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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 27, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
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"SpaceX announced on Wednesday plans to send an unpiloted Dragon 2 Spacecraft to Mars as early as 2018 to demonstrate the technologies needed for landing large payloads on the planet--an absolute necessity for human exploration of our neighbor in the solar system." From http://spaceflight101.com/spacex-red-dragon-announcement
This will become the biggest (heaviest) spacecraft to land on the Red Planet. Aptly named "Red Dragon," the spacecraft is an expanded version of Spacex's Dragon 2 , man rated spacecraft originally designed for America's astronauts voyages to the ISS. The Red Dragon will land ~ 6.1 metric tons + fuel+ cargo on the planet, far larger than even the most ambitious NASA vehicles. The craft will not utilize any parachutes for Mars landing, relying instead on 8 Super Draco rocket engines to make a propulsive landing.
This mission is at the expense of SpaceX and the company receives no monetary compensation from the federal government, but will utilize the Deep Space Network for comms in return for a sharing of data with NASA.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 27, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
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Stooopid Americans throwing their money out into space.
All while millions and millions are suffering around the planet.
Mismanaged stoopid Americans .....
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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Apr 27, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
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I cannot let the irony of Werner Braun dissing a rocket go un-smirked upon.
OK... carry on.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 27, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
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Too late
The Nazis have been there since 1940
They have colonized Mars already!!!
German Secret Societies Colonized Mars in 1940s
In his latest interview on Gaiam TV’s Cosmic Disclosure, whistleblower Corey Goode describes in detail the attempts by a secret German space program to establish bases on Mars during the Second World War era. He claims that during the subsequent colonizing effort, the Germans fought fierce territorial battles with resident Martian species that inhabited large lava tubes that ran throughout Mars subterranean regions.
Goode says that during the early 1940’s, while the Second World War was still being fought, German secret societies –Thule, Vril and Black Sun – had successfully established a base on the moon, and used that as a launching pad for missions to Mars. Travel time between the Moon and Mars was several hours for the Germans. Goode contrasted this with the contemporary secret space program which has cut this travel time down to a matter of minutes!
Goode describes information about the early German colonization events acquired from “smart glass pads” he had access to during his space service as an “intuitive empath” from 1987 to 2007. He says that German documents and photographs, detailing these Moon and Mars missions, were archived on the smart glass pads.
http://exopolitics.org/german-secret-societies-colonized-mars-in-1940s/
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
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The link in the OP has been corrected.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Apr 27, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
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here's the scientific method for raising money in action!
Predict what you might do in the future, to get money today.
(Just like he did with the cars.)
i think they need to throw in that we "need to" get rid of our nuclear waste or else "the planet is gonna die!" syndrome. Then their sure to get more TAX money!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 27, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
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How did Klimmer post as Craig Fry?
Meanwhile stoopid murricans are climbing rocks when they could be saving baby ducks.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 27, 2016 - 09:03pm PT
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That's right save baby ducks.
Send fruitman to Mars as he's just a sterile robot anyways that can report
useless stupid data back into a database for future robots to overheat in .....
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
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HFCS-
Get in line---behind me!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
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The "Red Dragon" name was specifically selected to honor the "Red Planet." A man-rated version is also undergoing hover testing of the propulsive landing system in anticipation of an upcoming "abort system test," where a special Falcon 9 first stage with just 3 engines will be aborted shortly after launch, and both booster and Falcon will land propulsively.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Apr 28, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
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Old McWerner had a farm
On the Red Planet far from harm
E-i-e-i-o
And on this farm you guys should know
His kept his ducks all in a row
E-i-e-i-o
One day he heard some nanny goats
He went outside to spread wild oats (gasp!)
E-i-e-i-o
healyje said please don't do that
My nanny goats will get too fat
E-i-e-i-o
Red Dragon said hey that's okay
Give me goat fat any day
E-i-e-i-o
Serioso, Rodger, I hope they'll have a cabin saved just for you!
Keep truckin', flyin', and climbin', you old goat!
--Ole Salty
edit: Red Dragon likes bacon, too!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 28, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
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healyje said please don't do that
My nanny goats will get too fat
E-i-e-i-o
Too late - porkers...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 28, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
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This is so awesome. I saw the news as well, posted it on my Twitter. Rad!
This is like the moon mission all over, man! Taking a payload of colonization gear to Mars? Woot!!!
Joint venture by private SpaceX and NASA? Kick a$$$$!!
Elon Musk has earned my respect. And Werner Braun? C'mon!!! By venturing outward we gain a greater inner self-knowledge. man.
