Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
WTF???
I think Bruce mentioned that some of the people on the Board that oversaw the country closure were Audubon Society supporters or members. Isn't that a conflict?
|
|
michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
|
|
Conflict of Interest.
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
Sure is Blue! In fact, the local Santa Clara Chapter of the Audubon Society has packed the Park and Recreation Commission with three of their members, including self-styled environmental advocate Shani Kleinhaus of the burrowing-owls of Google Park fame. The head of the commission is a member of her group who is a docent leader of bird watching expeditions in the South Bay. But the Santa Clara Audubon Society although affiliated with the California Audubon Society, is definitely an inbred local group with a private agenda. Not one member of the Parks and Recreation Commission is engaged in any form of active outdoor recreation. There is not one representatives from the trail running, mountain biking, rock climbing or horse back riding community. What has anyone of them got to do with promoting outdoor recreation in Santa Clara County? Nothing. Oh well, go to the Access Fund site and say you support a more reasonable and typical seasonal closure.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
Son of bitch!!! I really despise these people...
Typical eco-nazis, who theorize about effective conservation and habitat protection.
|
|
kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
|
Santa Clara Audubon Society isn't even affiliated with the California Audubon Society actually they are listed with the CAS. But when you look at the (US) Audubon society and what it says about peregrines this is clearly a fringe group.
Damn extremists!
This Shani lady has a long history of ignoring science.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Ease up Bluey, there's some card-carrying birdbrains hereabouts too. Their
hearts are in the right place even if their brains aren't always. Your job
is to marshall the forces and the beta to prove them to be out of line. As
we know that isn't an easy task as the powers-that-be would like it just
fine if all the parks were closed to all but rangers and scientists. The
bird people may prove an easy target but your real enemy is the bureaucracy.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
It's been considered but it would make the problem worse. I have too much respect for the birds as well.
The problem isn't the raptors. It's liberal eco-nazis who pretend to know better than scientists and traditional facts regarding closures.
Hold yer fire...
EDIT: We really understand that, Reilly. Especially Bruce who does most of the humping on this issue. As well as Paul from the Access Fund.
|
|
tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
|
|
Ugh!!!
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
All this talk about shooting the birds just plays into the hands of the environmental extremists, who want to portray climbers as barbarians and willful destroyers of the natural environment. They're really trying to lump us together with the graffiti artists and bottle-throwing partyers and basically keep the public out of the area; that is, unless they have a "permit" that will require so long and arduous an application process that no one will have the patience to endure it.
Sorry, but I had to take down Dr. Pagel's April 2nd letter to Don Rocha and wait for the Access Fund to draft an official reply to Pagel's endorsement of a year-long closure. I know an official AF reply is in the works and will post it here when it becomes available, probably next week.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Bruce, that is the most pathetic list of cited literature I've ever seen!
Where did he get his degree, the local beauty college?
|
|
tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
|
|
Underlined I would also add that I have observed greater pressure on peregrine falcons via recreational rock climbers in recent years. For the most part, climbers revel in sharing habitat with peregrines, and have been incredibly respectful and understanding of seasonal restrictions. However, at Summit Rock, this may not be the case; during my visit I noted rather rude graffiti on one of the known peregrine ledges that stated “f*#k the birds.” You have indicated to me that thus far your law enforcement officers have noted considerable disturbance at the site, leading to ‘a couple hundred’ tickets for violations of the seasonal closure, including citations for nocturnal parties at and near the cliff site.
This paragraph is the most twisted as far as logic goes. Just because he saw graffiti that says "f*#k the birds" means that naturally a climber did it? C'mon, hundreds of tickets? How many were given to people climbing? Then to lump climbers in with the gangs that party and tag there at night? Ridiculous. It's like listening to a politician rather than a scientist.
|
|
tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
|
|
Or how about this from the Audubon site: Unlike nesting sites in the Pinnacles, Yosemite and other cliffs favored by both peregrines and climbers, Summit Rock?s climbing routes are all within feet of the eyrie or above it ? I have climbed routes at Lover's Leap in Oct that pass through nesting sites. Also climbed some chimneys at Pinnacles where there are nests.
My understanding of the situation at Summit Rock is that peregrine falcons moved from a larger known nest site (Castle Rock) to this location in 2008. While not proven with robust, empirical data, it has been suggested that increased climbing pressure on the pair at Castle Rock induced abandonment of that location, and subsequent use of the Summit Rock site.
Without tagging the birds and tracking them how do they even know these are the same birds? If they were nesting at Castle Rock why was there not a closure?
|
|
tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
|
|
Bruce, I agree that there should be some kind of public hearing where the county can see what kind of demographic uses Summit Rock for recreation. I think they would be surprised to see how many climbers are professionals, students, scientists, and most important taxpayers and voters.
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
Right on, Kev. I have sensed throughout this entire negotiating process with County Parks that the authorities and lobbyists regard climbers as belonging to the same class as the bottle-breakers, partyers, grafitti artists and drunks. I still remember the smirk on the face of the mayor of Saratoga when I replied to her question about why climbers enjoyed climbing at Summit: A shared sense of group participation and pleasure. I got the feeling that she was sneering because she thought we were a bunch of anti-social stoners and drunks who went out there to have collective orgies or something like that. Also, there's a matter of budget constraints and expedience I think: It's simple easier for County Parks to write a few signs and issue a few tickets than to empty the garbage can at the back of Summit and a one patrol drive up there at night. I still remember at our meeting at Lake Vasona last summer, one of the County Parks Rangers shouting, "We haven't got a budget to patrol Summit." Closing Summit appears to solve a problem but the net result is that partyers, drunks and taggers are going there in increasing numbers because rock climbers aren't there to tell them to stay away.
The total lack of understanding of climbing as a relevant historical recreational activity in the Bay Area demonstrated by the politicos and bureaucrats is simply appalling. They're not only out of touch with nature; they seem totally out of touch with their own physical bodies. What kind of society do we live in were people are in the living room, at the office, at school or in therapy, but never have walked down a trail or got wet out in the rain? End of sermon!
|
|
couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
They make it sound like there is no alternative. Closure or death to the birds. Is that true? If not, you folks should be emailing the folks that they are sending emails to.
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
couchmaster: the Access Fund does have an active site with forms for sending letters of complaint regarding the closure to the proper authorities. I think Kev listed it above. The more complaints the greater likelihood they will listen to science and common sense and rescind or modify the order.
Kev going to the next meeting of the Santa Clara Parks and Recreation Commission in San Jose does sound like a very good thing to do. But we have had other lawyers and professional people talk to them, but they continue to lump climbers into the category: Personae non Gratiae. Obviously, for them, it's a black and white, us versus them knee jerk reaction. But in an election year, numbers do matter. Keep those letters coming in from the Access Fund site.
|
|
kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2012 - 07:35pm PT
|
couch - that's what the access fund link above is for.
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
who pretend to know better than scientists
Kinda like the climate change denial folks Ringsting?
Anyway...good luck to you folks in the trenches up there fighting for a reasonable set of regs. A stacked board is tough, been through it with county commissions stacked with developers, very frustrating.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!