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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 29, 2016 - 07:24am PT
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Chickenshit breeders. . . .
And you're a badass Dean, behind a keyboard
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 29, 2016 - 07:32am PT
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Everyone makes decisions to maximize benefits to oneself
That's using the entirely unwarranted premise that everyone makes rational decisions.
If that was even remotely true this world wouldn't be the way it is.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Jun 29, 2016 - 07:40am PT
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1st rule of economics: Everyone makes decisions to maximize benefits to oneself
Heh, that's why economics is wrong so often. This rule is misguided.
I recommend reading Ariely's Predictably Irrational for starters. A pleasant read.
No, it still comes back to that instant where the decision is enacted. At that snapshot in time (e.g. jumping off the side of a cliff, etc.) is the moment when that action was the best choice for that person.
The corollary to the first rule of economics is: There is no such thing as true altruism. The benefit that one receives through generous behavior is in the form of 'good feelings'. Just the title of the book you referenced negates your premise.
Of course plans are formulated and then acted upon. However, the final decision to commit, that's a distinct 1st rule example.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Jun 29, 2016 - 07:53am PT
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Those who are defending BASE are wrong. It is 100% Russian roulette. Comparing to drunk driving injuries or motorcycle accidents is just pure BS. Those are accident, like falling off a roof, drowning in surf, eaten by crocs, blown up by terrorists in Istanbul- an apples to olives analogy.
BASE is all high speed and technology dependent- two variables that exponentially increase the hazard potential. A lot of climbing allows one to back off. Hard aid is kinda limited, but still you could drill a hole. Free soloing can be reversed. Alpine climbing, sometimes you bail or traverse off. BASE is it, and you have a 2 minute flight of life or death. In some respects hard white water is the same.
We have only so many days on this planet. If you introduce kids into it as a genetic donor you must put them in front of you for their survival. Economically you have to provide. Parentally, you must be there to help them with survival skills.
I still step out on the sharp end climbing dirty clods but push within my limits because I must make it back for my kids. If your choice is to continue with roulette like stunts you should get fixed and insure you don’t leave your progeny alone.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:01am PT
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The many children left behind pay way too much for their parent's need for this adventure.
Having children is a life long responsibility.
Don't want that? Don't have kids.
Before there's too much hand-wringing over the family we've got to realize the family knew what Chris did full well and accepted those risks. He made full disclosure videos of his accomplishments. His wife could have divorced him and found a more mainstream companion, but she didn't.
Just because I, or you, might not think such risks are acceptable for a father of young children does not mean what he did was 'wrong'. Believe it or not, his family will continue on after the wounds have healed a bit.
Plenty of fathers choose to go to war, choose to fly jets, choose to land on the moon, choose to die a slow death from obesity on the couch.
Honesty and making choices openly are what it's about even though they may bring pain in the short-term.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:09am PT
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I came of age living in Olympic Valley and North Lake Tahoe. Probably the highest concentration of adventure sports athletes this side of Cham. I boated with badasses, and tagged along on some BASE stuff. Never jumped.
So, BASE jumping was no big deal, I felt like a pussy for not joining in when invited.
When Shane died, it changed my whole perspective. IMO, if you've got a kid and are rolling the dice like that, regularly upping the radness while narrowing your safety margins, something has to change. I wish it were a self realization rather than a death.
If you're single, in you're prime, and pushing the envelope with nobody to affect besides your friends and family, well, go for it I guess.
When you've got a wife and children, it's time to scale it back. It's so difficult to come to the realization that what you're doing is possibly unsustainable, but it's the right one to arrive at, again, in my opinion.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:15am PT
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I still step out on the sharp end climbing dirty clods but push within my limits because I must make it back for my kids.
I wasn't comparing BASE to riding a bike on a street. I'm saying as parents, we all need to decide for ourselves the level of risk we assume, and how the consequences of those decisions effect our families. The dad on the couch would likely judge your climbing dirt clods as outrageously irresponsible. I don't.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:33am PT
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Ha! A bunch of climbers talking about how selfish base jumper are.
Actually not that many calling them selfish. One's perspective does change though. I noticed a real difference in my climbing after I had kids. But climbing allows me to do things in a more reserved fashion, so to speak. I still climb, but I don't free solo, I don't run it out far and wide, and I can back off if the weather rolls in.
"Chickenshit breeders" is the most worthless comment on the whole thread so far. Coming from a soft porn photographer no less....
