2014 Winter Olympics

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 20 of total 571 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 20, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
I figured I'd start a thread, considering this topic is going to be newsworthy over the next two months.

My opening salvo has nothing to do with athletic competition.

I'm curious about the political ramifications for the host country. Earlier this week, it was announced that Obama will be sending two openly gay delegates to represent the US at the upcoming Olympics. Most people considered this an affront to Russia's discriminatory policies and laws against homosexuals. Additionally, Obama will not be attending the Olympics. Both seem to be a slap in the face to Putin.

On a different note, Mikhail Borisovich Khodorkovsky was recently "pardoned" by Putin. While this was apparently done to make Putin look good, some experts are saying this transparent gesture won't fool anyone.... that Putin is just as dirty and underhanded as ever.

Back when China was preparing for their Olympics, they was a lot of talk about China not delivering the goods. In my opinion, China did a fantastic job. It definitely helped their international reputation.

With Russia, I expect they will put on a very mediocre Olympics. It will not help Putin's reputation. That's just my gut feeling.

What do you guys think?
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Dec 20, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Putin is against gays???

Credit: moosedrool
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 20, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
I'm curious about the political ramifications for the host country. Earlier this week, it was announced that Obama will be sending two openly gay delegates to represent the US at the upcoming Olympics. Most people considered this an affront to Russia's discriminatory policies and laws against homosexuals. Additionally, Obama will not be attending the Olympics. Both seem to be a slap in the face to Putin.

Just wondering which actual discriminatory policies and laws are there in Russia against homosexuals? Homosexuality is not outlawed there as far as I know. They even had some “Gay Pride” marches that were allowed in a few cities. They are usually not allowed though because the population strikes against them and they get violent sometimes, so authorities do not want to deal with this mess.

Free forum for all to post of course, but to mix a beautiful event like Olympics with politics is not a great idea. I am hoping to see a good show from all the nations and athletes competing against each other with class and respect, no matter from which country they are from or which sexual orientation they are.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Dec 20, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-anti-gay-bill-passes-protesters-detained/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia


Get your head out of the sand. Oh and the Olympics ARE Politics.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 20, 2013 - 02:08pm PT


You must be joking. Everything where humans interact is political no matter what the premiss. I understand what you're getting at..... just relax and enjoy the athletic performance. We will, but to ignore that the only reason that any country bids on it at all is for entirely political / economic reasons (Russia no exception) is more than just a little myopic.

Besides what else is there to talk about.... bouldering?


Also Vitaly, if you are unaware of the institutional homophobia / oppression going on right now in Russia, I would imagine you don't pay attention to politics much. To each his own I guess but don't expect your kids to have much of a future - especially if they are gay - if you don't.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
Vitaliy,

Are you Russian?
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 20, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
passes bill that bans the distribution of information about homosexuality to children

What is wrong about passing a bill that bans distribution of information about homosexuality to CHILDREN?
Personally, I think gay pride parades in US are way out of control. Fully nude people walking around during a public gathering is way out of line. I think if people learned moderation it would be much better. Respect gay rights, and respect the other members of community who do not care to see your junk out no matter if you are gay, straight, or a combination.

Are you Russian?
No, Ukrainian.

Also Vitaly, if you are unaware of the institutional homophobia / oppression going on right now in Russia, I would imagine you don't pay attention to politics much.

And yes, I do not follow politics much. To me climbing is a way to keep my head out of that useless pile of sh#t that divides humans all over the world. But how can you be so sure about what media feeds to you if you do not even live there? When I watched Russian TV I was in shock about the kind of sh#t I heard about US. I think the media here does the same to Russia to make it seem way worse than it is. People should find ways to connect vs find ways to call the other country savage.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 20, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
a useless pile of sh#t that divides people all over the world?

Perhaps you can also tell us what units us all over the world? Bouldering perhaps?


Look pal, you might also ask yourself why you are so willing to minimize the actual effect the Russian legislation has. Protect children? From what? Do they also have legislation that targets heterosexual propaganda similarly?

Perhaps because you give this stuff no thought is the reason you are not so discerning.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 20, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
Perhaps you can also tell us what units us all over the world?

Maybe it is international events like the Olympics, where people from all over the world compete in a a (hopefully) friendly and respectful manner. To me Olympics is an event to celebrate unity of all nations. World is whatever YOU make it out to be IN YOUR HEAD. To me Olympics is a great event I used to watch when I was a kid. Without caring about from which country the athletes were, what orientation, they showed some great stories about what some went through to get where they were. Actually in a way I liked how they showed Olympics back in Ukraine, they did not focus on JUST Ukrainian athletes, and showed off and talked about everyone. I liked it that way.

Anyway, Russia is a third world country, so why are you surprised that the way people view the world is different there? In US the Civil Rights Act was passed only in 1964 and blacks were allowed to vote only in 1965! And racism and homophobia still lives on in many communities. If you fill your head with everything that is WRONG OUT THERE IN THE WORLD you will not have enough time to enjoy the beauties of this world. Anyway, I stated my view and do not care to argue any longer. Carry on...
hotlum

climber
Oregon
Dec 20, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
Anyone know the actual conditions right now? Is there plenty of snow at the venues?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 20, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
Maybe it is international events like the Olympics, where people from all over the world compete in a a (hopefully) friendly and respectful manner.

Yeah yeah I got that the first time, but that is how it is for the competitors focusing on performance, not the rest of us. Hell even for them its the politics of doping, cheating, training, who's screwing who, queer or straight, lining up for the big corporate sponsorship..... politics.

Look at it this way - what is so interesting about climbing? It is the act of course, but only in the moment. Everything else is politics, such as this forum. Sure you can pretend to be some sort of aesthetic mystic and claim that the reality in your own head is only the act in the moment but like any other delusional nonsense it requires that you filter out quite a bit of other stuff..... conveniently.

