Canada is Tariffable

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clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 25, 2017 - 06:09am PT
Canada allegedly has got subsidized wood to USA markets and this little American piggy has slapped it with tariffs(up to 24%). On the other hand when USA milk flows north it is sucked over the border with up to 292% tariffs.

All is not fair in trade. We should institute single-payer healthcare in retaliation.


Trump's tariffs come as the U.S., Canada and Mexico prepare to renegotiate NAFTA, the 1994 free trade agreement. Trump has directed almost all of his NAFTA criticism at Mexico, which makes this decision even more surprising.
When Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau visited Trump in February, Trump said he only expected to be "tweaking" the U.S.-Canada trade relationship.
The tariffs -- also called duties -- ranged from 3% to 24% on five specific Canadian lumber companies. For all other Canadian lumber companies, there's a nearly 20% tariff on exports to the US.
The five firms were: West Fraser Mills, Tolko Marketing and Sales, J.D. Irving, Canfor Corporation, and Resolute FP Canada. West Fraser Mills will pay the highest duty of 24%.
The duties were imposed to create a level playing field for American lumber companies.
U.S. lumber companies allege that Canadian firms are provided with unfair subsidies by the Canadian government.
Canadian exports of softwood lumber to the United States were valued at $5.6 billion last year, according to the Commerce Department.
The Commerce Department said the duties are preliminary and a final determination will be made in September. The U.S. Lumber Coalition, which represents the industry, said the duties will likely take effect starting sometime next week. The Commerce Department wasn't available to clarify.
The administration didn't say why they went after five specific firms or why the others had to pay the 20% tariff. The Commerce Department only said the duties were commensurate to the subsidies the companies received from the Canadian government.
Related: America's NAFTA nemesis: Canada, not Mexico
Canadian firms immediately denounced the decision.
"Managed trade only serves to benefit large timber barons in the U.S. while adversely impacting U.S. consumers and millions of hard-working Americans in the housing sector," a spokesperson for Resolute said in a statement. One firm declined to comment and three others didn't immediately respond.
Canadian leaders also criticized the move.
"The government of Canada disagrees strongly with the U.S. Department of Commerce's decision to impose an unfair and punitive duty," Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, Chrystia Freeland, and Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr said in a joint statement.
The lumber dispute isn't new, and it's not the first the U.S. has imposed tariffs on Canadian lumber.
In fact, it goes back decades. U.S. lumber companies started alleging in the 1980s that Canadian companies have been unfairly subsidized by their government. In 2002, the U.S. imposed a 30% tariff on Canadian softwood lumber, which Canadian firms claimed cost 30,000 jobs at the time.
Canada has consistently denied it subsidizes its lumber companies. The World Trade Organization sided with Canada in 2004 and the two sides came to a temporary agreement in 2006, which expired last October.
Related: Mexico economy minister warns Trump about tariffs
Despite the agreement, U.S. lumber firms continued to allege that their Canadian counterparts had an unfair advantage which allowed them to sell their lumber in the U.S. market at prices American firms couldn't sell at.
U.S. firms declared victory Monday night.
"Today's ruling confirms that Canadian lumber mills are subsidized by their government and benefit from lumber pricing policies," Cameron Krauss, legal chair for the U.S. Lumber Coalition, said in a statement.
Resolute, the Canadian lumber firm, denied it is subsidized. The Canadian officials called the subsidy allegations "baseless and unfounded."
The move came after there was no breakthrough in U.S. talks on Canadian dairy tariffs. Canada has long taxed U.S. diary products. Some U.S. milk exports, depending on the fat content, face tariffs as high as 292%, according to Canada's Agriculture Department.
The Canadian milk tariffs were grandfathered into NAFTA, one of the few areas of trade where major tariffs still exist.
That could change when Canada, Mexico and the US begin renegotiating NAFTA, a trade deal under pressure in the Trump era.
by Patrick Gillespie CNN
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Apr 25, 2017 - 06:18am PT
This hit my feed too. Why is it Canada that is receiving the opening blast in the Trade War he promised ? Is it something that was already in the bureaucratic pipeline? Looks like Canada will pay for the wall.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2017 - 06:22am PT
Looks like Canada will pay for the wall.

At this rate, Canada may make the USA pay for a Northern wall.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Apr 25, 2017 - 06:37am PT
Do you think free trade really exists outside of the drug world?
Every govt props up or subsidizes something.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Apr 25, 2017 - 07:50am PT
Ivanka got booed in Germany. Would be interesting if the Trade War moved in that direction.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 25, 2017 - 08:04am PT
The US and Canada have been fighting over lumber for decades.

1. US timber industry complains that Canada subsidizes its timber industry, thus allowing US consumers to buy cheap Canadian lumber instead of expensive US lumber.

2. US government says, "Damn! That ain't right!" and imposes a tax/duty/tariff on Canadian lumber entering the US.

3. Canadian timber industry complains that the US is effectively subsidizing its timber industry by imposing unfair penalty on Canadian lumber.

4. Canadian government says, "Damn! That ain't right!" and takes the case to the World Trade Organization.

5. WTO rules in Canada's favor, and US Government removes the tax/duty/tariff.

All is well for about three minutes, and then...

1. US timber industry complains that Canada subsidizes its timber industry, thus allowing US consumers to buy cheap Canadian lumber instead of expensive US lumber.

