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pyrosis
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 8, 2012 - 06:54pm PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Riveting short documentary about the erosion of civil liberties over the last 50 years, and especially over the last 11 years. Thought provoking information concerning the NDAA, the NSA, the DHS, and how Obama is continuing the trajectory started by GWB in 2001 of the raping of your civil liberties in the name of the consolidation of power in the Federal government.
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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I'll watch the vids later this evening, when I have more time. My immediate reaction to the topic however: The govt is very much "in control", just not the control of the citizens at large. Rather it is in the service of a small number of extremely wealthy people - basically the so called 1%. I'm not suggesting this is a conspiracy on the part of some organised cabal such as the Bildenbergers, just that the 1% as a group have interests very different from the rest of us.
More later...
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new world order-
climber
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Fine videos you have posted, pryrosis. They speak many truths.
I wonder how many folks here will even bother viewing them.
Most sheeple haven't a clue as to what's going on. They're more interested in sports, television, and hero/hollywood worship.
NDAA---Look it up.
So goes the new world order. Bah-ah-ah-ah....
http://www.infowars.com
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new world order-
climber
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Dr. F.
Your Obama is a pawn of the new world order. As was Bush, Clinton and the rest of them, save for a few. Do you not see it?
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pyrosis
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2012 - 07:54pm PT
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pyrosis
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2012 - 08:00pm PT
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NDAA is the scariest piece of legislation I have ever read, even worse than the Patriot Act. Now Obama, he signed to extend the Patriot Act. He signed the NDAA into law. He has failed to close Guatanamo Bay. He has cracked down on government whistleblowers harder than any administration in recent history. He has continued BOTH wars in the Middle East and is now sabre rattling for a third. He helps the rich man but lets the poor and middle class down at every turn. And yet he got the Nobel Peace Prize? W T F?? Still think he is the friend of peace, equality, or civil rights?
As far as I am concerned, the Democratic Party is now way right of center, having essentially embraced all of the principles of neoconservatism. There is effectively NO CHOICE when you go to vote. Two sides of the same coin, people need to wake the f*#k up.
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Just watched the films. Very scary and true. I would however have liked to see and hear the role of corporate wealth and power, particularly that of large financial institutions, emphasized a bit more. The problem is not government itself - a strong federal government is still the best mechanism for mitigating the negative effects of large disparities in wealth and power. The problem is that wealth has gained control over the government at the expense of the population. While this is pointed out, it might not be clear for some viewers. The point that people are no longer represented by our government is crystal clear though.
The question looms...What do we do about it?
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Vote with your wallet.
"The secret to happiness is freedom... and the secret to freedom is courage."
Thucydides.
Some things never change.
These times require brave notions.
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Actually the majority of the population is in favor of sensible policies like ending costly and unjust military adventures, universal access to an uncensored internet, due process for those accused of crimes, universal health care, full investigation of financial crimes that led to the economic crisis...The list goes on. Unfortunately none of the candidates from either party care what people want; their allegiance is to those who pour megabucks into their campaigns. As one occupy protester's sign read, "The system isn't broken, it's fixed".
Bruce, If you need to make yourself feel superior by portraying those around you as dumb, maybe you are the one who needs a shrink!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Urmas,
First you say
...a strong federal government is still the best mechanism for mitigating the negative effects of large disparities in wealth and power.
Followed by
The problem is that wealth has gained control over the government...
Your first statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and is dis-proven by history. Try this instead:
"A strong Federal Government is still the best mechanism for wealth to gain control over our government."
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new world order-
climber
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If you need to make yourself feel superior by portraying those around you as sheeple.....
I altered the quote above to show I am guilty of doing this in numerous posts. I apologize.
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Ksolem, Nothing is ever proven or disproven by history. As long as we're alive surprising things can happen.
I stand by my first statement. This is the fundamental reason for a democratic federal goverment. Smaller regional governments are simply not strong enough to counter the power of global corporations which have more economic clout than some states and many countries.
Although it currently functions as you describe, alternatives are possible.
