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MH2
climber
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Yeah, I wonder where they are at on the guitar-pickin bot?
Eliza did pull people in pretty easily - I saw the public using it at the Toronto science museum in the late 80s - but like an only-pretty woman she could turn your head but not keep it turned.
Eliza had a hilarious conversation with Racter published in Mathematical Games or Recreations of Scientific American.
When parallel processing started coming on I asked Bill Thompson about it and all he said was, "I don't deal in architecture."
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Numbers 23:19, **God is not man, that he should lie,
or a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Has he said, and will he not do it?
Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it**?
Proverbs 6:16-23, There are six things that the Lord hates,
seven that are an abomination to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers.
My son, keep your father's commandment,
and forsake not your mother's teaching.
Bind them on your heart always;
tie them around your neck.
When you walk, they will lead you;
when you lie down, they will watch over you;
and when you awake, they will talk with you.
For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light,
and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,
‘All that the Lord says, that I must do’?”
I could not go beyond the command of the Lord my God to do less or more.
2 Kings 11:1-2, Now when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the royal family. But Jehosheba, the daughter of King Joram, sister of Ahaziah, took Joash the son of Ahaziah and stole him away from among the king's sons who were being put to death, and she put him and his nurse in a bedroom. Thus they hid him from Athaliah, so that he was not put to death.
Matthew 2:16, Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men.
Matthew 4:1-11, Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”
But he answered, “It is written,“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,“‘He will command his angels concerning you,’and“‘On their hands they will bear you up lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,“‘You shall worship the Lord your Godand him only shall you serve.’”
Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.
Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection
Matthew 16:21-23, From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.” But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Come on now. Is there not a single believer capable of having an open mind and saying "Even though I believe it is true, it is still possible that every book about God, Jesus, Zeus, Apollo, Auraka, Lao-Tien-Yeh, Februus, Shiva, (boy, there are thousands of different gods), as well as all of the word-of-mouth passed down for centuries, could be all made up by humans." After all, everyone will agree that there is a lot of evil and ignorance in the world. Why not accept that some of that evil and ignorance could have resulted in people making up stuff about God for various human reasons and now you are all stuck with it.
After all, everyone here will admit to human frailty. At least up to the point of their faith. At that point, there is strangely no amount of humbleness and everyone seems to believe that they are right and that all other religions, and the atheists, are all wrong.
I am an atheist but I will easily admit that since I am human and have limited knowledge of the universe and have a lot of instincts and other pre-programming running in my head, that I could easily be wrong.
So step up to the plate, believers, and admit that you could be wrong because you are human and have ego and greed and all that other stuff that makes you a really bad resource for reliable information.
or don't. It just makes you look completely unenlightened to wallow in your own arrogance.
:)
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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"After all, everyone here will admit to human frailty"
Exactly! That's why I believe!
Man is the least needed thing in existence, we didn't do anything to help it along,
In fact if we weren't here it would be a cool place?
We come and are gone, and are no more?
It's good to be an Atheist!
Psalm 4:4-8, ponder in your own hearts on your beds, and be silent. Selah
Offer right sacrifices,
and put your trust in the Lord.
There are many who say, “Who will show us some good?
Lift up the light of your face upon us, O Lord!”
You have put more joy in my heart
than they have when their grain and wine abound.
In peace I will both lie down and sleep;
for you alone, O Lord, make me dwell in safety.
Trust in the Lord with All Your Heart
Proverbs 3, My son, do not forget my teaching,
but let your heart keep my commandments,
2 for length of days and years of life
and peace they will add to you.
3 Let not steadfast love and faithfulness forsake you;
bind them around your neck;
write them on the tablet of your heart.
4 So you will find favor and good success
in the sight of God and man.
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.
7 Be not wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord, and turn away from evil.
8 It will be healing to your flesh
and refreshment to your bones.
9 Honor the Lord with your wealth
and with the firstfruits of all your produce;
10 then your barns will be filled with plenty,
and your vats will be bursting with wine.
11 My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline
or be weary of his reproof,
12 for the Lord reproves him whom he loves,
as a father the son in whom he delights.
13 Blessed is the one who finds wisdom,
and the one who gets understanding,
14 for the gain from her is better than gain from silver
and her profit better than gold.