Repeat endlessly.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 25, 2017 - 08:17am PT
What about Canadian wheat, huh?
hippielogger

climber
Townsend,Mt
Apr 25, 2017 - 08:32am PT
One of the immediate affects is that Canadian mills will put on a third shift at their soft-wood processing centers increasing the out-put by about 24-30%
At-least that's been the response in the past, I don't know what the answer is?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 25, 2017 - 08:39am PT
the answer is?

Pass ordinances against building 6000 SF homes out of termite food!

And use condoms, dammit!
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 25, 2017 - 08:59am PT
The real problem is that US loggers can't accept the fact that Canadian loggers get better wood.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Apr 25, 2017 - 09:00am PT
Pass ordinances against building 6000 SF homes out of termite food!


That sounds like a start. Here in nyc, they use steel dimension lumber for fire retardation.

That said, I passed a construction site earlier, they had the whole street torn up to expose all of the pipes, there was an amazing amount of heavy wood in there, much like an old time mine.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 25, 2017 - 11:47am PT
Looks like Canada will pay for the wall.

The American consumer will pay for the tariffs. The cost of imported goods will rise accordingly, and since we can't meet our own demand prices of American made goods will rise as well. A double whammy for the average American.

Protectionism is almost always a failure.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Apr 25, 2017 - 12:38pm PT
Let's put a big fat tariff on this route snagging, Canadian crank meister!


BAd
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 25, 2017 - 01:18pm PT
First, I speaking in more general terms (so I'm probably OT on this thread.) Second, a tariff is a tax in drag, and my Libertarian streak is not fond of using taxes to cause market dislocation or direct personal behaviors.

On the other hand I just looked up the stats on Canadian lumber exports, and I was quite surprised. US imports about $25B annually. China is second at $5B.

Edit: That guy better not bite the rope if he peels.


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 25, 2017 - 01:45pm PT
OK, you hosers, quit whining, eh? Dodge is gonna send you 300 new 'Demons'
so that should zero out all this nonsense. Just don't be stuffing yer
Tim Horton holes when you engage launch control and try for a 9.7 sec 1/4 mile, eh?
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Apr 25, 2017 - 03:41pm PT
Aw, c'mon, cold for sure, but tariffable? - I don't think so. It's got all of that great scenery and nice Canadians.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 25, 2017 - 04:11pm PT
What's it really all about? Here's the _real_ story:

This week, the Trump administration slapped Canada with tariffs of up to 24% on lumber shipped to the United States.

The stated reasons? The Canadian government allegedly provides unfair subsidies to Canadian lumber firms like West Fraser Mills and Canfor Corp.

Also: Milk.

As Trump tweeted, "Canada has made business for our dairy farmers in Wisconsin and other border states very difficult. We will not stand for this. Watch!"

Now for the real reasons, which I think are obvious: Justin Trudeau's handshake, Samantha Bee's insults, and Canada's superior lumberjacks.

First, the handshake. Did you see the viral video of Trump literally jerking people around with his bizarre handshake? It's a habit of his to suddenly pull people forward, mid-handshake, making them practically topple over. A signature Trump alpha-monkey move. He even does it to people he likes. Bet you didn't expect to practically lose an appendage during that handshake, did you, Neil Gorsuch?

But Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, famous for his athletic ability, was well prepared for Trump's maneuver. In February, when they met, Trump tried several times to jerk Trudeau forward, but eventually gave up and let him walk into the White House as the clear handshake victor.

It was all caught on camera. How embarrassing. And Trump isn't going to let that kind of humiliation go unpunished.

Next: One of the most incisive and effective Trump critics — and there are some great ones all around the world — is undoubtedly Samantha Bee. Here are just a few of her descriptions of Trump:
• Orange supremacist
• First-grader with a head injury
• George Wallace in a wig
• Melting hunk of uninformed apricot Jell-O

And can you guess where Bee is from? Toronto. Surely even more infuriating to Trump, she's the only woman hosting a late-night satire show. Can Trump sit idly by and let a Canadian woman come down into our country, taking what should be a man's job, and use her bully pulpit to criticize him? There must be retribution for this grave offense.

Finally, there's the Canadian lumberjack factor. Did you know — and this is a scientific fact — that Canadian lumberjacks are, on average, 25% more masculine than American lumberjacks? Did you also know that some say Paul Bunyan himself was of French Canadian origin?

The insult to Trump's masculinity is just too much. He had to fight back. Frankly, he didn't have a choice. And what's the best way to fight back? By starting a trade war.

Sure, Canada is a NATO ally, a great northern neighbor and a trade partner to the tune of more than half a trillion dollars a year, benefiting both countries. And sure, trade wars usually only encourage one-upmanship, and tit-for-tat retaliation, creating losers on both sides of the border.

But this trade war is going to be different. Why? Because Trump always wins. That's why he's had such a successful first 100 days in office, with landmark legislation, record-high approval ratings, and the ability to draw Americans closer together in a spirit of bipartisanship not seen in decades.

That's if a trade war happens.

If a real war happens, well, I think Alan Alda said it best in the movie "Canadian Bacon": "Surrender pronto, or we'll level Toronto!"
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2017 - 04:21pm PT
Torrential sarcasm Ghost.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Apr 25, 2017 - 07:53pm PT
These fabricated protectionist claims arise every ten years or so. Every time the USA loses in the various courts and tribunals, and is forced to make a face-saving deal.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Apr 25, 2017 - 07:59pm PT
Ekat...That's what Lake Mary road looked like in Febuary...j-werd
Messages 1 - 20 of total 44 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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