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Stew
Trad climber
Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 22, 2006 - 06:26pm PT
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This is for those climbers who accept Dean Potter's ascent of Delicate Arch. I've been fortunate enough to have climbed and hiked in the canyon country for 37 years and I still do. Dean is a very good friend of mine. We have climbed some good routes together and even climbed in Arches together. I consider him a high quality person and a rad climber and he is for nature. Dean's ascent of Delicate Arch may not have been against the law because of a loophole, but this is not the issue.
Dean broke a trust that we climbers had with the Park Service to not climb the arches. Instead we left them for the ravens. We were allowed to climb the towers, the walls, the boulders, do new routes, and even place bolts with a hand drill if needed. Just stay off the arches! This ascent shows the Park Service that we may need rules on paper in big letters. This is not good.
I've climbed the Three Gossips many times and always seem to have some sort of spiritual experience up there. The Gossips know this...but they're not talking...Jimmie Dunn
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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May 22, 2006 - 06:36pm PT
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I think that your take on this is the best summation yet, Jim.
All the best, Roger
PS: Welcome to ST land.
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Webmonkey
Trad climber
Ca.
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May 22, 2006 - 06:58pm PT
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Blaming Dean Potter for the new regs is like blaming Saddam Hussein for 911.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 22, 2006 - 07:11pm PT
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Hi Jimmy,
like I said EVEN I knew to stay off that one.
When I first showed up in Arches ('76) they had some strange rules which led me to do the Owl as my first route because a rock had fallen from its summit disowning it of a name (which would have put it off limits). All rather capricious and arbitrary.
But the rock of Arches in general is remarkably fragile so if anything shouldn't be messed with (even "soft" rubber) then its something where "delicate" is part of the name.
I have the greatest respect for Dean's climbing ability but this is a brain fart that could end up being very regretable.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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May 22, 2006 - 09:43pm PT
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Blaming Dean Potter for the new regs is like blaming Saddam Hussein for 911.
i take it you voted for bush?
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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May 22, 2006 - 09:50pm PT
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There's always going to be people who put restrictions on us--that's what "authorities" do. It's always a tighrope act in trying to get away with as much as possible without having the authorities feel as though their hegemony is being usurped and then start shutting down entire areas. That's what I see Jimmy bringing to our attention--a case where a guy probably went too far. I personally don't hae a problem with Dean climbing the Arch, had he kept it a secret only to himself. No harm, no foul. But plastering the ascent all over the web is tantamount to flipping off the rangers and I'd bet if Dean (who I respect a lot) were to have it to do all over again, he'd still solo the arch but wouldn't tell anyone.
JL
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2006 - 10:19pm PT
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Thanks Jimmy Dunn for your thoughts .....
We are the architects of our own destiny. What we do will also affect others no matter how small.
Authorities actions are a direct reflection of our collective actions.
Conscious thinking is paramount to good social skills. (Not that I have any)
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MikeL
climber
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May 22, 2006 - 11:32pm PT
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When Dean Potter said, (ala Malabarista’s article): "I did no more than blow a little dust off a few handholds,” he’s playing to the press—and poorly.
Who today here doesn’t know that we live in a world of perceptions, spin, marketing, and promotion? It’s not what really happened; it’s what people make of it. A sport and its celebrities almost fully overlap in adventure sports, and every athlete should be aware that his or her career relies upon the perceived value and integrity their personal branding.
Dean and Patagonia have had big lapses in judgment, and those have now turning into mutual escalations of commitment. Patagonia and Dean were either ignorant, stupid, or they are pulling our collective legs. “But I didn’t do anything wrong” is naďve and disingenuous. Like some companies recently, they feel they have to deny the foolishness of their actions; but the more they do, the worse it gets for them.
Dean and Patagonia could take a cue from those few smart companies that stepped on their d*cks, admitted it, and fixed their problems as quickly and fully as they could.
In the world of business, when you screw up, even when it isn’t really your fault, say it is, do something significant to placate those offended, and get the hell out of the limelight. Werner said, “conscious thinking is paramount to good social skills.” I’d change “conscious” to “conscientious.”
-MikeL
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 22, 2006 - 11:43pm PT
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Slapping a little boycott on Pattagucci would do more to make the point than anything else.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 23, 2006 - 12:03am PT
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Before talking boycott let's see what shakes out from this. Besides, did they know before or after? It doesn't sound as though they've provided a ringing endorsement of Potter's choices but rather of his skill (and justifiably so).
I for one am not all that sure that today's climbers are willing to place preservation before their own ambitions and it might just turn out that a ban today preserves the resource for a generation that might treat it with greater reverence. I've long thought that the fragile climbs of the desert are like a canary in a coal mine that will serve as a warning of the greater destruction of what we climb.
But the canary must die to provide that warning.
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jeff benowitz
climber
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May 23, 2006 - 12:03am PT
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the ultimate solo is the one you don't tell anyone about.
all else is an ego trip or a poorly thought out business plan.
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10b4me
Ice climber
The Happies
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May 23, 2006 - 12:34am PT
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Slapping a little boycott on Pattagucci would do more to make the point than anything else.
think you are preaching to the wrong crowd. I'd bet most purveyors of Patagonia products are not supertopians, but rather
SUV drivin' yuppies.
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WBraun
climber
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May 23, 2006 - 12:37am PT
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jeff benowitz
You really believe that YOU are on an ego trip and have poorly thought buisness plans?
What do you really know about the Ultimate?
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Professor Fate
Big Wall climber
Vulgaria
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May 23, 2006 - 07:27am PT
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If a tree falls in a forrest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
Humility is the worst form of conceit.
If human beings do not share their lives and what they do, they are meaningless.
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MikeL
climber
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May 23, 2006 - 10:41am PT
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Banal.
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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May 23, 2006 - 11:01am PT
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You guys just keep following the rules set by the man!! Very sad.Dean, the solo was great,you should have kept it to yourself.The man is involved now, & as you can see above most people are programmed by him.rg
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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May 23, 2006 - 11:49am PT
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"If human beings do not share their lives and what they do, they are meaningless."
And here lies the core of co-dependency.
Sharing your life is crucial, but not the end-all.
JL
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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May 23, 2006 - 01:02pm PT
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a conversation I overheard once in Boulder on Pearl Street...
dude: so how's camping with the homeless up there on the hill?
hippie: i'm not working for the man.
dude: the man?
hippie: you know, THE MAN
dude: what man?
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todd-gordon
climber
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May 23, 2006 - 04:26pm PT
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Jimmie Dunn is THE MAN......just remember, I understand he has an infant child at home now......he's looking at life differently now, probably not getting enough sleep, late 50's now, change of life...not climbing as much as he used to spending time with the wee one.....(sounds like somebody ELSE I know...)..........all influences on his perception of climbing and the world..........(Don't mean sheeeet, does it?)....I personally look at life and climbing differently now that I'm a dad......(So I guess Dean's only hope is that he and Steph start pile driving tonight so THEY can have a child too!)......AND....AND... I'm sure their kids will be so awesome and cute..... Patagonia KIDS catalogue.....(Problem solved.....).....The Park Service, being pro-family ....will back off.....they can't get much support on kicking around a new Mom and Dad..............That was EASY!!!
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