Jim Dunn on the Delicate Arch Fiasco

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golsen

Social climber

kennewick, wa

May 23, 2006 - 04:29pm PT

todd, proves what I always thought. Sex is a cure all!

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

May 27, 2006 - 10:39pm PT

Dean is an amazing guy and there is much to admire about him.

Still, all humans, even our climbing heros, have blind spots and faults that allow us to make mistakes. I sure do.

I tend to believe Dean's ill feelings from some bad NPS encounters have tainted his vision in this case on how to be an "ambassador" of the sport wisely.

The fact that the ascent was photographed, taped and published shows that his public persona was part of this ascent, not just the private renegade visionary.

It seems that taunting the NPS was part of his vision. That's like pissing in the wind. You come out smelling badly.

Doesn't mean he's a bad guy. But I do think he made a bad call in this case.

Good could still come of it, particularly if Patagonia and the Access Fund (maybe even with Dean) took the opportunity to educate and communicate with NPS and the public about what should and shouldn't be kosher in the parks and establishing lines of communication to hash out issues before they become regulations.

Peace

Karl

PDHMAN

Trad climber

Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395

May 27, 2006 - 11:38pm PT

"The responsibility for solving or preventing access problems likewise rests with each and every climber. Minimizing environmental impact and being sensitive to behavior which could affect access, will help prevent problems." John Long, p.151 "How to Rock Climb" 1st ed.

Hmmmm, sounds like a practical philosophy to me. Why then do many still display empathy for DP and his greatness, when his behavior has in fact created access problems that will and do impact us all with goals in Arches? There is a saying we had in the Navy, "One OH SH#T, erases all the attaboys that one has acquired throughout their career, and is destined to be all that one is remembered for."
I don't care if it was Jesus Christ himself, what DP did was WRONG, plain and simple. Quit sugar coating it and making excuses for what he did, regardless of who he is and what he has accomplished. It's called integrity and respect for others! This was his primary negative action, "Fu*k you all, I am going to do it regardless..."
Thanks Dean Potter for Fu*cking away the plans and goals of many of us, all for your selfish desires! What a stand up guy though, huh? Hell, just give him a weapon so he can terminate all the NPS Rangers, it's o.k. He's Dean Potter for God's sake. He's allowed to make mistakes regarless of how the outcome will impact the rest of us. Only in America. His actions are worse than Saddam's, they equate to those of George Bush. "F*ck you, I will do it anyway regardless of what you all think! I'm Dean Potter". Thanks to you DP, I can't finish my two projects here...

elcapfool

Big Wall climber

hiding in plain sight

May 28, 2006 - 12:13pm PT

You go PDH!
I am amazed how many people can fit up Dean's ass. You all talk about his climbing ability as some sort of excuse for being an azzwhole. I know Dean pesonally, and I DON'T respect him.
He's just another delusional drug addict, with a superiority complex. How well does that fit a sponsored "ambassador"?

Personally, I am going all the way. I have written several letters urging the government to ban him for life from all National Parks, monuments, and federal fee areas, as I believe he is the single biggest threat to the sport of climbing, and to the future enjoyment of the Natural Resources protected by the NPS. He's already killed slacklining.

All that Energy, Nature, and Raven BS, doesn't mean spit comming from a paid corporate shill.

This isn't new behavior. Way back in the twentieth century Dean cut down a tree in Yosemite because it was growing next to a super obscure boulder problem most people couldn't find with a GPS unit.

Let's see how Patagonia does over the next year, and if they attribute falling sales to Dean's antics. These decisions are based on numbers, not personal connections. No worries, there are lots of jobs for unskilled, inexperienced people who test positive for cannabis, and have a history of infamy.

And the arguement that the climb wasn't illegal is pathetically stupid. I've been there, and done many routes in Arches, to think you could legally climb DA, or any other arch for that matter is preposterous.

So how long do we have to wait for a Tammy Knight cartoon of all this...

BrentA

Gym climber

estes park

May 28, 2006 - 12:56pm PT

bout time this started coming out.

Who cares if he climbed it. How gay (sorry to the gay boyz) is it to videotape this?

He's too tall to set the bar this low. I can't believe Patagucci stands behind him so stalwartly.

