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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Jun 29, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
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50 posts before mine and only ONE person who has participated in jumping. Brandon.AKA Gray Ghost
Whats the cost of Free Soloing? Climbing? Horseback Riding? Race Car Driving?
Ya'all sound as silly with your comments just as someone who can see telling a blind person what it's like to be blind. You have NO IDEA what it's like to be blind if you've seen all your life.
H
Hey, Gayguyzenburg, reading comp guy, from Brandon
I came of age living in Olympic Valley and North Lake Tahoe. Probably the highest concentration of adventure sports athletes this side of Cham. I boated with badasses, and tagged along on some BASE stuff. Never jumped.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 29, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
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I think you have me confused with someone else. I've never jumped, though I've been around it.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Jun 29, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
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^^^^^^^ awwww Gayzenberg deleted
Nope not flip-flop he's probably on his way over to your house right now
As far as being a dick head I should probably take that to heart coming from you
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Jun 29, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
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Personally I don't care what sort of extreme activities someone chooses to participate in as long as I don't see a damn GoFundMe every time they screw up. If you choose to have a family I believe YOU need to make sure you have your financial responsibilities COVERED. After that, it's between you and your spouse, or maybe just you and your kiddos. Buy life insurance and do what you please. It's not my business.
I really, really don't understand adult people who think it's OK to be 4 or 5 paychecks away from family disaster.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jun 29, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
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"The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time."
Mark Twain
I coached Youth Football and a High School surf team for 10 years. I was stunned by how many families are slowly dying from the inside out because both parents are slaves to demanding and lucrative career's.
Their kids of course, had everything, with the exception of what they really needed to be happy and healthy.
Define selfish...
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jun 29, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
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I used to do some free soloing before having kids. It was a blast. Now I use a silent partner for solo climbing. It is a pain but I would never consider free soloing (well maybe the odd 5.6 or so)
Personal decision.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 29, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
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Heisenberg....the blind person analogy was a stretch. I concur that no one who has not jumped in a wingsuit can comment on what it's like to do so. That doesn't mean they can't comment on raw statistics that seem to indicate that an inordinately high number of expert close proximity jumpers have lost their lives in recent years.....apples and oranges.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jun 29, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
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I have done freefall and regular military jumping.
I have free soloed up to mid 5.10 and done lots of scary things at lower grades.
After having children my desire to do such things changed. I have no desire to proximity fly or stand in line on Everest. That's all I can say, it's personal. I don't waste energy hating on those that do it.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jun 29, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
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Well, not actually participating in it does matter. You guys are assessing the risk without understanding the factors behind the risk.
You don't understand the gear, you don't understand the technique, you don't understand how it feels, so you don't understand the risk. Not all jumps are equal, and experience allows you to assess risk every time you do it. I've climbed 1500 foot antennas, then the wind changed, and I climbed right back down. I've also done the same huge sucker 3 times in one night, packing in the dark and climbing the ladder.
I was still jumping stuff after my son was born. Then I had a kinda close call and decided to give it up. I'd never really been afraid before. Suddenly I was. I was afraid for or because of, my little boy. Some people react differently, and keep on doing it. Looking back, I wish that I had at the least kept on skydiving, but it is a really expensive hobby. I had to pay the bills, so I sold my gear and quit. At the time, I was in the top ten in the world in just numbers.
Right now, normal old BASE off of normal old objects, is pretty darn safe. Almost all of the deaths are happening to the wingsuiters, who are doing something totally different. To be a good flyer requires tons of experience. Normal, plain old BASE off of buildings and cliffs isn't that bad these days. If Hankster still posted here, he would tell you that. He has probably jumped something this week already.
In my day, it was very new, and we were figuring out the gear part as we went along. Now there are manufacturers of BASE specific canopies and containers, and it is pretty rare for an experienced jumper to die on a non-wingsuit jump. When I was into it, there were maybe 25 hard core jumpers in the whole world. Now there are thousands, and every day they are probably doing 100 or more jumps, without incident. Even the wingsuiters have thousands of flights. Some of them are just pushing it so close, though.
