the NPS makes them out to be in terms of disturbing the harbor seals, but they do have a negative impact on the seals and all the other critters that live in the estero.
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2012 - 12:18pm PT
Qintl and dipper, thanks for the posts. I understand the pastoral zone better now. I Bet the falls in the video are cranking now.

bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
here's a link to a video that's worth watching

some of the highlights:

the wilderness area was created when the landowners approached the gov to donate their land in exchange for "40-year leases renewable in perpetuity" for their small low-impact farms

the owner of the oyster farm was cited as a model steward of the land by...the national park service

the alleged 85% drop in harbor seals occurred in the "wilderness" part of the bay nowhere near the oyster operation and was determined to be the result of entirely natural causes

the nps used data from a 50-year-old oyster feces study conducted in japan; the only oyster feces study done at drake's bay in 2005 found "no traces" of oyster feces in or around the farm

two reports by the national academy of sciences found "no adverse impact" from the oyster farm

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/11/29/video-feds-shut-down-100-year-old-oyster-company-destroys-some-lives-and-dreams/

"the government that is big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take it away"...thomas jefferson
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Dec 1, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
bookworm.....The points of the video are well stated but generalizations are made. Not all ranches and businesses were granted "in renewebale perpetuity" as the video implies. Some properties were condemned much like the houses on the spit, some sold out for fair market value, and some were granted leases like the old Johnson Oyster Company which were granted for a certain period of time to be renewed or not by the NPS. I do think the park made a mistake by using science to back up the lease agreement. They should simply have stuck to the lease agreement to get the property back as they have done with other properties since science can be skewed both ways as we all know. As was pointed out up thread, aqua culture and ranching are two very different things...And most kids of this generation of those farms don't work the land because, sadly, it doesn't pay. Lunny made his money not on the farm but in construction but used his family's background for sympathetic videos like this. And as to the loss of jobs, I'm very sorry that they've lost employment but who's to blame? The park for exercising it's long known rite or Lunny who knew going in that it might not be a long term proposition? Although the NPS may have thought the oyster farm was a good steward after Lunny got it, many in the environmental community wanted it shut down after Johnson's went under and didn't want the lease renewed.
john hansen

climber
Dec 1, 2012 - 10:25pm PT
Kinda OT but,

I wonder how long it would take for the forest to grow back if the ranches were closed down.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Dec 5, 2012 - 09:40am PT
"LET THEM EAT CLAMS"
-Da Gobment peoples. Photo below.


JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
QINTL, tfpu.
It is anyone's thread. The links you posted are interesting. to say the least. And you're right that it is heating up.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Dec 5, 2012 - 08:23pm PT
so i finally went through and read some of the memoranda, parts of the initiating legislation, and a lot of very garbled reporting on the topic.

there are multiple public land designations in the general area, including a historic site-- the area that includes the oyster co. was set aside for future wilderness designation with what is a pretty clear legislative intent that it would become full wilderness once the lease expired in 2012.

in 2004 lunny bought the co and its lease anyway, knowing that it was likely to expire in 2012, but presumably gambling that a conservative republican candidate would win election that year and put in a sympathetic sec-int, and then extend the lease-- thus setting a potential precedent for commercial leases in other wilderness areas. (yes, guide services and high camps run lease deals in wilderness, but those are considered "conforming use" ops that further the intent of enjoyment of wilderness-- commercial shellfishing is a non-conforming use, like asbestos mining or drilling for oil.)

that didn't happen. obama was re-elected, ken salazar (a pretty middle-of-the-orad former rancher, often vilified by environmentalist outfits), kept his job, and decided that the oyster co. as a non-conforming lease was "incompatible" with wilderness designation. it had nothing to do with environmental impacts. it had everything to do with the question of what constitutes conforming/non-conforming commercial activities in wilderness areas.

my understanding is that the cattle ranches are actually outside the boundary for the wilderness designation-- but i can't find an accurate map, so that may not be correct.

i haven't heard anyone make a case for why my tax dollars should subsidize a commercial shellfishing operation. it's certainly not an economically rational activity-- if that land were privatized, there's no way an oyster co. could survive in that zone. that land would immediately either become a mcmansion ranch for lucas or ellison or get turned into a jillion dollar condo development like a more expensive sausalito. either way, it'd be overrun by democrats. can't imagine that'd make the republicans happy, either.