Bruce, I admit it looks that way. There is a lot of misinformation and propaganda out there, not to mention poor education. Still, I believe in people. I don't claim to have a solution, and will hold my nose while voting for Obama, but I am under no illusion that the electoral system, as it now operates will turn any of this s#*t around. We the people will have to over time, organize and coordinate our efforts to demand real change. Nonviolent resistance has accomplished remarkable changes if enough people get behind it.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Urmas, I'm sure you know this. Our Federal Government is not a democracy, it is a Democratic Republic. The intention of our founders was to limit Federal power to a short list of necessary functions, leaving much of government to the states and local democracies, entirely for the purpose of avoiding the situation we find ourselves in today.
It is nice to say "Things could be different." I will argue that history is a great teacher if we study it objectively. Please find me an example where a very powerful centralized system of control has worked out well for a large and diverse nation.
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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A "centralized system of control" was never intended by the founders of this country, nor advocated by me. They designed a government of and by the people. It was to operate with the consent of the governed, but also with their participation. As you know, the power of government was to be balanced and shared among 3 branches of the federal government as well as among the states.
The federal government was created not only to regulate trade, and provide for the common defense against aggressors, it was created to protect the nation against the tyranny of aristocracy which had throughout history ruled according to it's special profit driven interests. The founders were, as you point out, wary of great power wielded by these special interests. This waryness was the basis of habeas corpus, and the Bill of Rights - protections that are being overturned by our present aristocracy. My view is that the founders deliberately charged the federal government with the role of protecting these freedoms from capricious authority and aristocratic tyranny, because it would have the power and reach to do so effectively.
There's no question that the executive branch of the federal government has far too much power today. But the biggest failing of the federal government is not so much the power resting with it, but how decisions regarding the application of that power are made, and by whom.
To answer your question; has a strong central government ever played a positive role in a large and diverse country? I would say, yes - ours did pretty well for about 200 years. Not great, but pretty well, until Reagan got elected and deregulation started in earnest.
Believe me, I'm no fan of big government. Far from it; I'm really an anarchist at heart. I just don't see how we can get there from here as long as the playing field is so steeply tilted by big money. While it may be a bargain with the devil, I think we would be worse off without it.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I lost patience with the first video after about 6 minutes. There are many broad generalizations but very little in terms of specific evidence to support the claims being made. The lawyer part of me kept mentally objecting based on lack of foundation, i.e., they haven't established the underlying facts they're complaining of.
For example, the claim that with the passage of the Patriot Act, et al., we are the most scrutinized society in the history of the world, or something to that effect, is simply ludicrous. Ever read about Mao or Stalin? I understand the general complaint about government becoming less representative and less responsive, but the part of the video I sat through seemed more interested in general conspiracy claims than anything else. A discussion of the general message is needed, but someone else more articulate, better researched and more realistic really needs to make it.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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I had said it years before 911...
"I want my country back"
As a kid growing up I was taught that we were:
the Republic of the United States.
Not any more, now we are the Federation the NWO seed.
GET THE POWER BACK IN THE HANDS OF THE INDIVIDUAL STATES !
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Oooooops I just posted to a political thread.....
I promise not to do that again, here, for a while.
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~kief~
Trad climber
nor-cal
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I will say it,Thanks for the post!
This is what people should be talking about.
these issues bring the tea party, liberals,occupy all to the table.
wake up folks.
Three simple steps
1-pull all your money from banks
2-Stop going to work
3-organize,get involved,get out and in the streets
If you're not mad,you're not paying attention!
This is what democracy looks like.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Apr 10, 2012 - 12:36am PT
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If you have any paranoid schizophrenia symptoms, seek medical help as soon as possible. Paranoid schizophrenia doesn't get better on its own and may worsen without treatment.
However, if you're like most people with paranoid schizophrenia, you may not recognize that you need help or that you even have symptoms. This is because your delusions or hallucinations seem very real to you.
Family and friends, people at work or school, or folks on an internet climbing forum may be the ones who initially suggest you seek help.
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