the new San Francisco bay bridge? safe or......

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rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 29, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
http://tinyurl.com/o5rhxcj
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Aug 29, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
As climbers, I think we all know that safe is a relative concept. :-)
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 29, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Terrible decision to use those bolts. They were warned.

Really stupid to let a schedule make them rush such critical decisions.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 29, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
This part is even worse!

“We know the steel they used has an issue with hydrogen embrittlement, which makes the bolts inadequate to the stresses they could face,” he said. “There is also the matter of the 20 main welds that connect the legs of the tower to the tower’s foundation. These are each about 30 feet long, and they have hundreds of visible cracks—and at least one of them is seven inches long. That’s incredibly bad news. Cracks in welds are always a problem, but you usually can only detect them by sonic testing—and these can be seen with the naked eye.”

Who's inspecting this thing and wrote the welding procedures?

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 29, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
the safety factors employed, coupled with
the degress of redundancy in the design
make it incredibly unlikely that a failure
mechanism could trace a path
sufficient to initiate failure.

the media hyped the whole thing up.

by today's standards,
it was a major f*#k up, though.



across the bay on that golden span:
the matrix of that steel system,
if analyzed would not meet
today's engineering standards.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 29, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
I want to hear Pellucid Wombat weigh in here.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 29, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
The new span will be safer than the old span, bottom line.

Some call it ugly. They're entitled to their opinions...

I think its beautiful.

You know that old span is tired. She's really tired. Consider the amount of work she did each day, every day, with nary a break for over 50 years. The ugly step sister to the mighty suspension bridge on the other side of Treasure Island, that truss bridge has been getting it done.

And in her old age? We just patched her up and asked her to do more work than ever before. What a MIGHTY bridge! I love her.

But she's tired, real tired and in the right circumstances she could utterly fail. Next Tuesday she'll breathe a sigh of relief as the commute crosses the new span for the first time. But don't shed a tear for her, not now and not when they dismantle her.

She's earned her retirement and she's earned her place in history.

:-)

Did I tell you I love that bridge?





So I've been graced with the opportunity to watch the evolution of the new span. And living in the Capital the subject of the Bay Bridge scandal of cost over runs, delays and now malfeasance on the part of contractors and inspectors alike (you get what you pay for...) is and has been daily fodder. In excruciating detail the investigative reports that unearthed all this sh#t to the public has been on our minds for months as well.






A tireless Palace Guard, granting access to one of the fabled cities of the world.






Yeah I'm gonna miss that old span, for sure. But the new one is going to come into her own. She won't fail us so easily, either, you'll see. These great public works are virtually guaranteed to produce this sort of crap, hell, we're Americans by god! We INVENTED cost over runs and cheap skate bastard consequences, whatdaf*#kyoutalkin!!!!!!



I think the new span is beautiful and I can't wait to cross her!

:-D

Cheers Bay Area
DMT
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Aug 29, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
They are "completing" the bridge on time, to collect the bonus for getting it done on time.

They will be closing the bridge to replace the bolts later this year.

Old news, tired of this bureaucracy sh#t.
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
I teach structural engineering and have followed the hoopla with a yawn. The new bridge is safer than the old. Even if it wasn't, the exposure to risk is soooo small for any individual as to be negligible. If there is a problem it will no doubt be during an huge earthquake. What is the chance that you, even if you commute over it everyday, will be on the bridge when a really big earthquake occurs? The bridge will probably ok in an event that has a once in several hundred year occurrence.

Acceptable risk in bridge design is different than individual acceptable risk. A bridge failure might kill hundreds which is certainly something society wants to avoid. So, a level of bridge safety that is acceptable to the individual is not acceptable to society. Put another way, if the bridge completely collapsed without warning, many would die but the chance of it being you or me is negligible.

I won't hesitate to drive across it.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
One thing Ayn Rand and I see eye to eye on is the symbolism of bridges and the impact of Great Bridges on the psyche of both individuals and society itself. Even while decrying the corruption and decay represented in the upheaval necessary, a societal projectile vomit stream pretty much... even while trumpeting the decline and fall of western social security, even she would be uplifted by this new span. She'd like it in spite of those who say its ugly and uninspired. She'd be thrilled regardless of union influence, contractor fraud and lazy and crooked government officials, the apparatchiks of her youth. None of that would quell her feeling of wonder and joy on her first pass over the new span.

Because it is one of the Great Bridges of the World and it leads to Treasure Island and the fabled San Francisco beyond. And even Ayn Rand would smile and even clap her hands in delight, as she passed through this mighty portal.

DMT
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
YUR
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
GUNNA
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
???????
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Aug 29, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
half the risk @ double the speed, no?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 29, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
Personal risk is meaningless. It's the loss of a key bay crossing during an earthquake that is at risk.

Some of those bolts cannot be replaced. I think we have to assume they will deteriorate badly over the next 20 years and retrofit accordingly.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 29, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
Only Stupid Americans use bridges....
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Aug 29, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
Further, Bea wrote, “…the problems with this structure are much more extensive than the seismic support bolts. (There are) corroded post tensioning tendons in the concrete girders (and) flawed welds in the suspension span support tower. (There are) lots of identified defects with high uncertainties concerning their effects on performance and safety. And to my knowledge, there still has not been a comprehensive analysis of the potential defects on the ‘safety’ and ‘performance’ (short and long-term) of our new ‘signature’ bridge…”

Everything considered, continued Astaneh-Asl—“and by that I mean the 2,300 faulty anchor bolts, the cracked welds, the corroded tendons in the girders, the basic flawed design—there’s no doubt in my mind that the old bridge is much, much safer than the new bridge. (The new span) should not be opened to the public. All the evidence that Caltrans has indicates this bridge will collapse when the Hayward Fault ruptures.”
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Aug 29, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
Weege, what do u know?!?!?!?

Oh... Ummm..... Please continue to tells us what u know. ;)
WBraun

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
They been working on it for 11 years.

It's already old .......
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 29, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
It's already old , obsolete and in need of a retrofit like a 4 year old computer....
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