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:37am PT
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First rule of Flight Club...don't have kids
vvvvvvvv Waaay higher
edited to reflect agreement with mr. donini
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WanderlustMD
Trad climber
New England
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:40am PT
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The many children left behind pay way too much for their parent's need for this adventure.
You can say the same thing about climbing. Accidents happen. Yes, BASE has a higher rate of death but the driving spirit behind the sport is not that much different than climbing.
Of course, I agree with your point about the children. Absolutely!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:46am PT
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When talking about degee of risk base has to be differentiated from close proximity base.
There is also a HUGE risk difference in climbing between sport climbing and state of the art alpinism.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:51am PT
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The comparison of proximity jumping in a squirrel suit to riding a bike showcases the level of cognitive ability and logic we're working with on the ole Taco. *Slow Clap*
You know Burch, most of your 5,000,000 posts on ST show only that you are a cynical, sarcastic, opportunistic person with the maturity level of a middle school kid. Now, you're trying to convince us that you're a serious adult in this discussion. Good luck with your evolution towards that worthy goal, especially since you are apparently a new dad, but I find your comment about cognitive ability to be laughable. If there is one person on this entire forum who is a tool, it would be you.
Speaking of cognitive ability, or more accurately reading comprehension, I said I wasn't comparing Base to riding a bike.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Jun 29, 2016 - 08:57am PT
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donini,
if your chute does not open you bounce, end of story.
close prox base or not you are packed in.
I think in alpine climbing you actually can get a little better and survive with experience.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Jun 29, 2016 - 09:28am PT
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Take a moment and absorb, I know I'm moving fast. You're just another bozo in a long line of folks that don't like hearing me lay out the way things are if it conflicts with their opinion.
Ha, ha, ha. Even though you obviously haven't experienced it just yet, I think you'll find that parenting is the most humbling experience of all. It's all good. Just a part of the journey, I suppose.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 29, 2016 - 10:40am PT
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from the article posted above
"Love is the greatest risk you can take in life." - Jennifer Lowe-Anker
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Jun 29, 2016 - 10:42am PT
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Sounds like a chick
vvvvvvvv maybe this time you will get incoriated
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Jun 29, 2016 - 11:29am PT
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Mike, I f*#ked up. When my left high hand slipped in a jam i readjusted both at same time, then kicked myself clear like a lead fall. I had no kids at that time, no wife, hell no girlfriend.
I have since soloed some and backed down more than a few times.
The proximity BASE thing is identical to aerobatic flying. My friend Tim told me a story 18 years ago of his flying buddy coming in inverted for a 50' fly over. He watched and saw a bobble in stick movement and lost control, killing the pilot instantly and leaving a wife and son at home. He said that when flying inverted you must remember always that controls are opposite and he saw the moment in time that the pilot fooked up.
...Tim was keeping the tail of the plane for the pilot son's upcoming 18th birthday, a WWI tradition he was carrying on.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jun 29, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
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I am with Tami......
When I was 45, married with 2 young ones at home, I almost killed myself climbing... going fast trying to beat a big incomming storm... when I missed getting both strands into the device. The strand I got was the good one and the knot pulled up and stopped me from oblivion.... Kris too cause he would have been up hi in a very lonely place with out a rap line.
Did I stop climbing?
Hell no.
While working on the Stoney Point Documentary we interviewed the late Glen Dawson. We spent a long afternoon talking about many things, including death. Glen quit climbing shortly after his best friend, Jones, died in 1939 climbing in the wind rivers. The part that really cemented his decision was the fact that Jones left behind his pregnant wife.
Glen said the real tragedy was the widow and orphan.
This most recent event should cause one to pause and think about these sports we do.
One can not and should not judge how others behave faced with the consequences of our actions.
We ALL take risks, everyday.
To start up with the "irresponsible game" is quite stupid and serves no real purpose other than to hear your own voice.
After all, this is the Taco, we (well most)have all pushed over the line at some point and most of us will continue to push, because its in our nature, it's who we are.
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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Jun 29, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
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50 posts before mine and only ONE person who has participated in jumping. Brandon.AKA Gray Ghost
Whats the cost of Free Soloing? Climbing? Horseback Riding? Race Car Driving?
Ya'all sound as silly with your comments just as someone who can see telling a blind person what it's like to be blind. You have NO IDEA what it's like to be blind if you've seen all your life.
H
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