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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 26, 2009 - 10:21pm PT
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They hit me up on mountain bikes as I left the house on a beer-run. I talked to them and told them to come back tomorrow after work and I'll talk to them about religion.
I love this stuff as y'all know.
I even gave them some 'thinker' topics I'd like to discuss. They're going to double-team me tomorrow but I told them I may put them to work in my garage on my cabinet project.
They were cool with it.
I also told them I'm Catholic and have no inclinations on conversion or prostelytizing about 'their faith'. It's just Bible study time and their interpretation.
I did imply that beer would be served too!
Should be interesting....I love religious peeps! Really. The cool ones are really open to discussion.
I actually have a lot of respect for Mormons. It ain't easy being faithful and livin' the life!
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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May 26, 2009 - 10:24pm PT
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Go easy on them - they are usually some scared shiteless kid from OOtah trying to make it through their tour of duty in one piece.
I usually feed them if they agree to leave the religious BS at the door.
We mostly talk about skiing Alta.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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May 26, 2009 - 10:29pm PT
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have you read "under the banner of heaven"?
get a copy and read at least the beginning, about the origins of the religion, and then ask the (with a straight face if at all possible) to either refute or defend those origins.
i would love to see it...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2009 - 10:32pm PT
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I hear ya, Ricky, I just like talking religion and Bible stuff.
Matt, I'm not gonna challenge them directly. I'll tell them how I see sh#t and see what they have to say. And I'll listen to their story.
Yeah, I'll prolly be buzzed too!
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apogee
climber
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May 26, 2009 - 10:35pm PT
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I'm not saying anything here.
Except that sh*t is whacked.
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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May 26, 2009 - 10:37pm PT
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Ask them if they believe the center of the earth is hollow. My mormom cousins asked me that question a couple years ago and I told them "Why, of course. Everybody knows that".
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
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Matt, what is your point, your direct question to them?
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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May 26, 2009 - 10:41pm PT
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You got to love those Pixes on bikes. I just bring up my cousin's husbands name (who happens to be be one of riches Mormons in Nothern Califorina and they leave me alone. They get on their bikes and ride away.
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salad
climber
Escondido
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May 26, 2009 - 10:56pm PT
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we used to get a lot of mormons and j-witnesses come to our house when i was growing up. we had a looong walk way to get the front door, it passed my mom and dads bedroom window, my window, and my brothers window. we lived in rural escondido and had dogs so we always plenty of warning when someone was on our property.
Boomer would start barking like mad which would trigger John and I to peak out the window and see who was coming to ring our door bell. we would blast maiden number of the beast or some old sabbath or something else evil and giggle our asses off. on occasion, given enough time, one of us would answer the door in a black cloak that had an upside down cross sewn on the back. an old holloween custom from when John went as Alistair Crowley (sp).
classic brotherhood bonding memories....
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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May 26, 2009 - 10:58pm PT
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ask them about the golden plates-
ask them where they were found and how long they'd been buried there before they were "revealed" to joseph smith by an angel-
ask them what language the plates were written in-
ask them about who "translated" these golden plates-
ask them if all the tales of joseph smith having been a bit of a con man are just smears.
...and then ask them why, in the book of mormon, there is so much reference to technologies which did not exist (horse drawn carriages, forged metals, etc.) in the eras supposedly being described, but DID exist in the time of joseph smith, and how any logical person would explain that.
ask them about the mormon version of the spread of humans across the globe, and about the enormous battles in north america-
and then ask why there is no evidence of these (apparently huge?) early societies or their amazing battles, even though we have so much evidence from other human populations in north america.
i could go on and on...
it's just like trying to disprove the bible in literal terms, only there is no 2000 yr gap to make it all seem vague...
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 26, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
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I have cousins who are Mormons, and many friends and former law partners and associates who are LDS, but I'm an evangelical Christian. I love my Mormon friends and relatives greatly, but religiously, we have irreconcilable differences.
One time, I let the missionaries try their spiel on us. The two cyclists came with a more senior member of the local congregation (stake? ward? I can't remember.) The more mature gentleman proceeded to say how God revealed his truth to righteous men, and asked my then ten-year-old daughter what she thought. Her reply: "What about that Matthew person? Was he righteous?" They had no response.
John
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2009 - 11:16pm PT
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I hear ya Matt. The Joseph Smith thing is kinda weird, but whatever...That's why I wanna talk to them. These guys are early 20's, maybe mid.
I just like talking about the stuff. Maybe I'll invite my redneck motor-head buddy over who is Anglican, he's actually better versed in scripture than I. And he pretty cool, we've talked to Mormons before, an Anglican Christian and a Roman Catholic...if you got something better on a Wednesday night, let me know.
