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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 5, 2011 - 03:10pm PT
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ok, since it's Labor Day and this is a bit of a controversy locally, I'll ask the age old question:
Who does the bulk of the house cleaning?
A local survey of loved ones indicates that women are expected to do the bulk of the house cleaning, and do, and often resent the fact that the men who are cohabitating do not do their fair share.
As a man, I am the first to admit that my cleanliness standards are not what the women in my life would consider acceptable. Not only the clutter, but just the grunge. The household chores are, for the most part, divided up by inference and not by explicit plan... a male desire would be (I assume) to have all this written down... but lots of house hold chores are done "as they need to be done, can't you see that!"
I suspect that women, by and large, to the bulk of the cleaning and are expected to by our societal norms. And that men are out doing their thing, their part, which is still asymmetrically rewarded...
How do you deal with this in your household, past, present, future?
Happy Labor Day...
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apogee
climber
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I don't know about societal norms, but in our home, I am definitely the one who drives household cleanliness standards. That's not to say I'm a 'Felix Unger', nor is it to say my wife is 'Oscar Madison', but I do have a stronger investment in a clean, organized home, though I may not do all of it myself.
For years and years and years I used to do all cleaning myself (home & car)- usually during my single years, when I had the time to do such things. Nowadays, we hire a housecleaner to come in every couple of weeks- even though we are far from flush with cash, it's money well spent as we can both spend our time doing other things we'd like to do, and reduce the tension of the expectation that each other do some cleaning. Still, daily chores such as dishes and trash/recycling remain something we work towards mutual acceptance.
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ruppell
climber
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Generally whoever has the time. Lately that's been me. Some things seem to be more acceptable for me than my girl. Like I don't really clean the bathroom that often. So she tends to do that. I do like a clean kitchen though so I tend to do that. All in all it's a trade off of who can tolerate what and for how long. Back to the dishes now!
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dcostell
Trad climber
OC
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Depends a lot on social class as well as career arrangement in the family, and then also on how you ask the question and how you account for household tasks that occupy full attention (washing floors say) or partial attention (running laundry, where there's 30-minute blocks of time where you can do something else).
In upper-middle class US-American families where both spouses have full-time careers, one estimate is that women spend 15hrs/wk and men 10hrs/wk on "primary" or full-attention housekeeping tasks and then another 10hrs/wk for women in "secondary" or partial attention housework and another ~5 for men in that same category
Of course, the question is how to weight split-attention housework stuff. From a research standpoint if you spend 20 minutes out of an hour sorting, loading, and emptying the washing machine and 40 minutes killing time waiting for it to finish by rights that's 20 minutes of work, 40 minutes free.
But subjectively experienced, that's not "free time" because you're tied to the task and anything else you do is constrained by its completion.
There's also big differences in how mothers and fathers in dual-career households experience "family time" (excursions, movie nights) or "spouse time" (dates w/ spouse) -- men are much more likely to count it as leisure, while women are more likely to count it as work because they are more likely to be the go-to in arranging childcare, doing scheduling and that kind of planning work necessary for the activity to succeed. Women are more likely to view leisure as being "when no-one can make demands on my attention or time"
The above is from lecture notes so YMMV.
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coastal_climber
Trad climber
British Columbia
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I do. Neatness is probably a bigger part of it.
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dcostell
Trad climber
OC
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That's a broader perspective. My wife and I divvy up household tasks through solving riddles, laying elaborate traps, and rolling dice in games of chance. We call it "Dusting & Dishes"
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Living basically alone, I do ALL the cleaning.
When I was married, I learned to keep the house cleaner as a way to keep resentments down. I volunteerily began sitting down when I pissed, so the spray would not make cleaning the bathroom such a chore. She did the cooking. I prepped the food and washed the dishes. We both did and continue to do child care as equally as possible. Now that our daughter is off to college, it's a mute point. I usually dealt with composting/recycling ("Taking out the garbage!"). Every so often, she'd need to "clean the house" because her needs for cleanliness were higher than mine. And when she'd go away for a few days, I'd ALWAYS "clean the house' to her standard, so she'd feel welcome and cared for and be able to relax in our home without resentments or feeling like she had to do some cleaning.