Anyway, for someone who claims no interest in politics you certainly hold some opinion about when blacks allegedly got the vote and the alleged third world status of a nation about to host the Olympics.

whats that all about? Shouldn't you be ignoring all that messy detail?
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Dec 20, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
To me climbing is like meditating. Helps to keep out of useless internet debates about politics. Debate about gay rights in a country where I do not vote and never lived seems especially moronic, to me. There is no reason for me to get worked up over Russian politics. Only reason I opened this thread is because it is titled “2014 Winter Olympics,” and if it was titled “Gay rights in Russia” I would not open it. As I stated above, Olympics to me is an international event where me as a spectator learns the positives about other nations and athletes. It is a place for unity, not a place to point fingers at other participants and laugh because we are so superior. That is why I replied and stated my opinion. When I opened the link to that article I also remembered when in Health Ed class a transgender person came in to speak to our class (Health Ed). I was 14 back than and though it was inappropriate. Don’t see the need for members of sexual minorities to address classes filled with 14 year olds with intention to prove it is normal to cut your penis off and replace it with a vagina/hormonal therapy. So obviously I do have opinions, but tend to avoid useless online arguments with other members of the site because I am not here to talk politics. I am here to get excited about climbing, and I respect opinions of others, even when I do not agree with them. Is that ok with you?
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Dec 20, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
Besides what else is there to talk about.... bouldering?



That would be cool. Bouldering does unite many of us Bruce;-)

I worked right in the middle of the Vancouver/Whistler Olympics. Thought it was gonna be the worst, it was actually an amazing experience. So much fun & so many great people from all over the world enjoying our backyard- kind of.


Gotta say though, out of all the countries, of all the guests, from all around the world-The Russian teams & support were the most pretentious as#@&%es to deal with, it was really quite amazing & actually quite funny. When we would serve them we would play games to see if anyone could actually get them to smile- nobody could! Cheapest fukkers too when it came to leaving a tip! I'm sure it's an elitist thing there to be involved in the Olympics & to them, anybody here who was not was just a peasant or at least that is how we were treated. I'm sure that there is lots of great people there but the impression they left on many around here by the representatives they sent was that people are not equal. I got the vibe that there probably isn't much of a middle class there.


Anyways, there was talk up until last summer about Sochi not having their venues ready & a chance that the previous host would host again? But apparently they just plowed through some villages, banishing the residents from their homes with no retribution or warning & destroyed some wildlife preserves without more than a short environmental assessment to get their hwy in place so it looks like all systems are a go. Apparently the Russian mob makes great contractors & know how to get sh#t done quick! I'm sure they will put on a good show if there isn't a revolt!!


http://nosochi2014.com/news/mgimo-meeting-highlights-russian-worries-about-circassian-campaign-against-sochi-games.php


http://www.outsideonline.com/adventure-travel/europe/russia/The-Zoich-Olympics.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10414885/Sochi-chaos-behind-the-scenes-of-worlds-most-expensive-Winter-Olympics.html





Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 20, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
.... bouldering?

You should know I was just trying to get a rise out of my favorite target Ryan...

And It worked - WOO HOO !!


But I could just as easily have said sledding, or alpine climbing for that matter. Sure you can talk about it, but after a while if you're not talking about the people involved such as your story of the russian big tippers, your just talking stats.

But I'll leave it alone. By the way I checked out your link:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10414885/Sochi-chaos-behind-the-scenes-of-worlds-most-expensive-Winter-Olympics.html

and had to laugh at " massive corruption, shoddy workmanship and spiralling costs"

So hows the mold and leaks going up at the ol' athletes village these days?

I made a killing renting my house out, all on the backs of the Tax payers of Canada. 3 weeks at 40k and when I got back, I swear not a single RCMP officer had even set foot in it.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 20, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
Putin's easing up all right. That's a classic Russian military maneuver
before a big attack. And as regards Khodorkovsky that is a classic pick-pocket's
ploy - distract the mark while you pinch his wallet. The same with the
Sochi games. Putin is using that as a juicy lure for the Chechens to bite on.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Dec 20, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
Pretty low class for obama to send lesbos to represent him in a country where its people have been against homosexuality by a majority. He USES them and who they are as a political tool- slap in the face. Wonder how they will actually be received there. If i were a lesbo i would have told obama to stuff it. Obama never sends BACON over to the ME for gifts.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Dec 20, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
Really? sending over a Champion Tennis Player, one of the Best to ever play the game is a slap in the Face? You've got issues, but we all know that. . .So I guess if the majority of Americans feel that Black people shouldn't vote, it's okay?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Dec 20, 2013 - 06:53pm PT


JCVD, Putin and the Last Emperor in one shot?

Too much asskicking clumped together.








Putin on the Ritz...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Dec 20, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
Good Try Bullwinkle,, but LESBIANS are indeed a slap to Russia, and Putin, period. Now PERHAPS you think it ok for them to be used as a tool like that. Which is what they are, a political tool, and a cheap one at that.

Obama is still butthurt over his Syria war getting the kaibosh by putin.

There is no mistaking the intent here. And it has nothing to do with the acceptability of homosexuality..



edit: Putin on the ritz = HILARIOUS!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Dec 20, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
Russia's politics are f*#ked up. Let's not pretend they aren't.

Who cares if its 2 lesbians? Or 2 black people or 2 PHD's or 2 babies or 2....

If Obama (which, I understand, no one likes right now) chose someone just to stir the pot, and the pot is stirred by the presence of homosexuals, is Obama really the bad guy here?




Maybe because he drone strikes children. Not because he thinks anti-gay policies are lame.
Messages 1 - 20 of total 571 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews