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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Aug 14, 2016 - 10:57am PT
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I had heard of that group, but until I friend sent me that Rolling Stone article, I had no idea how freaking weird those guys are. Adults having sex with minors is a heinous crime, and they were doing it regularly.
Back to the Oregon standoff, the guy who was killed, Lavoy Finicum has a wiki page. I had read before that his main income source was from taking in foster children, I had no idea how many. He was making a living from state payments. It was an ongoing affair. A way to soak the state and live off of the government titty. Odd for an anti-government guy like him:
Finicum operated a cattle ranch and foster home near Chino Valley, Arizona.[9] He filed for bankruptcy in 2002.[10]
By their estimate, the Finicums were foster parents to more than 50 boys in the past decade. Due to Finicum's involvement with the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, all four children that were in their foster care were removed from their home by a social worker between January 4 and January 9. Finicum stated that this took away his and his wife's main source of income. That represented an enormous loss of income for the Finicums. According to a 2010 tax filing, Catholic Charities Community Services in Arizona paid the family US$115,343 to foster children in 2009.[11]
About a year after joining the Bundy standoff, Finicum ceased complying with the terms of his grazing permit with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). He would eventually accrue more than US$12,000 in fees and fines.[12]
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Hell no! Jail slippers and bright assed pre-trial draperies for the seditionists.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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No pointy boots for the Keystone Kowboys!!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
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The trial of Ammo Bundy and his merry band of deplorables is underway. Jury picked and opening statements in progress
read from the bottom up
Updates:
Maxine Bernstein @maxoregonian 2m2 minutes ago
Lunch break now; Ryan Bundy will give opening argument when resumes at 1 pm
Maxine Bernstein @maxoregonian 2m2 minutes ago
Ryan Bundy asked to hand out pocket Constitutions to all jurors; judge told him he may not; she instructs them in law
Maxine Bernstein @maxoregonian 3m3 minutes ago
Mumford: 'Only one side of this .shot somebody, and it wasn't Mr. Bundy. Mr Bundy complied with the law. THe
Maxine Bernstein @maxoregonian 5m5 minutes ago
Mumford: 'How much longer does a people have to be acted upon before they get to act?'
Maxine Bernstein @maxoregonian 6m6 minutes ago
Judge interjected 2x during Mumford's opening, reminding jurors that Ad. Possession is not being litigated,
Conrad Wilson @conradjwilson 6m6 minutes ago
Mumford said Bundy was acting under the laws of adverse possession -- that was Bundy's state of mind
Maxine Bernstein @maxoregonian 7m7 minutes ago
Mumford: A. Bundy's intent was to restore the rights to the people;he didn't threaten Sheriff Ward he contends
Conrad Wilson @conradjwilson 7m7 minutes ago
In opening statements, Marcus Mumford, Ammon Bundy's attorney, said his client was standing up to the federal government
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Sep 13, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
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I wonder what the price tag(the whole shebang, law enforcement, legal, subsidies, etc. etc) of this whole cowpoke venture is going to be to the taxpayers and locals at all levels? I haven't seen a tally yet.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 13, 2016 - 09:13pm PT
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The court also heard about adverse possession — essentially taking over land and acting like it’s your own so it legally becomes yours. Mumford presented this legal doctrine as the main defense of Bundy’s actions, saying Bundy thought he was employing that method on the refuge.
Arguing adverse possession? These guys are sunk.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 13, 2016 - 10:40pm PT
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adverse possession
Well, shoot, maybe if I humped enough supplies back up into in Black Velvet Canyon and camped out long enough I could eventually own the place. And who knows, maybe this is the true intent behind PTPP's epic wall occupations.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 14, 2016 - 05:27am PT
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Sure thing! Maybe you'd like to live in Beverly Hills? Just find a mansion, barge in with guns bristling, kick out the occupants and claim adverse possession!
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Sep 14, 2016 - 06:11am PT
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Or you could save yourself the trouble and just sign that petition going around to force Weyerhauser to allow people to trespass on their private land.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 14, 2016 - 07:50am PT
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^^ That's not adverse possession, either.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 14, 2016 - 08:40am PT
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It seems that Weyerhauser is already allowing the utilization of land it has title to (another matter), what is being sought is reduced fees, right?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Sep 14, 2016 - 08:51am PT
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By the same token, the Federal government is allowing the utilization and I'm looking for reduced "fees" as well.....
But no that was not the premise of the Weyerhauser thread in any event...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 14, 2016 - 09:26am PT
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Sure it was . Some climber didn't want to have to pay $350 to play.
And, Bundy and his cohorts want to utilize and not pay.
I have no idea what the Oregon dudes wanted. I seriously doubt that they do either.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Sep 14, 2016 - 09:29am PT
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No, it wasn't. Because then the title of the thread wouldn't have been:
Weyerhaeuser charging to use public land in OR!!!
But, whatever....
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 14, 2016 - 09:39am PT
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The guy may have improperly believed it was public land, but all the same what he was complaining about was fees.
I recently moved back to Oregon after a 10 year hiatus and have been very concerned about the current situation on many of the public lands in Oregon where Weyerhaeuser has logging operations. All access now requires a recreation access permit . Permits are sold on-line only at wyrecreation.com for $350.00. Access is 7 days per week for climbing, hiking, driving, hunting, fishing etc. and personal firewood and personal mushroom and berry picking.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2016 - 09:57am PT
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The original goal was to free the Hammonds, the arsonists who lived in Harney county. That plan fizzled when the locals basically told the Pooptriots to FOAD. The plan morphed into a range war in which the state (led by sheriff Dave Ward) take over public lands under the theory that the Federal government can not own any land except 10 square miles in Washington. Dave Ward told them to FOAD. The sheriff in the adjoining county started playing footsies with the Bundys, a meeting was arranged and on the way to the meeting TarpMan committed suicide by cop.
Adverse possession became the cause du jour when real lawyers told them that their other theories were ridiculous. The smart guys copped a plea.
edit:
We need trekking and right-to-pass laws here in the US that echo what they did in Great Britain, particularly in the eastern half of the U.S.
I spent some time up in New Hampshire (White Mountains) this summer and the access issues there make me appreciate the west a lot more. Everything out there seems to be privatized
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Sep 14, 2016 - 10:16am PT
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We need trekking and right-to-pass laws here in the US that echo what they did in Great Britain, particularly in the eastern half of the U.S.
Oh yes, better yet let's just finish the job and take away any and all private landowner rights. Eh, Comrade?
Good grief.
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