east bay express isn't exactly a crown jewel of journalism, but this report appears to get the jist of the story correct, as best i can tell without putting a whole lot more time into this:

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/the-real-reasons-for-ken-salazars-decision/Content?oid=3405939


Gene

climber
Dec 5, 2012 - 08:23pm PT
Lunny purchased the right to occupy the oyster farm for the last seven years of a 40 year permit knowing full well that that right would terminate this year. DiFi’s rider gave Salazar the right to extend the permit at his discretion. Salazar exercised his discretion and said no extension. The how or why of Salazar’s decision is irrelevant.

Quit crying Lunny and pack up.

g

EDIT: Simulpost with above.

EDIT2: If the permit were to be extended, do you think Lunny would agree that anyone could have the right to bid? That the highest bidder should prevail.
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Dec 5, 2012 - 09:18pm PT
Unfortunately the NPS got into a science battle filing an EIR which they didn't need to and Lunny is going to use the science for all it's worth. Hopefully the simple idea of the lease expiring will win the day. The same thing happened in Bolinas to the ranch at the head of the lagoon. The lease holder tried to fight it on stewardship grounds but lost in the end. Great reporting QTINL. The usual lawyers to pick this stuff up is the Pacific Legal Foundation.
dipper

climber
Dec 5, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
klk wrote:

"i haven't heard anyone make a case for why my tax dollars should subsidize a commercial shellfishing operation."

And subsidize it you do. Lunny pays $2800 a year to the NPS plus another nominal fee to California Fish & Game (soon to be Fish & Wildlife) to run the oyster farm. That is $2800 per YEAR to run an operation that generates $1.5 million per year. Cheap labor, 9 dollars per hour for most of them.

It is pretty easy to see why Kevin changes his tune often and is fighting so very hard to keep this sweetheart deal.

He accuses the NPS of tearing apart the fabric of this rural community, when it is he who is doing just that by not abiding by the lease that he bought for a song.

Since the taxpayers of the US of A are subsidizing this operation, maybe everyone ought to stop by and ask for a sack of their oysters for their holiday dinner.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Dec 5, 2012 - 09:54pm PT
I don't think anyone has made a huge point here thatt our current NPS Park Superintendent of Yosemite, Don Neubacher, was formerly involved in this Oyster lease problem and in charge of that park unit. And of course we all wonder how competently....See here:

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/02/point-reyes-national-seashore-superintendent-promoted-yosemite-national-park5333

And when NPS/Neubacher decided to evaluate the situation from an EIR point of view rather than the simpler and strictly legal and national park policy position, controversy of course was engendered tremendously. See here:

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2009/05/national-research-council-report-blasts-park-service-report-oyster-farming-point-reyes-natio
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Dec 5, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
Gene...Good question about right to bid..As was mentioned, some leases are in perpetuity to the lessee with the NPS deciding whether or not to renew. I don't know if that's the case with the oyster farm.
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Feb 5, 2013 - 08:12pm PT

Federal judge upholds removal of Drakes Bay Oyster Co. from Point Reyes National Seashore

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-upholds-removal-calif-oyster-175904993.html

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 5, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
You folks are having a great debate. Thanks for mostly leaving the personal bullshit attacks out if it. In fact, anyone needing to resort to personal attacks anytime is only loudly and publicly announcing that they don't have any facts or the brains to support their position. Bluering, under the ocean, our knowledge is much more limited than above it. Going slow and preserving pieces of it, limiting mans impact in advance of making an error that may be found to later be irreversible, does what wrong exactly?


To Dipper. I have a question Mr Ouzel, is the 10' rope utilized to pull your boat over the mud flats at low tide? What's this mean?
Dipper said:
"be sure to have a 10 foot rope on the front and back of your boat."








klk, great post, however "commercial shellfishing is a non-conforming use, like asbestos mining or drilling for oil" is not a very good analogy.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 7, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
TODAYS NEWZ. Here's an ocean question which just arose that illustrates my point of a few days back that humans are fairly ignorant of undersea activity Bluering. What caused this?

http://www.outsideonline.com/news-from-the-field/Iceland-Investigates-Mass-Fish-Deaths.html


"Iceland has launched an investigation into the mass death of tens of thousands of wild herring. One newspaper estimated the value of the dead fish to be almost $10 million. This is the second such occurrence in Iceland’s Kolgrafafjordur fjord this winter, raising concerns about the country’s fisheries. Johann Sigurjonsson, director of Iceland's Marine Research Institute, believes that roughly an entire season’s worth of herring has been lost.

