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Climby McClimbface
Trad climber
WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 16, 2018 - 10:10pm PT
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Any advice on how to manage a portaledge on a popular El Cap route? Do people put ledges directly into the bolt anchors on the top of a pitch, or does this create massive clusterf*#ks for parties that might pass. What’s the best way to deal with this on a crowded route?
We are looking at doing Triple Direct in October. I’m hoping a portaledge will be unnecessary for most of the route, but camping space on the upper pitches of the Nose looks tight. Trying to figure out how to find a place to sleep without creating a traffic jam. Thanks!
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ECF
Big Wall climber
Ridgway CO
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Sep 17, 2018 - 05:11am PT
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Get there first.
Clip it wherever you want.
Tell everybody else to suck eggs.
Seriously.
Passing is a priveledge not a right.
They saw you up there and chose to come up behind you, you have no obligation to them in any way.
In some places with loose rock, no one would ever dare ask to pass or be stupid enough to come up behind. Even El Cap sheds rocks all the time.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:33am PT
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You don’t want to be that guy blocking people from passing on El Cap (or any route) nor the guy who is so incompetent and slow everyone wants to pass. If you have to ask, just skip the portaledge. It’s unnecessary weight and wrongheaded logistics for the route. Get up early, go light, climb efficiently - and be willing to sleep sitting for a night if that happens - it will make you tougher.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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Agree with JLP, a portaledge is unnecessary on that route and will just slow you down and detract from your enjoyment.
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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Sep 17, 2018 - 10:07am PT
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Just add new bolts out of the way for your plush portaledge bivi. That's what everybody else does.
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Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
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Sep 17, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
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I climbed it w/o a ledge back when only a few people could afford them. In those days the normal way was to sleep on Sickle Ledge, EC Tower and then Camp 5. If you're going slower than that you will be in someone's way.
PS - I suggest doing a few long routes to be confident you can do the changeovers fast and at least 10 pitches a day. The DNB is excellent for this, but please don't try to walk off it in the dark.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Sep 17, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
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Ok, sort of on topic here:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/09/17/world/sweden-chinese-tourists-intl/index.html
China is accusing Sweden of human rights violations (ha!) because some Chinese tourists were too cheap to pay for the night they arrived (2am). They wanted to just sleep in the lobby of the hostel when the hostel wouldn’t check them in “early” (for the following night), and then the police came to enforce that people can’t just sleep at a hotel for free.
So, in terms of portaledges... if you rent somebody’s portaledge for 2 nights but you show up at their house at 2am expecting to use it “early” for the next night (because technically it is a morning check-in), what is the etiquette for collecting a 3rd night’s rent?
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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Sep 17, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
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I vote bring the portaledge.
Triple Direct was my first grade VI and we spent like 5 nights on it, and we’re damn glad to have the ledge.
Grey Ledges and Camp IV are not good ledge bivis and often have other parties on them. You won’t want to sleep on the piss stained lumpy Camp 6 either.
If you have your own portaledge it takes a lot of the pressure off of hitting a certain bivi, and if it’s already crowded then just keep climbing up or bivi one pitch below them.
And hanging bivis are rad. The anchors where Sheild and TD/Muir split are an amazing exposed bivi. As is the top of the Great Roof pitch.
Plus if weather rolls in you are protected. One less excuse to bail.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Sep 17, 2018 - 09:51pm PT
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Just add new bolts out of the way for your plush portaledge bivi. That's what everybody else does.
Agreed!
Just be sure that they are "adequate" bolts, so that they don't need replacement any time soon. As I said in another thread recently, I don't place anything smaller than 2-inch by 10-inch wedge-anchors at this point. Nothing smaller than that will be considered "adequate" by various people.
BTW, all "rivets" should be full-on bolts as well, which means, well, see just above.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 18, 2018 - 06:13am PT
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Indeed - at some point you will have to decide - are you going to be a big wall climber - or a big wall camper?
