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pazreal
Trad climber
Spokane, WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 31, 2009 - 02:29pm PT
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I am wondering what are the most useful size offset cams (Aliens or Offset Master Cams) for routes like The Nose, Moonlight Buttress, and other somewhat easy and clean walls.
Right now I am thinking of getting 0/1 (purple/blue), 1/2(blue/yellow), and 2/3(yellow/orange) Offset Master cams to get started.
The really small ones don't seem that useful since there isn't a big size difference between the halves, and the big ones don't seem useful since there is a really big difference.
What has been your experience?
Thanks
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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Aug 31, 2009 - 02:31pm PT
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I have a Black/blue, blue/yellow, & a yellow/green.
They kick azz, IMHO.
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pazreal
Trad climber
Spokane, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2009 - 02:34pm PT
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Alien sizes right? I also have doubles in the black alien-yellow alien as well as the HB brass offsets. Just looking to not have to have offset nuts since they are harder to come by and get fixed more easily.
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Werd
Trad climber
Bay area
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Aug 31, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
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Without a doubt, the most useful offset in the Valley is the yellow/red alien.
I'm not even a fan of CCH, but this cam size is SUPER helpful for both the nose and washington column if you're not going to be free climbing the majority of it. The green/yellow alien is also helpful.
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WallMan
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 31, 2009 - 02:41pm PT
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Pazreal - go with Aliens - and get the full set. Better yet, get two full sets of offsets. The smallest sizes, and the largest sizes, can be VERY useful! Two sets of offset cams were on my rack for the Nose, Moonlight, Spaceshot, and Touchstone - and was very glad I had them.
Wally
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pazreal
Trad climber
Spokane, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
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Thinking I'll get a set of Metolius and a set of CCH for variety. Few units at a time is what I'll do.
Are the yellow/red and green/yellow super useful since they line up to the piton size that caused the flare? Those should line up with ~1" piton right?
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jfailing
Trad climber
A trailer park in the Sierras
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Aug 31, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
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Are the offset Aliens really used that much more than regular Aliens in the Valley? Would it be worth it to even get regular Aliens?
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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Aug 31, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
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Either one & you're set.
I like Pazreal's idea, too.
Mix it up!
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pazreal
Trad climber
Spokane, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
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Thanks everyone. Just ordered a set of the Metolius master cams. Looking forward to a smoky weekend in the Valley.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Aug 31, 2009 - 03:40pm PT
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Pretty much, the consensus from valley climbers is Master Cams = thumbs down. They're simply not anywhere near as good as the Aliens. A bit of research here would have found that, along with all of the reasons why, as there have been a few threads about it.
As far as offsets... Yes, definitely used a TON in the valley. Mandatory gear for walls.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Aug 31, 2009 - 03:42pm PT
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my experience is that the smaller the hybrid the more useful. I heart black/blue
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 31, 2009 - 04:59pm PT
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I have both master cams and aliens and am starting to prefer master cams for free climbing. Took a nice little fall onto the 00 sunday.
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Aug 31, 2009 - 05:08pm PT
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are you talking about offsets or reg?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Aug 31, 2009 - 05:33pm PT
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Fistfulls of aliens, offset or not, Mandatory! Oh and they are worth the most on the trade for brain food.
Master cams, offset or not suck to the point you will probably throw them at your belayer.
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 31, 2009 - 05:44pm PT
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I was talking about the regular ones, i don't have the offsets yet but will purchase a few in the near future.
I think the master cam hate comes from people who aren't use to the smaller range compared to aliens...if you are used to tcu sizing they are awesome.
Either that or a bunch of aid wankers who need gear every three feet.
The only possibly valid complaint i have heard about is that you can't place them upside down...if you can only get a placement upside down its an in cut jug and you should stick your fingers in it and pull.
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Aug 31, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
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I have a few masters to go with my tcu's and fcu's and I like them, they offer me a single stem option where I'd be placing a u-stem normally...I don't think it's possible to talk sh#t about masters and praise tcu's. it doesn't make sense...When someone tells you masters suck, ask them what they think of TCU's...
I need offsets for aid and only have one alien hybrid so far, I'm curious about the offset masters for the same purpose but it seems no one is able to give an educated review yet...
Oh, and Chris Mac put masters on his list, they can't suck that bad..
I can come on here and talk crap about BD C4's all day, will that make them suck?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Aug 31, 2009 - 06:16pm PT
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"Either that or a bunch of aid wankers who need gear every three feet."
hahahaha Yeah. What would anyone here know, since we actually have big walls close by. hahaha
squishy, OP - Again, do a little research. ie: get off your ass and read. There have been plenty of "educated reviews" of them. Even by people who've used metolius cams too. There's a reason why people continue to use Aliens, despite the bad press. There is simply nothing close to comparing yet. For a number of reasons.
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WallMan
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Aug 31, 2009 - 06:34pm PT
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I don't think mixing manufacturers gear makes sense - from the point of view of efficiency. Get as efficient as you can at identifying the gear placement, prior to making the placement, and your speed really increases. If you try to form the mental image of two different manufacturers cams - you won't be as efficient. As echoed above, a fist full of Aliens, both regulars and offsets, is the way to go, both in Yosemite and Zion. My rack contains two sets of regulars (up to camalot junior size), and two sets of offsets.
Climb Ohn.
Wally
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pazreal
Trad climber
Spokane, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2009 - 06:43pm PT
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I tried to do the research but since Offset master cams were just released I was hoping someone had insight into whether or not the offset alleviated any of the problems people reported about the regular master cams. The threads here usually just say hybrid aliens and then split into either get a whole set, get the small ones, or get the big ones. I appreciate the responses. Since I ended up getting a set of Offset Master cams and have not heard about anyone's experience with them ( likely since they are new) I will report back my an experience next week.
Sorry for typos, typing on my phone.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Aug 31, 2009 - 07:06pm PT
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Plenty of stuff here...
A LOT of people who have tried Master Cams, even taken them up El Cap have reported the same problems with them. Again, they just aren't there yet.
Just a few issues with them.
* The trigger cables are not very tough.
* The lobes are too hard - they simply don't hold nearly as
well in flares, etc. as the Aliens.
* They are too stiff.
* In certain placements, the lobes retract when you weight the
cam, meaning you get to take a ride.
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