Researchers believe that low oxygen levels in the fjord, a result of overcrowding by the herring, may have caused the deaths. Government funding has been diverted toward monitoring the fisheries to determine what can be done to prevent more mass deaths.

Fortunately, we can take solace knowing that the fish will not have died in vain. Volunteers are already collecting the dead fish, which can be turned into feed for animals, and revenue from the sale will be donated to local schools."

Not just what caused it, but why wasn't the cause seen in advance? The brightest minds are only guessing at this time.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 27, 2013 - 11:17am PT
Drake's Bay Oyster Co. has received a three month reprieve.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/27/us/court-gives-drakes-bay-oyster-company-in-northern-california-a-reprieve.html?hpw

It turns out that they produce 40% of all the oysters consumed in California. No wonder they're so popular.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Feb 27, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
Thanks for that Jan. That changes picture somewhat, doesn't it. It is also quite fun, New Yorker cartoonesque, to think of oysters as a strategic resource that could actually trump conventional law. It might well be that booting them out is just silly, priggish even, considering their v. small net effect on the site.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 27, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
I have a hard time being on the side of the NPS on this one. This company has operated for decades and folks are used to it being there. Provides jobs which should not be marginalized for the real importance they are.

Does not seem to be any indication of serious negative environmental impact or enjoyment of the area for recreation.

What is the point of closing it?

In the end I could care less about the politics of the issue. The only thing that matters to me is that this is a proven sustainable low impact industry that provides a living for real people without hurting other uses.

Win win for everything.. what more could you ask for? Politicians are supposed work for us and our interests ie to look for and support exactly these type of setups.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 27, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
I haven't read the whole thread, yet, but so far...

Has that son a of a bitch, Salazar, or anybody, seen Drake's Bay?

And then the next post by QINTL shows Bluey, wrong as usual. Surprise, surprise, as Gomer Pyle would say.

BTW I am not Gomer Pyle, and Bluey's BS never surprises me.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 27, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
Who do you think really has a more intense interest in keeping the bay clean?

The guy who's livelyhood depends on it,

or the beaurocrat in an office 2,000 miles away who can never be fired?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 27, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
Couch: Not just what caused it, but why wasn't the cause seen in advance? The brightest minds are only guessing at this time.

Fishery collapses and fish die-offs (including Herring and other small schooling fish such as anchovies and sardines) have happening over time and around the globe and are not a new phenomena, though the scale and site can often be a surprise. As to the causes, they are generally attributed to lack of oxygen, well-dispersed chemicals with a surfactant properties, and toxic algae blooms. In the case of Iceland, which is highly geologically active both on land and in the sea, it's possible other transient water chemistry issues were involved. But you're right, in many instances a definitive answer is lacking and we can only guess unless they are the result of toxic algae blooms in which case the cause is usually fairly easily determined.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 7, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
I have a hard time being on the side of the NPS on this one. This company has operated for decades and folks are used to it being there. Provides jobs which should not be marginalized for the real importance they are.

Does not seem to be any indication of serious negative environmental impact or enjoyment of the area for recreation.

What is the point of closing it?

In the end I could care less about the politics of the issue. The only thing that matters to me is that this is a proven sustainable low impact industry that provides a living for real people without hurting other uses.

Win win for everything.. what more could you ask for? Politicians are supposed work for us and our interests ie to look for and support exactly these type of setups.


That's my point, really. Drakes Bay is fine, and the company operates in a sustainable manner. WTF is the problem????

I have a feeling special interests, Enviro-Nazis, are involved. And it's a damn shame to see this sh#t go on.

You may bitch about lobbyists, and whatever, well the enviro-nuts have their own branch too.