Today I bought a mop because I have to clean the house I just moved out of. Ironic that it was/is Labor Day!
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coastal_climber
Trad climber
British Columbia
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my roommate has turned into a lazy f*#k
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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BrassNuts has been accused by some (Tarbuster) of being fastidious when it comes to the cleanliness and organization of our home. He is "very organized" and neat. I am too luckily though he more so than I.
The major difference is "the pile." I admit, I like having a pile. My pile is next to the bed and is always there. It can be small, or sometimes a bit larger. It has some clothes, books, a shoe or two... There is something very satisfying about my pile. It drives him nuts. :)
Due to equal effort, we have a neat, clean and very well organized home (complete with labels...on most everything). I couldn't imagine living with a pig.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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That would be fun to hear from the spouses..
But what about all the other things. Like
Who cooks?
Who shovels the snow?
Gathers, cuts and splits and stacks the firewood? And brings it into the house?
Who maintains the yard?
Who maintains the autos?
Who maintains the sporting equipment?
Who maintains the house, ie plumbing and such?
Who takes care of the pets/kids?
Who fixes the computers?
There are lots of things besides cleaning.
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pocoloco1
Social climber
The Chihuahua Desert
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“A maid. A man needs a maid.
A maid.”
Neil Young .... so true
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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I would prefer a cook. I hate cooking.
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apogee
climber
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Who cooks?
She does. She's waaaaay skilled in that dept.
Who shovels the snow?
Me.
Gathers, cuts and splits and stacks the firewood? And brings it into the house?
I do most of the stacking & outside organizing, we split duties bringing into the house.
Who maintains the yard?
Me, except for her garden.
Who maintains the autos?
Me. Used to do all repairs myself, nowadays, we bring them out for most repairs (similar rationale as housecleaners).
Who maintains the sporting equipment?
We maintain our own stuff.
Who maintains the house, ie plumbing and such?
Me, me, me...mos def.
Who takes care of the pets/kids?
She takes primary care of pets.
Who fixes the computers?
We maintain our own rigs, though I have more skillz in that dept.
Nice list, Moosie.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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I'm clean, but have a maid clean once a week. The place is spotless and I'm happy paying her to help keep it that way. She is very happy for the job. I am out of town more than in town so if friends need a place to stay I'm never troubled with trying to do the laundry when I happen to be home for one hour a week. Everyone is happy!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2011 - 05:27pm PT
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"THE PILE" yes, I know it well... I live by the adage: "don't file it, pile it" which expands my zone of unhappiness into the workplace...
...our perception of what we do is sometimes at variance with those with whom we live, so perspective would be great, I suspect that we make accommodations, or try to, to justify not doing somethings... the perspective from the others would be interesting...
and how are the tasks of living divvied up? how are the equivalences calculated... if I spend many weekends insulating the attic (without stepping through the ceiling!) how does that figure into the equation? etc...
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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my expectation of clean vs. picked up differs from my other half. i think it has to do with when she wears her contacts. i.e. the shower gets cleaned by me more than her.
not sure that addresses the Ed question tho. :)
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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While camping in Tuolumne, we overheard the couple in an adjacent campsite discussing who would do the dishes. This went on for a while. Finally, the guy said "I did all the leads".
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zeta
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Who cooks?
Who shovels the snow?
Gathers, cuts and splits and stacks the firewood? And brings it into the house?
Who maintains the yard?
Who maintains the autos?
Who maintains the sporting equipment?
Who maintains the house, ie plumbing and such?
Who takes care of the pets/kids?
Who fixes the computers?
interesting list...the thing is that some cleaning needs to happen daily while other stuff is infrequent (plumbing repairs)
I think household work is still very gendered, even among supposedly progressive/egalitarian couples...it seems to me that most men I know tend to do the 'infrequent' chores (garage, auto, fixing something in the house when it's broken) while women are still overwhelmingly doing the laundry, cooking, indoor cleaning (sweeping, mopping), childcare, and grocery shopping.
I know there are exceptions. It's always negotiated among couples but i still think there's a LONG way to go....
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Funny this post should appear today!
Honey!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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I provide the semen and the funding. She deals with everything else.
No one complains, so neither should you.
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