Fringe area of law my azz...

lcoyne

Big Wall climber

Byron Bay, Australia

May 28, 2006 - 01:04pm PT

Arches NP has recently put into place a climbing management plan similar to, and based on, the CMP for Canyonlands. This was done as an immediate and interim measure pending development of a final CMP for this park. This plan was put into place as a result of the recent fiasco.

This plan will be open for public comment and feedback, so now is the time. In reviewing the plan (available on Arches web site) from a climbing perpsective I find the most (possibly only) egregious action to be the banning of fixed anchors (pins, bolts, hammers).

I would encourage anyone concernend with climbing in ANY US national park to provide feedback to Laura Joss, the Superintendent for Arches. The reprecussions of "the fiasco" will not be limited to Arches.

In particular, I would suggest you encourage Superintendent Joss to review the climbing management plan for the Black Canyon which I believe is a good model for Arches to follow. You can find this plan on the Black's web site.

Jaybro

Social climber

The West

May 28, 2006 - 02:09pm PT

Isn't it a banning of, New, fixed anchors?

Will check out the Black plan when I get back from climbing.

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

May 28, 2006 - 02:19pm PT

I won't be buying anything from Pattagucci, called em up and told em so.

Potter is a mirror of a certain sort of climber though-- there is a large group that will just do whatever they want, regardless of the consequences.

IT's not pretty, it causes a lot of problems, but it comes with the package, unfortuantely.

Not sure how you can get any segment of society to behave unless they want to.

laws are for after the damage is done, or for people who don't break em anyway, really.

Tahoe climber

Trad climber

Tahoe

May 28, 2006 - 08:08pm PT

While I don't agree with behavior (illiegal or not) that endangers access for the rest of us, I don't see what Patagonia has to do with it.

They didn't send him to the arch.
They probably didn't even know about it beforehand.
And they certainly haven't backed him up on it, while not getting on to him, either.
They took a neutral stance, which is appropriate, because it wasn't illegal, and the action didn't use up or damage natural resources.

Most importantly, they still make some of the best gear available. Do you really think it will make a difference not buying a capilene shirt?
Get real.

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

May 28, 2006 - 08:18pm PT

Yes, it will make a difference if enough people tell them they will not buy and stand by that.

The religious right has scared the crap out of businesses with even the threat of boycotts.

YOU need to understand what real is before you tell people to get some.

YOur claims about damage are debatable.

PDHMAN

Trad climber

Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395

May 28, 2006 - 09:13pm PT

I just wish that some of the "Big Boys and Girls" would stand up for what is Right!!!!! Quit stroking an individual, DP, that deliberately goes out and does something that negatively impacts the masses. I hate the "Good Old Boy" syndrome. It sucks and is wrong! DP Fu*ked UP folks and many of us will be paying for it far greater than DP ever will!!!! Let's go all you Top Liner's, Stand Up for what is right and please start Walking the Talk and not just Talking the Talk. At least Jimmie Dunn has the balls too...do some of the rest of you????
Again, page 151, John Long's "How to Climb", 1st ed, ahhh????????

Tahoe climber

Trad climber

Tahoe

May 28, 2006 - 09:21pm PT

dirtyboy:
Please.
I remember the last time the religious right tried to scare Patagonia into doing something. Do some research and see how well that worked. That cause was just as ridiculous.
Have a great day.
-Aaron

edit: And why is it that in every thread, if someone were to make a prediction of the most ridiculous, knee-jerk, uneducated response that anyone could make, YOU come along and say just what was predicted?
You're a laugh, buddy.

WBraun

climber

May 28, 2006 - 09:25pm PT

PDHMAN

Potter already knows he's toast, inside he knows. The heavy vibes he feels from the climbing community is already affecting his psych.

Ever read "Crime and Punishment".