California loses on this decision. Jobs and oysters.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Mar 7, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
That is my opinion as well. I think the oyster company should prevail in their effort to remain. I don't know exactly how that would take place of course but to read them the letter of the law is an inadequate response on the part of the Feds. There are so many similar "legacy" operations world wide, humbly nibbling on the mere edges of large public domains, to boot our oystermen seems draconian, rigid, blind even, to me.
krahmes

Social climber
Stumptown
Mar 14, 2013 - 02:03am PT
The NGO environmental hierarchies that dominate one axis of modern political American West talk a good game about things like local economies of scale, permaculture and sustainable economies; but in the end all I see is end game politics and the same ole same ole NPS bureaucracy of command and control to protect what the deem is their institutional interest; even where 55 years ago they didn’t even have one at this place.

Interesting to put this in perspective of sequestration and the yearly Bernanke Bill of $7,478,000 needed to run the Point Reyes NS even after the dreaded Sequester cuts.

So 30 people of what I assume are 1st and 2nd generation la rasa Americans lose a job and a good way/place of life and we West Coasters lose a tax base from a food security industry. In the place of a food producing industry (and delicious oysters) the NPS and NGO’s give primacy to the recreational equipment industry complex making sure the neo-colonist with their hydrocarbon boats and $300 car racks get the solitude and smug sense of cluelessness that only comes with the new arrivals lack of understanding that ghost dance is talkin about them too.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Apr 9, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
According to the New York Times, "Oyster Farmer Caught Up in Pipeline Politics", the Drake's Bay cause has now been tucked onto a Republican Energy bill and tied to the Keystone pipeline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/10/us/public-land-battle-over-drakes-bay-oyster-draws-unlikely-allies.html?hpw

Pretty amazing for such a small mom and pop operation.
Gene

climber
Apr 9, 2013 - 08:38pm PT
According to the New York Times, "Oyster Farmer Caught Up in Pipeline Politics", the Drake's Bay cause has now been tucked onto a Republican Energy bill and tied to the Keystone pipeline.


Oh, shuck it all! How do we get these guys to clam up? Will they ever stop trying to use political mussel?

Sorry. I'm feeling crabby.
g
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
May 30, 2013 - 08:22pm PT
Jared Huffman was on KQED's Forum yesterday (5/29/13) and talked about how DBOC is part of a bill designed to open up all sorts of ag in questionable areas and that DBOC is being used for a much larger scheme. Seems like DBOC is getting bad press it didn't bargain for and some of it's supporters are turning against them. Have to be careful when big politics get involved.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 30, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
DBOC is good for california. Especially in a time of declining business.

This is typical cal politics (like Chicago) forcing biz out. Lame. The State legislature is out of control.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 30, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
Got any other broken records???

DMT

Are you assuming all fisherman just rape the waters, like the Japanese? Drakes was pretty kind to the environment, they had to be!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 30, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
The way things are going with [edit] Feinstein and Boxer, and our STate legislature, commercial fishing will disappear from our coast. Local fisherman aren't the problem!

It's the Asian Fisherman who have over-harvested their waters! Why do you think there are so many abalone poachers. Sturgeon poachers in the delta by russians?

They don't obey the laws, American fisherman do!

Our state is picking on the legal fisherman. Much like the gun laws.
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
May 31, 2013 - 12:59am PT
Boot'em, they made a bad investment and tried to change a clear contract...
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 31, 2013 - 01:14am PT
Blue
Is that the example you want your son to refer to when addressing your wife?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Sep 3, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
Appeal denied.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Appeals-court-deals-blow-to-Drakes-Bay-Oyster-Co-4783375.php
dirtbag

climber
Sep 3, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
Oh well. That's what happens when you run a farm in a wilderness area. They were warned.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 3, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Wilderness, my ass. There hasn't been any wilderness anywhere in California for 100 years
except in the minds of Park/Forest Service lawyers.
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Sep 3, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
I think being tied to Cause of Action and being tagged on as a rider to a pro pipeline bill really screwed them. I was on the fence because, although not 'wilderness' per say, the bay is one of the few gems left on this coast. But having locally grown oysters was nice as well. Lunny will not suffer by the way. He's owned a successful construction company years before he got into the oyster business. Hopefully he can provide work for the displaced after getting them involved in a business with a short shelf life that he knowingly entered the workers into.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 3, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
Reilly, not wilderness in the sense of untrodden, untouched land. The protection provided deignated "Wilderness Areas" is the least we can do to afford protection from the most rapacious among us.
We need MORE areas deignated as wilderness....many more.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 3, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
Jim, I'm not saying we don't need more protected areas. I just take issue
with arbitrary and capricious definitions. Pt Reyes is no more wild than
the rest of coast north to the Canadian border, for the most part. Growing
a few oysters wasn't hurting its 'wildness' and certainly doesn't deter
hoards of mini-vans from descending upon the place every weekend. In many
parts of the world equally 'wild' places are managed with an eye towards
reality if that means letting a few people have jobs in a relatively environmentally
benign manner.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 3, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
I know little about the issue and will defer to you. Regarding other areas of the world.....in most, "protected areas" are that in name only.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 3, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
After living in the area for several years & spending tons of time between Point Reyes & The Russian River I don't get what all the fuss is all about, their contract was up, it was & is time to move on.
lars johansen

