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Rolfr
Social climber
La Quinta and Penticton BC
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 29, 2014 - 06:51pm PT
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http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/the-unthinkable
A very bizzare accident, condolences to the climber and hoping for the best outcome.
Has anyone else ever have a similiar system failure? I would be very interested in feedback, especially the comment on gate flutter with wire gate biners. Please save the BS comments for another time.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 29, 2014 - 06:56pm PT
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I'd always though that the longer (60cm?) over the shoulder slings were the cure for the possibility that your biner would unclip in a fall. That Wayne had 2 do that to him, with 5 pieces failing before he hit, is disturbing. I may mean nothing, but what brand were the biners that unclipped? Wish the man all the best in the recovery process.
...there but for the grace of God go you and I....
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 29, 2014 - 07:23pm PT
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Eons ago, when screamers were introduced, the violent staccato vibrations of the screamer popping resulted in several spontaneous cases of ropes popping out of the beaners' basket. It became pro forma SOP to use those things with a locker.
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Oct 29, 2014 - 08:02pm PT
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what a horrible story.
never heard of anything like this. given that of the five pieces that failed, the two that seem from the article to have been the critical ones had carabiners unclip, it makes me suspect that it may have been something that was introduced into the system ala point number four in the r+i article. ie. i wonder if he inadvertantly and repeatedly unfurled a long sling and somehow left it appearing to be clipped, while in actuality it was not.
barring something of this nature this would appear to be some of the worst luck possible. this is so crazy, i'd even be checking to make sure that someone in a factory hadn't built a half static, half dynamic rope or something.
absolutely bizarre, and heartbreaking.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 29, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
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I was an early adopter of the dental floss slings when they first came out and went back to 9/16" and 1" nylon, either tied or sewn.
The tendency for them to turn themselves into spaghetti at the most inopportune moments and a few scarey incidents where the carabiner hung up on them cross loaded played a part in the decision, but it was mostly driven by the short service life combined with the extra expense.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 29, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
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Yes like BVB says ....
We use locking biners for dangerous leads where the potential for gate flutter can appear.
My rack used to have mostly locking biners as free biners on those long run-outs.
I belayed Steve Schneider on Moongerms when he almost died because of the same type of scenario.
RP cable broke in half and the next piece the biner flew off the piece out into space.
He stopped 3 feet above the deck head first from 50 feet up there.
If he would have hit the ground he would have been dead .....
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Oct 29, 2014 - 09:02pm PT
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In a way, I almost don't want to have read stories like this. Guess its good to learn, but scary shit!
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Oct 29, 2014 - 09:30pm PT
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^^^^
yah, in some ways. but having three pieces pull and two more carabiners inexplicably come unclipped, compared to one piece pulling and a carabiner breaking puts this tragedy on another unfortunate level [to me] even if both events had similarly horrible outcomes.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Oct 29, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
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Scary. Like that DNB accident where the whole belay blew, it sure sounds like something that could happen to anyone "doing everything right." It's not at all obvious how the biners unclipped, makes me wish someone would do high speed photography of a bunch of random direction whips on long slings to see if the likely unclipping mechanism would be seen (using a dummy weight of course).
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 30, 2014 - 12:56am PT
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hey there say, ... i had just learned of this from a climber's facebook page...
my prayers for him to get well, and for the finances... :(
and prayers for his family, at this hard hard sad time... :(
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 30, 2014 - 02:49am PT
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i accidently bumped the sling on a green camalot @ the crux and watched the biner slap the rock and neatly unclip. did the same thing once ice climbing.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Oct 30, 2014 - 06:15am PT
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I am thinking wire gates are the problem here. I have been weeding them out of my rack since I bought them.
I sent a DMM biner back to Yates in 1986 after a screamer fall on a bolt chopped groves in it. Nothing broke, just ruined the biner.
I just like hearing gear "became unclipped". That is a thing of nightmares.
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Port
Trad climber
Norwalk, CT
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Oct 30, 2014 - 09:03am PT
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So hard to understand this accident. But based on the analysis from Hank and R&I, I'm changing my rack. Adding 1 or 2 runners with locking carabiners for crucial placements seems wise. With the weight being minimal with modern lockers it's worth it.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Oct 30, 2014 - 09:30am PT
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I am thinking wire gates are the problem here
Can you explain why?
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Bad Climber
climber
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Oct 30, 2014 - 10:25am PT
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@Rick D and others:
Based on the video clip, wire gates seem to offer a minor degree of protection over conventional gates--and I do mean minor. They don't open as widely and they close more quickly than conventional gates in a bouncing/gate flutter event.
Is there any evidence that these thin sewn slings are more dangerous than wider ones? I love how they hang, and they're great for synching some knobs and work great on some threads.
BAd
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 30, 2014 - 10:29am PT
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GIMP, that vid was obviously made by wire gate manufacturers as you notice how the solid gate biner was held at the gate opening end while the wire biner was held at the opposite end.. Which ensures more gate flutter for the solid gated biner, or course.
Perhaps the best way to reduce biner failure is to use rubber snubbers to attach the biner to draws or slings.
Ron, what you are suggesting is a really bad idea.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/videos/play.php?i=20
Best wishes to the climber. I hope he makes a full recovery.
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Rolfr
Social climber
La Quinta and Penticton BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2014 - 10:42am PT
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Hendo, thanks for that video.
In the video the biner attached to the sling, has the open gate end attached to the sling end, not the rope end. If the biner was turned to have the gate at the bottom were the rope is attached it would probably reduce the likelihood of it detaching. Basic rock-craft.
Sport climbing has made me complacent, I used to always have slings with lockers for those worrisome placements , I think it's time to start again.
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