15 She is more precious than jewels,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.
16 Long life is in her right hand;
in her left hand are riches and honor.
17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness,
and all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her;
those who hold her fast are called blessed.
19 The Lord by wisdom founded the earth;
by understanding he established the heavens;
20 by his knowledge the deeps broke open,
and the clouds drop down the dew.
21 My son, do not lose sight of these—
keep sound wisdom and discretion,
22 and they will be life for your soul
and adornment for your neck.
23 Then you will walk on your way securely,
and your foot will not stumble.
24 If you lie down, you will not be afraid;
when you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.
25 Do not be afraid of sudden terror
or of the ruin of the wicked, when it comes,
26 for the Lord will be your confidence
and will keep your foot from being caught.
27 Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due,
when it is in your power to do it.
28 Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come again,
tomorrow I will give it”—when you have it with you.
29 Do not plan evil against your neighbor,
who dwells trustingly beside you.
30 Do not contend with a man for no reason,
when he has done you no harm.
31 Do not envy a man of violence
and do not choose any of his ways,
32 for the devious person is an abomination to the Lord,
but the upright are in his confidence.
33 The Lord's curse is on the house of the wicked,
but he blesses the dwelling of the righteous.
34 Toward the scorners he is scornful,
but to the humble he gives favor.
35 The wise will inherit honor,
but fools get disgrace.
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MH2
climber
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So step up to the plate, believers,
"Throughout the four years I lived in Cwm Pennant, the sense grew on me that here was a landscape where every field-corner was thick with ghosts, where generations of men had played some cosmic chess-game, arranged and re-arranged stones into the temporary shapes of two or three hundred years, borrowed from here to build there, let frost and wind collapse and the grass wipe clean, and though the summit ridges could preside, curved and swooping, effortlessly elegant, each stone piece their own bequest, they too were subject to the rules of the game, timed by the pulse of the sun."
Jim Perrin (writing a review of an animation short?)
"The white cliffs glared around, the sea lapped in gently towards us, we shrugged our shoulders and went off to climb."
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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squid et. el.- "come on believers"
Take a close look at your self, your life! That hole in your heart(lack of contentment, satisfaction, loneliness, despair, bitterness etc, etc)emptiness. U can't fill! It will always be there! You've tried drugs, sex, money, sports, whatever...it won't go away! Nothing can fill that void in your soul. That is the void were God's Spirit wants to unite with your spirit, and will bring an indescribable piece to your soul.
When I was 8yrs old, I called on Jesus to help me, I had heard nothing of this peace, or the Prince of Peace. But that is what filled me that afternoon, His peace. And I walked away from certain death.
He promises to answer, to reveal Himself to whomever calls on His name! Until you sincerely ask Him to do so, you will be ignorant of His love for you.
I agree with all the human frailty's you described above rectosquid, except the part about "you could be wrong" about the relationship I have with Jesus Christ!!
It is the most personal relationship you can have with anyone here on earth(or for eternity).
If someone asked you to deny the existence of your father, mother wife, son or whomever...would you? It is that personal, and more so...what Jesus Christ offers! To know Him, have a personal relationship with Him.
Some day you will know the truth. But for now, you are wallowing in your own ignorance/arrogance alone bitter and hateful etc. In spiritual darkness(speak of being unenlightened)!! Sad but true.
EDIT: "alone, bitter and hateful" strife, malice, deceit...not spcecifally you rectorsquid(for I don't really know you), but common to mankind!!
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Nice try, anyway.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Rectorsquid- "that I could be easily wrong"
I do respect you for admitting this!
But I can't lie, even if it meant loosing friendships or loved ones. Or castigation and even certain death.
Peter denied Him three times initially. But when he met the resurrected Christ and was filled with His presence(Spirit)at Pentecost, Peter went on and was martyred. As were eleven of the twelve Apostles, all of whom ran away in fear during His Crucifixion.
I am talking about a personal relationship, nothing can change it.
Take the next step and admit to God that if He is who He says He is, you want to know Him. If Jesus Christ realy is God, and died for you, you will give your life to Him. He promises eternal life. It is that simple. Tell Him you don't know if He(Jesus)realy is God. But if He is, come into my heart(life).