Nah, that's bullsh#t. But exploring and pushing boundaries like this does give us a greater understanding of lots of new things. And it's really cool.
Some guru once said, "Ya gotta have vision, man".
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 28, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
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Not to spray cold water over all this,
You all do know that we don't have any way of getting the crew back off Mars... so basically right now it's a one-way mission with no return.
The basic problem is getting off of Mars surface, and then getting from Mars back to Earth. The 80% of the total mission mass is fuel... The basic idea is the same as the Apollo missions, you keep the return fuel in orbit around Mars, but unlike the Moon, Mars' gravity requires a large fuel load to land, and to leave.
Right now there is no way of doing this... note that the lander mass is increased by the fuel required to return. This makes things harder... a lot harder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_to_Stay
So it is entirely appropriate for SpaceX and others to propose sending people to Mars, one way, which is currently conceivable (assuming that the problems of radiation exposure is tractable, they aren't right now) but return is not in the cards. Probably the USG shouldn't be involved.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Apr 28, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
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but if it's going to happen (people to mars) it has to start with being able to send a payload there. And then a second and bigger. Eventually you have sent enough that you have the resources there to bring someone back, then you send the people.
or something to that effect. the end goal isn't travel to mars it's travel to and from.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 28, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
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Earth is for pussies.
Real Ducks quack on Mars
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2016 - 10:38pm PT
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Ed-
You need to read the book The Case for Mars, by Dr. Robert Zubrin. There is absolutely no problem with the return, since the Martian atmosphere being primarily Carbon Dioxide can be converted into Methane by means of a very old and established synthesis: the Sabatier reaction. I don't know how to get subscripts and superscripts to work through the Super Topo system, but bear with me.
CO2 + 4 H2 ----> CH4 + 2 H20 ; the reaction is catalyzed by Raney Nickel or other noble metals, Ruthenium, if I recall. The reaction is exothermic and require we furnish Hydrogen brought from Earth. The water produced is subsequently electrolyzed to generate Oxygen (compressed and liquefied), and the Hydrogen recycled into the Sabatier Reaction. All the numbers in the above formulae are to be read as subscripts. This program, named Mars Direct, was proposed by Martin-Marietta to NASA in 1990, and was subsequently modified by an increase in scale. It's now the "official" NASA method for doing Mars. While at Martin-Marietta, Zubrin and his team of engineers built a pilot unit to carry out this chemistry under a NASA contract. The system operated at 93% efficiency, which was remarkable since none of the engineers building the thing were chem engineers or chemists. Overall the process is very efficient in the utilization of Hydrogen, since the mass is a very small proportion of the fuel and oxidizer produced. A kilogram of liquid Hydrogen contains 500 moles, which can through recycling of Hydrogen from the electrolyzed water, be converted to liquid Methane, a terrific propellant. Assuming complete conversion at 100% efficiency with no processing losses, that would result in the availability of 4 kilograms of Methane, plus 4 kilograms of Oxygen. Not only is return trip fuel and oxidizer become available, but also a source of breathable Oxygen, and drinking water.
The recent movie, The Martian, was heavily influenced by The Case for Mars, w/r to mission architecture.
The Red Dragon being sent by SpaceX is entirely robotic, and will be carrying mostly scientific experiments. I'll bet there's a small Sabatier reactor in the experiment package.
I can't recall the year, but Sabatier won the Nobel Prize for his discoveries, one of which is this reaction bearing his name.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Apr 29, 2016 - 12:57am PT
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Illustrating what you've outlined, BDC.
I'm an indifferent chemistry student who depended on his lab partner in HS, but I do understand this process.
http://www.helmeth.eu/index.php/technologies/methanation-process
A bit about Sabatier--
Professor Paul Sabatier who taught at the state college of sciences of Toulouse and Father Jean Baptiste Senderens, professor at the Institut Catholique de Toulouse at a time when state and private higher education were at war, and when the French republic voted the separation of Church and state, were able to go beyond the political events of the time to collaborate and publish an important body of scientific work about heterogeneous catalysis. Together they were awarded the Jecker Prize of the French Academy of Sciences. Partly thanks to that research Sabatier was awarded the chemistry Nobel Prize with Victor Grignard in 1912. Both Sabatier and Senderens were among the first promoters of what is called today “French positive secularism”.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/241120466_Paul_Sabatier_et_l'abbe_Jean_Baptiste_Senderens_temoins_lointains_d'une_laicite_positive
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