Trad climber
West Marin, CA
Sep 3, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
A lot of people share your sentiment locally Reilly. There are quite a few signs in yards to that effect. On the other hand, there is an equally strong quiet opposition. Point Reyes Oyster Company knew they had a closed end lease going into it. Drakes Estero, the location of DBOC, is relatively pristine and devoid of typical coastal development. The thinking of park planners is to create as close as possible the eco structure of a pristine natural environment. There are places of the Estero Trail where you see no man made structures and one can imagine a prehistoric past. In the larger picture this is more than about a few local jobs.

By the way I live just a few miles from the park.

Best

lars
couchmaster

climber
Jul 1, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
NO Oysters...DENIED! Here's a link to the current status of the farm. http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Point-Reyes-oyster-farm-denied-Supreme-Court-5589634.php





Or as earlier depicted with singing material:




krahmes

Social climber
Stumptown
Oct 25, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
I know it is a done deal but when I saw this photo on reddit, I thought of this thread:

Here's the reddit link:
http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2kb55b/the_water_in_both_tanks_is_from_the_same_time_and/
couchmaster

climber
Jan 20, 2015 - 08:58am PT
Joe, what is that a photo of? Your post only shows some construction equipment and no words.....


nevermind: found it. Titled " Drakes Bay Oyster Co. dismantled to return farm site to nature" link here for full story: http://www.marinij.com/marinnews/ci_27336369/drakes-bay-oyster-co-dismantled-return-farm-site

CA.Timothy

climber
California
Jan 20, 2015 - 09:50am PT
Glad the infrastructure is coming down fast.


Other than sentimental arguments, I have not heard a single one that trumps the fact the DBOC was a commercial operation, operating in wilderness. It sets a bad president.


Let Americans 50 years from now decide if the right decision was made...

c wilmot

climber
Jan 20, 2015 - 10:36am PT
While some paddle boarders will be thrilled with this removal, that newly empty lot on a deserted dead end road will be full of dumped trash, old tires, and used washing machines etc in no time. Environmentalism gone awry
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 20, 2015 - 10:41am PT
I wonder how many truck loads went to the dump.
And I bet the newly unemployed had a great Christmas.
I bet they're gonna vote Republican from now on.
CA.Timothy

climber
California
Jan 20, 2015 - 11:02am PT
pretty sure the employees were aware that the farm and their jobs were in jeopardy for about a year and a half prior to closing. Why speculate as to how their holiday was?

As for the empty lot becoming a trash depository, I highly doubt it. Sounds like you dont know the area very well. Lets wait and see.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 20, 2015 - 11:09am PT
Golden Gate Natl. Recreation Area Fees:

Most Areas of this 80,000 acre area are
FREE !!!

It's one thing to have small / urban sections in the city free, but the entire huge natural areas?
such as the Entire Marin Headlands area !! @#$%^&*

This kind of giveaway to the richest people of the state is typical for California.
Most other National Rec. Areas have fees, despite being far cheaper to operate.
Such as tiny Cabrillo Monument in San Diego.

http://www.nps.gov/goga/planyourvisit/fees.htm

I should make a new thread about all the bullcrepe which is California.
CA.Timothy

climber
California
Jan 20, 2015 - 11:18am PT
I love the fact that there are no fees for much of Golden Gate. Where would you collect them? Fees dont really have anything to due with the operating budget of a park.

I hardly consider that fact that most of GG is free to be a concession to the rich.

And when I worked at Cabrillo, I used to love hearing people bitch about the $5 fee! Especially old Navy vets who were strolling down memory lane while on vacation in San Diego.