PDHMAN

Trad climber

Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395

May 28, 2006 - 09:51pm PT

It is really getting old to find a quiet area that affords great oppurtunities for us that abide by the rules and enjoy the challenges of putting up quality routes, quietly and with permission, that work up a good rep with the Landowner or Caretaker's of that area in order to play and have fun. Then some selfish, ego tripper, that has established themselves in all the Mags and in the Big Shot coot show, comes along and fu*ks away the previalges for some of us that have played by the rules! This isn't the first time that this has occurred. This same thing occurred nine years ago at Glenn Canyon Natl Mon when you know who BASED illegally, busted his ass and the SAR that ensued to save his selfish ass brought a really bad mark on many projects that I had on tap for Lake Powell. The area was shut down for four years to all climbing until further research was done by the Monument Super's for some sort of protocol for allowing any climbing in the region, to be drawn up and implemented. Come on folks, this sheet needs to come to an end. By some of the Major well known players stepping up to the plate and publicly denouncing this type of behavior and letting the culprits know that their actions are and will no be tolerated.

"What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. There is no in between. That is the law of the land. May the bearer of either be held accountable for either action. Regardless of whom they may be."
Abraham Lincoln

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

May 28, 2006 - 10:17pm PT

Tahoe climber says: Boycotts don't work!!

Right. Moron.

I still don't know how you get your shoes on. Does someone help you?

Loom

climber

167 stinking feet above sea level : (

May 28, 2006 - 10:17pm PT

Ad hominem attacks can be a fun way to let off steam, but they don’t substantively move the debate forward.

Dean was videotaped and Dean is sponsored. Whatever your feelings are about these things, they are side issues. I think sponsorship sucks; it is part of what is leading to the Disneyfication of climbing, but this is not relevant to this issue.

Aren’t some of you really saying that Dean’s selfish action may prevent your selfish actions? And you want to use the strategies of the religious wrong to make things right? Maybe we could all call in our suggestions to the sponsors of our favorite sponsored climber, so we can force them to climb what we want them to climb. We can send Dean back to the real Patagonia!

Some think he is a selfish sell-out; a hypocrite. I haven't seen Dean for a while, but I've known him to be a person who staunchly defends everyone's right to be out on the stone whether they are bumbling n00bs, or Chongo working a multi-year project. (I’m less tolerant.) Whatever his motivation was and what kind of person he is--I don't know--but again I think this is something that is not relevant.

What is relevant?

Has Dean directly harmed you in any way?

Is there any evidence that he physically harmed Delicate Arch?

So what we're really b!tching about is the park service's reaction to Deans climb. Do you think that banning new fixed anchors was a reasonable response? What if they banned all climbing; reasonable? Dean's fault?

Preserve and protect from what? Preserve and protect for whom?

I see a bunch of Thebans bowing and scraping before Creon. If it's against the law it must be wrong???

It is ironic that Dean is compared to Bush, when to my mind many of you are acting like the mindless GOP cattle that hew to whatever line RoBuChensfeld lays down. Why not write a letter deploring the NPS over-reaction? Or just go place your fixed anchors anyway, but get ready, because when the NPS bans all climbing in response you’ll be our next whipping boy.

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

May 28, 2006 - 10:21pm PT

PDHman, you are so right.

Several prime crags in the south were closed because of ONE or TWO selfish idiots who mouthed off to landowners, asserting their right to do as they pleased on private property.

Tahoegoofball notwithstanding, anyone who feels that the arch debacle was wrong should call or write Patagucci and tell them up front you are not pleased with the acts of thier sponsee, and that if they do not take some action, you will not be buying pattagucci.

Potter drew a line in the sandstone, we should all cross it and put distance between ourselves and him.

PDHMAN

Trad climber

Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395

May 28, 2006 - 10:22pm PT

LOOM: "Has Dean directly harmed you in any way?"

YES!!

NO MORE FA's in ARCH's!! Where have you been??? And my two projects, that I have been quietly working on the Tower of Babel for the past three years, can never be finished!!! I was on my way the week he climbed DA to finish them and then...BAM!!!

NO MORE BOLTING OR NEW ANCHOR's!!!!!

WHY?? DEAN POTTER...that is WHY!

LOOM...Until DEAN did his thing, ARCHES was a quiet and low keyed playground. The rapport between climber's and the NPS in the Park was great! Now, we are sh*t! Wake up LOOM and smell reality. One persons actions has destroyed the hard work of many. Ask Jimmie Dunn. That is the reality of all this. And it SUCKS and DP is sh*t, regardless of my political view, sexual preference, gender, race or....