A guy jumped the potato bridge 200 times in 24 hours. In Malaysia, there were 8000 building jumps without a hitch. It was an invite-only affair, so it was all experienced jumpers every year. The one year that the locals organized it, there was a fatality. So experience means a lot. All 3 of the fatalities from El Cap were inexperienced jumpers. Even Jan Smith, who died on that protest jump, wasn't very experienced. She was way more of a skydiver. I had skydived with her. She had done BASE jumps, but how she died was stupid. She couldn't find her pilot chute, because it was a different rig. Even that is now standardized on all containers.
It is a lot less dangerous than Donini on Latok, or even climbing in Chamonix, where someone dies almost every day during the summer. I've done both, so trust me. Straight up rock climbing isn't that bad.
Having a kid totally changed how I perceived risk. So I toned it down a little, but still had adventures. I miss it, though. To get back into it is just insanely expensive.
Want to know what it feels like to jump El Cap?
Fully present. Wide awake. Calm. Time slows down,
You only get about 10 seconds of freefall off of El Cap with street clothes. Imagine that feeling stretching out into minutes, and then you will understand what the wingsuiters must be feeling.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jun 29, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
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Hah.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 29, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
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Now, now what's this assessing the risk on Latok without having been there....shameless, I say, shameless.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Jun 29, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
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I think many here do things that probably seem like total madness to the general public that seem pretty safe to us. If you read the comments section of an article about someone getting lost in the woods hiking many people rant about how even hiking is unacceptably risky.
I have no idea if base jumping is exponentially more dangerous than other activities. Even if it is people have to make their own decisions.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jun 29, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
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Base 104 is an old couch potato and an irresponsible idiot.
Hey F*#kface, you don't understand statistics.
I'm going to make a point of encouraging your kid to take up proximity flying. Tell him what a big old hero you were to everyone cool.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 29, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
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Assessing our own risk? We do that every day.
Base104 is not an old couch potato. He has been there, done that more than you know. Old, sort of :D
edit: flop, you live up to your moniker. Base is a friend. Been drinking? Woke up on the wrong side of the bed? Don't go attacking peoples children.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 29, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
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Base 104 is cool, I was pulling his trigger.....although he did show some inconsistent logic, don't we all.
There is a difference between knowing what a hazardous activity is really like and being able to access it's relative risk. To know is to participate to access is to look at the numbers.
I don't look at the numbers when I contemplate a new adventure in extreme alpinism, I look at my planning and preparation, but I get some comfort from the numbers based fact that alpinism is statistically safer than it was a couple of decades ago.
I suppose that close proximity base is at the point now that extreme alpinism was twenty or thirty and more years ago when the fatality rate was extremely high. It will likely follow the same path towards a more acceptable level of risk....whatever that is?
I find myself using the term extreme alpinism to differentiate it from the Supertopo definition of alpine that includes sunny rock climbs above treeline.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 29, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
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About as meaningful as a fart in Newark.
Made me laugh out loud.
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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Jun 29, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
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Most of you.... limited few are no different than the people at the bridge of el cap
" ya'll pound those spikes things in the rock there?"
" How you get the rope up there? There some kinda bolt gun like in Die hard y'all use"?
Explain how they are different from your comments? They are as clueless about climbing as this forum is about BASE.
" my cousin does some rock climbing.... he's a rappell'r and does some crazy sh#t back in mississippi"
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 29, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
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Base 104 is cool, I was pulling his trigger
Jim, I'm sure he got it.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 29, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
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The idea that it is ok to bring children into this world then burden your spouse with raising them alone because you needed one more rush is selfish. - Opinion
The children you bring into this world are your responsibility. - Fact
Wether it's underwater cave diving, wingsuit flying, motorcycle roadracing or free soloing makes little difference.
You are risking your children's well being every time you choose to engage in these activities.
To argue proximity flying is as risky as roped climbing or motorcycle riding is ludicrous.
The children you are responsible for deserve to have you be there when they need you. They deserve to have someone to lean on. Someone that loves them unconditionally. Some one they know will never leave them intentionally. It is extremely important for your children to know you are there for them as they deal with all the trials of growing up.
As a parent I have reeled in many of my more dangerous activities because I am a parent.
Assessing risk as a parent is a constant.
I posted these thoughts on this separate thread in respect of the deceased.
It saddens me to think of what his family must be going through.
He looked like a good man.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 29, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
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Who gives a turnpike, but that's one high toll to pay to BASE.
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