Hey Khanom, it's nice you think I'm stupid and brainwashed to have faith. I wonder if you'd say that to a Buddhist Monk or a Muslim Imam?
Maybe it's just white Christians who are stupid, especially males!
Nice, John! These called themselves 'elder'. Whatever, like I said, I will have a coversation with them. I love the discussion. And I already told them, they're gone if they start preaching. I really 'hate' that...
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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May 26, 2009 - 11:19pm PT
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"Ask them if they believe the center of the earth is hollow. My mormom cousins asked me that question a couple years ago and I told them "Why, of course. Everybody knows that".
Perhaps your "mormon cousins" have been watching too many Pat Boone movies from mid twentieth century, Mr Lugar. There is no LDS doctrine stating the "center of the earth is hollow".
(Or is every Hollywood science fiction movie and every Jules Verne novel also now included under the popular gossip paradigm of “what those whacky Mormons believe”? )
Just the same, I bet you and your cousins had fun playing Journey to the Center of the Earth. Dodging boulders, giant lizards and falling stalactites sounds almost as fun as climbing.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2009 - 11:20pm PT
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Nice, is this how to get my favorite gal back (other than Mimi and LEB), by bringing in the religion?
Yesssss! Hi Jennie.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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May 26, 2009 - 11:26pm PT
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Hi, Bluering.
I'm not in the same league as Lois or Mimi but a mormon thread usually baits me.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2009 - 11:29pm PT
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Roger that, Jennie.
It'll be an interesting discussion tomorrow, I was thinking of web-casting it. I got the camera but I don't know if it's a good idea...on many levels.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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May 26, 2009 - 11:30pm PT
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I feel bad for the guys going to Salad's place.
"Man, I'm really excited to make some more Witnesses!"
"Whats that noise?"
SIX! SIX! SIX! THE NUMBER OF THE BEEEEAST!!!
I know a few mormons, SUPER cool people. Its a shame their church is, uh, crazy. But good people, at least in my parts. I hear some not-so-good stuff from Utah, but they fuggle sheep there, so there ya go.
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Choss Gee
Trad climber
Wyoming/Utah
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May 26, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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I am from Utah and I was raised Mormon in one of the most close knit super conservative bubbles of Utah known as Cache Valley. Many kids I grew up with and went to school with are now leaving for their missions (they leave for two years at the age of 19 for those of you who don't know). The thing about Mormons in Utah is if you're a young man who isn't going/hasn't been on a mission call you're pretty much a untouchable. A situation I face now. So most of these kids I know are going on missions rather they feel its their calling or not just for the fact that it is what is expected of them and if they want to marry a nice Mormon girl and function in these communities. Alot of them aren't "worthy" and have done things that if were disclosed to the LDS church they wouldn't be serving on missions but, they go because they're "supposed to". With that said you'll know who is out there for the right reasons or not when they start doing there thing.
If you want to make them comfortable I would suggest not offering them beer nor drinking it in there pressence. If that was your intent be prepared to belectured. (Besides they're probably underage)
They don't mind being put to work but their tactics are to do your labor in exchange for you going to an LDS meeting or something like that.
They are very, very persistant and can be very, very stubborn with their ideals.
They live off a set ammount of money their families send every month, it is very little, they live in shitty housing don't get to eat much besides at church functions. They do have cars but have very strict milage quotas so they ride bikes and walk everywhere so be careful or they will eat you out of house and home.
They're uptight because, they can't watch T.V., listen to music that isn't of the religious nature, Go swimming, show interest in women and, many other things we all enjoy. Only get a few hours of week to themselves and that is to prepare lessons and such.
I'm not telling you to hear them out or treat them like heroes. I'm not mormon. I'm just saying they're scared little boys that are pretty much stripped of humanity right out of highschool and believe me it makes them really strange and awkward guys. Hopefully your pair are good ones and you'll learn something.
Cheers let us know how it goes.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 26, 2009 - 11:36pm PT
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I just tell 'em,
"Wait a minute! I have to go find my magic spectacles."
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2009 - 11:49pm PT
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Choss, I hear ya. If they want to talk Bible and religion on MY PROPERTY at my invitation, they do so under my terms or they're free to leave at any time.
Rules at My House:
1. Consume anything you want, just be cool, be sober (mostly).
2. Any discussion is fair game! Play or leave at will.
3. Don't be a bitch! (Anybody but the host being an obvious obnoxious, violent, or disfunctional person). You'll get asked to leave!
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