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DixieGal
Trad climber
NC
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I think it is fair to say that Growing Up has irrevocably
tarnished the reputations of the principal two people that
performed this construction job.
The construction crew (Sean, Doug et al) will say that they
didn't climb this route to enhance their reputations, but I
have a tough time stomaching such a statement.
Although the route does not affect me directly (I am not good
enough to climb such a gymnastically difficult route), I have
formed some negative impressions about the construction crew.
In my mind, there are basically two types of climbers.
TYPE A, THE GOOD ONES: Many well known climbers are
unquestionably in this category (certainly the Alex Lowe and
John Bachar types). Coz falls
into this category, even though I don't know him.
But there are also a large number of
less well-known climbers, and partners of mine who are not
famous, not pulling big numbers, who simply climb for recreation
and challenge themselves in the process. Paramount to this
category are high ethical, aesthetic and stylistic standards
(based on my own judgement and my own preferences). Some hard
core A**holes also fall in this category, because inspite of
their abrasive demeanors, they consistently stick to the
ethical and stylistic standards that I approve of.
TYPE B: Mark Twight would probably call these "posers". The
Growing Up construction crew falls into TYPE B in my mind.
Clearly, nobody should care what I think. After all, I am a
nobody in the climbing world. But since this is the internet
and everyone is posting their opinion, that is my opinion.
I have heroes, and the Growing Up construction crew are
certainly not my heroes.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dixegal wrote: Clearly, nobody should care what I think. After all, I am a nobody in the climbing world. But since this is the internet
and everyone is posting their opinion, that is my opinion.
Smartest thing you said in your post.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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There are two types of people in this world: those who divide everything into two groups, and those who...
Interesting division Dixiegal.
It's the 21st century, the posers rule, they have for a long time. Just look who we got for prez.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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dixiegal, before you go off half-cocked and shoot yourself in the foot (or worse), the late Alex Lowe (RIP) committed some acts with a Hilti power drill that were not only unethical (by your standards), but illegal as well (by FSLEO's standards).
Not to flame on Alex, but remind you that climbers are far more complex and unpredictable than you imagine, especially the ones that you READ about.
Carry on, oh SFHD thread.
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Buggs
Trad climber
Eagle River, Alaska
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I love this thread...I am addicted to this thread. Keeps drawing me back, day after day, night after night. I've lost my job, my kids are sick and unfed, my dog is...wait, where is my dog?
I know it can reach 3000, I know it can...
The coolest thing is, all of you are addicted too. Even those that keep posting for the rest of us junkies to quit posting...
I'll never stop reading you OH GRACIOUS SFHD THREAD...
And if the rest of you stop posting I will post, post, post, post...
Forever.
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Dixie Gal wrote: "I think it is fair to say that Growing Up has irrevocably tarnished the reputations of the principal two people that performed this construction job."
Dixie-G, I don't think that's a fair statement at all. Noteriety, yes, but irrevocibaly tarnished? Not so much. Perceptions change. Time heals all wounds. Cultural norms change. How you interpret it is up to you, but that still doesn't make it so.
Clearly, you have staked-out a piece of real estate on one side of an ideological line. If it helps for you think of yourself as as a reporter or spokesperson for a benevolent majority, that's your perrogative, but that still doesn't mean that it's the way it really is.
This thread has gone on way too long without a link.
This one goes out to all the playahz, you know who you are!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdGyR9bXsGE
You're welcome Buggs ;-)
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grover
Social climber
Akanada
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Type A and Type B ?!?!
Is that what we have become?
Sheeit.
Can we really cut us clamberers into 2 groups?
I don't think there are enough letters in the english alphabet to do such a thing.
mark
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Hey suze christo...
I go away for a while and this thread takes a drastic turn towards pansy hell. What started as a civil discussion has now morphed into a chest thumbing, bile spewing rag off. All this talk of chopping and beating makes me sick. Get over yourselves. All of you wanna be ethical purists who extoll the virtues of your heros have no idea how tainted virtually all of them are. GU is a climb that's all. It does nothing to diminish Half Dome or any other route anywhere. You can't see the bolts from the ground so why should you be so insensed that you think threatening each other is worthy? If you don't like it don't climb it. Simple.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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STFU-SFHD thread!