"What do you mean $5? I guess my service to this country was not enough!"

EDIT: Cabrillo is going up to $10 soon Splater
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 20, 2015 - 11:44am PT
Why do you think 100 acre Cabrillo should have a fee and 80,000 acre Golden Gate/Marin should be free? I already said it would be too hard to collect fees in the urban areas, but that excuse does not apply to anything over 100 acres in Marin, using the Cabrillo logic.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 21, 2015 - 07:50am PT
Why speculate as to how their holiday was?

Cause I knew it would bunch up yer knickers.
And would you like fries with that or would you rather they eat cake?
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 21, 2015 - 08:13am PT
My, how times have changed.

Decades ago people were excited by the prospect of new Wilderness designations.

Now people are lamenting the loss of jobs that a Wilderness designation would cause. Obviously, these people have either been watching too much South Park or they've been captured by the Siren's song of the G.O.P.

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
GuapoVino

climber
Jan 21, 2015 - 09:03am PT
When Lunny realized his gamble to buy the doomed lease wasn't going to pay off he should have sold it to Cliven Bundy. This is kind of Bundy's area of expertise. Bundy could have shown up with his militia misfits and claimed to be the victim of an over-reaching tyrannical federal bureaucracy.

This kind of reminds me of North Padre Island, which once was a cattle ranch but that was phased out and now its a 60 mile long National Seashore.

http://www.nps.gov/pais/historyculture/index.htm
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 21, 2015 - 09:14am PT
Guapo, that was a business decision, it's much better to go out kicking and screaming.

SLR, if it were really wilderness. Why doesn't the fork-tongued Park
Service do anything to stop the Navy from using SEKI as their China Lake
adjunct? Oh, I forgot, because F-18's screaming overhead every hour isn't
addressed by 'wilderness definitions'.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 21, 2015 - 10:17am PT
Why doesn't the fork-tongued Park Service do anything to stop the Navy from using SEKI as their China Lake adjunct?
excellent question
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Jan 21, 2015 - 11:37am PT
This place is special in that it's one of the few largely pristine estuaries left on the coast near a large urban area. I just left west marin after 53 years and growth has been exponential and the pressures on the GGNRA have grown exponentially as well. The oyster farm didn't have a large impact on the estero but the estero is unique and Lunny new what he was getting into. Glad it's gone and the park will do right in this instance of rehabitating the area.
c wilmot

climber
Jan 21, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
As for the empty lot becoming a trash depository, I highly doubt it. Sounds like you dont know the area very well. Lets wait and see.


Umm I have been there plenty- is it not a dead end isolated dirt road? I have been on PLENTY of government waste pick up crews that dealt with trash dumps that had the EXACT kind of locale this does. give a few months and we will see who is right
lars johansen

Trad climber
West Marin, CA
Jan 21, 2015 - 01:57pm PT
I live in West Marin. In spite of all the noise to "save" the oyster company there are plenty of residents who favor the removal of same. It's wonderful to hike near the estero and imagine what Drake saw when he arrived. I won't miss seeing any commercial development there.
lars
couchmaster

climber
Jan 30, 2015 - 05:43am PT
"imagine what Drake saw when he arrived. "

It's been said that Drake never saw it and it wasn't Drakes landing spot at all. Secrecy led to the misconception it is said. I'm sure that HAD Drake landed there, which he appears to not have done (according to some), he could have had an entertaining evening eating seafood with the local inhabitants whom to this day (although chased out of that area long since) are still called "Indians" due to them being believed to be living in a country called India. (Not by Drake who mostly refers to them in his writings as natives). It has since been learned, interestingly, that they did not live in "India" at all and had never seen that country.


http://nwpr.org/post/oregon-history-buffs-dismiss-californias-drake-landmark

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 30, 2015 - 08:36am PT
It's wonderful to hike near the estero and imagine what Drake saw when he arrived.

By that logic then San Francisco Bay should be cleansed of commercial interests.

As to whether Drake landed there or not it seems clear that we will never know.
It isn't a great anchorage although, to coin a phrase, any port in a storm,
as long as that storm isn't a sou'wester. It would have done for a one
night stand but without good water there I wouldn't have stayed long.
But we digress, enjoyably.
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