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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Sep 20, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
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Usually El Cap decides that...he is the BOSS after all.
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Northern California
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Sep 21, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
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"Triple Direct in October" Bring a ledge. If it storms, you won't freeze to death. If someone can't figure out how to pass on that route, they're idiots (e.g. climb a little higher, set a trad anchor).
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Jim Hornibrook
Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
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Sep 24, 2018 - 10:07pm PT
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I would vote for no portaledge for Triple Direct. Did it last September. It was my partner's first El Cap route. We weren't fast but made never climbed in the dark. After doing Free Blast for the credit previously, we jugged and hauled the Heart Ledge ropes, climbed to Pharoah Ledge and fixed one the first day.
The second day we climbed to Crossroads Ledge. It's quite large but a little bumpy
The good news about bivying here is that it puts you in a position to be first at Camp V as you have a head start over those who bivy on El Cap tower on the Nose. You want to be first because Camp V isn't very big. I have slept on both ledges and I prefer the higher one but it's really cozy for two. Blast for the summit on day four and bivy on top. That plan worked very well for us.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Sep 24, 2018 - 10:24pm PT
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sitting in traffic is pretty not-sweet. thought maybe you cali-folk'd be hip to the whole fukkk-congestion thing. but no.
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ECF
Big Wall climber
Ridgway CO
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Sep 25, 2018 - 03:37am PT
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I have to laugh when some says “plan” in relation to doing a trade route in high season.
Unless your plan includes two wasted days waiting for gumbies to realize they are over their heads, you are in for disappointment.
Here is the thing with this question and giving advice on it:
We don’t know their competance level.
We don’t know what the weather will do.
We don’ know what other climbers will do.
So if one of you hard dad veterans says, “don’t take it cuz I didn’t need it”, how are you going to feel if they get stormed on and die, or cause a giant rescue epic?
I’ll tell them to bring it, because the worst thing that will happen is they have to carry it.
Would you tell someone to sail across an ocean without a life raft because “I didn’t need one!”
Well bully for you.
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Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
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Sep 25, 2018 - 06:18am PT
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People should be able to rappel before dying in a storm. When I climbed it the party below never made it to any of the ledges they were supposed to, and slept in hanging belays both nights. At the time (1993) only one party would start up the route per day, and there was no competition for ledge space. No doubt it's more crowded now.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Sep 25, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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Get there first.
Clip it wherever you want.
Tell everybody else to suck eggs.
I like this, new business opportunity, we already have el cap porters these days, how about el cap line holders. Pay some dirtbag to go “realize their dream (however slowly)” at a pace of a pitch or two a day while denying others passage.
When you arrive they magically lose their psyche and Bam!, 2 days of open stone ahead of you. It’d be really handy for IAD attempts, think of all the passing time saved!
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Northern California
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Sep 25, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
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"People should be able to rappel before dying in a storm."
I strongly disagree with this.
[Edited for poor manners.]
Try rappelling in a storm from the upper 1/3 of the route while mildly hypothermic. You'll never make it. Try standing outside on a 50°, windy evening for 8 hours while your friend sprays a garden hose at you. See how long you last.
Evidence:
The guy who was found dead/frozen at the end of his rope 40' off the deck (late 90's), Shortest Straw? He tried to rap to the ground. Never made it.
There have been rescues of people from the Nose who had a ledge fly, but no ledge. Nearly froze.
There have been two Japanese teams who froze to death on the last pitch of the Nose.
Bring a ledge. The folks on this form aren't the ones who will be dealing with a potential storm.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 25, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
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Try standing outside on a 50°, windy evening for 8 hours while your friend sprays a garden hose at you. See how long you last. Translated - you’ve f’d up the last 20 decisions and the wheels have completely fallen off. Reality - your phone these days will give you way more notice than the time it takes to rap from the summit to the ground. If you’re 6 days in on a 10 day route, maybe you buckle down and have the gear for it. Triple Direct? GTFO.
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