Just kidding, I'm flaming way worse the the political thread. This has brought my on-topic posting ratio back.
The Chopping and Beating remarks were so dozens of posts ago. Then came the sane explanations and now we're shuffling around waiting for a second ascent (not that there wouldn't be something wrong with that)
Or somebody new logs in that somebody respects and we get a new take, same as the old take, or better.
nothing more to say, really just trying to snag the covert 2182 post, a year in which humanity will be lucky if civilization still exists and even luckier if the old bolts on growing-up and Southern Belle have been removed and climbers just wear anti-gravity decelerometers on their backs.
The debate will be over the old decelerometers, which sometimes failed or gave you a hard landing, versus the new kind, which always set you down soft and fluffy.
Peace
karl
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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Oh come on Karl, everyone already knows the old decelerometers will be better, due to the element of uncertainty and risk.
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Karl, I have seen the future, and the future is "The Doob-a-lopter"!
It is powered by charged electron particles coming from the solar wind. You navigate simply by thinking about climbing, while wiggling your fingers, hips, and toes.
With this necissary rock craft tool, the A0 section just might be freeable.
*copyright 2008 ~SA~designs All rights reserved. Infringment punishable by by hobbling.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Looks trad! Bet it gets sketchy when the Doob wears off and the solar particles get obscured by those high country storms
Peace
karl
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Yeah, the real difficulty, and source for Doob-a-lopter raing system is in keeping your concentration.
You gotta be a Jedi!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Spencer, I'm just a doob. . . I'm not sure where my lopter went. . .
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Here's a PDF of the last 2187 posts, 346 pages, 8mb file:
http://www.deuce4.net/web/HalfDomeRapBolted.pdf
Note that there are other threads (not in the pdf), which include recaps, such as my distilled version:
"Yosemite, the world's premier big wall climbing area, gets its first "rap-bolted" big wall by a Sean Jones and a team of others, a 2000 foot new route on the back side of the famous Half Dome.
Although the new route is established using extensive "aid", including the installation of safety bolts from ropes anchored to the summit of Half Dome, approximately 95% of the climb is eventually climbed "free" by Sean.
The "top-down" climbing style is defended and promoted by Sean's team member Doug Robinson, a veritable icon of American rock climbing and early advocate of the clean climbing revolution of the 70's.
Led by Scott Cosgrove, a leading climber of the 1980s (the 'Golden Age' of bold climbing), arguments against the "top-down" style of establishing climbs, having all but disappeared from public discourse, are revived in favor of re-establishing "ground-up" rules for climbing in Yosemite.
The Yosemite climbing sage, Werner Braun, reminds us that such quarrel and strife are inevitable in the age of the Kali Yuga, and therefore resistance is futile. "
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Deuce,
Can any of this stuff be used against me in a court of law?
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wildone
climber
Where you want to be
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Actually John, I'm not so sure Growing Up was the first rap bolted wall in Yosemite. In that same issue of Schlock and Vice, wasn't there an article of two dudes RETRO BOLTING CRACKS on Arcturus, a long-established Royal Robbins big wall....on rap? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Arcturus wasn't rap bolted when it was established; thus, it doesn't qualify as Yosemite's first rap-bolted big wall.
Sorry.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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My own version of the Doob a lopter more closely conforms to the classic pregnant guppy, form.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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The top half of the 39 pitch route on Glacier Point, Galactic Hitchhiker (11b) was equiped by rapping in from the top. I don't know if they actually placed bolts on rappel, or led the pitches first.
The crux pitch is tightly bolted and one bolt seems to be in the wrong place (I can't clip it when freeing it) so I'm sure it was either bolted using aid or on rap.
I don't care though. Done the route a bunch of times and enjoy it a lot.
Peace
Karl
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