Think about it. What do you have to loose? You have Heaven and Eternity to gain.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Take a close look at your self, your life! That hole in your heart(lack of contentment, satisfaction, loneliness, despair, bitterness etc, etc)emptiness. U can't fill! It will always be there! You've tried drugs, sex, money, sports, whatever...it won't go away! Nothing can fill that void in your soul. That is the void were God's Spirit wants to unite with your spirit, and will bring an indescribable piece to your soul.
I basically find this sort of projection both sad and insulting. It's a poor repackaging of all the 'original sin' bullshit - that, gosh darn it - you're just not good enough. It makes me almost want to cry for the person that believes it; that their life is so sad that they think everyone's life is as sad as theirs. That everyone has a 'hole' or void that needs feeling because they do. Hard to imagine a more sad projection than this.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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wes- "Ya all have no idea..."
I often think of how bizarre/out-there it must all sound.
But I am talking simply about a personal relationship. Period!
Come to your own conclusions about all the rest later.
That has nothing to do with it. No one can make you believe, or deny anything. Come to your own conclusions. I did.
But first you need to ask Him if He is real!!
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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healy!
I was speaking in general terms, if your content with your life fine!
Take a look at the world, youth, drugs, suicide...dead at thirty. Credit card debt, the "American Dream!" Jonesen...striving for what? Never satisfied. Fear of death...your the one living in a delusion!!
Open your eyes, take a look around you!
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Like I was saying healy, look at the world(people)!!
What do you have to offer(not everyone is as perfect and content as you!
What do you have to offer them??
I have Jesus Christ...just an offer. Their decision.
What have you got?
All you have is "There is no God" And go ahead and admit it...you despise the name of Jesus Christ! And anybody who claims to know and love Him!
Is that all you have to offer??
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oh, you're talking about all those conditions that those poor humans 'chose'. Like the choice of a child to be brought to term by an alchol and meth addicted mother so that he or she will have diminished capacities and impaired decision making capabilities for a lifetime bad 'choices'. The design doesn't get more intelligent than that. And hey, why does such an intelligent designer include so many congenital defects and failures in their designs? Is the idea that god just likes to be entertained by endlessly random protein defects?
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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healy!
I too have spent years working in hospitals, have held preemies in my hands(Martin Luther King Hospital, South L.A.). And have asked those same questions.
Became very bitter and disillusioned in my youth after seeing my best friend(a black kid) being kicked and beaten by racist white kid in high-school. And then he walked five miles home to die on his front porch(waiting for his mom)!
And many other things. I new Jesus was God, after what happened to me at 8yrs old there was no doubt. But I just couldn't understand why He created such a messed up world!
I use to sneak out of my house at night and walk the streets, telling God that when I died I was going to spit in His face when I saw Him! I was a very bitter young man by the time I reached 18.
And all I can say is, call it an epiphany or anything you want. But I saw His holiness and mans(my)darkness. How He had nothing to do with 'progression' of man. Man is responsible! Your so quick to give man all the credit for everything good, and then turn and blame God or any one who believes in a god for all the evil.
Your a very bitter person.
I can relate!!
EDIT: Your also caring and compasionate and rightfuly angry. I do understand!
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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The Parable of the Lost Sheep
Luke 15:1-10 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.”
So he told them this parable: “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
The Parable of the Lost Coin
“Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
The Parable of the Prodigal Son
Luke 15:11-32, And he said, “There was a man who had two sons. And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.’ And he divided his property between them. Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living. And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything.
“But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants.”’ And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.’ And they began to celebrate.
“Now his older son was in the field, and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. And he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and sound.’ But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, but he answered his father, ‘Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!’ And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.’”
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Rokjox!
RIGHT-ON BRO!!
You are describing the Prodigal Son!
And Gobee is quick to illustrate!
Good work Fellas!!
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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The idea that humanity has something like “free will” is a stretch. Humans are directed by evolutionary need: the need to reproduce, to protect a territory for that purpose, etc. We are driven by those needs that are often at odds with the imposed morality of any given mythological system. To say we have the free will to choose between a moral dictate born of some mythology and the desires and needs imposed upon us by nature is ridiculous; our choices are weighted by forces over which we have almost no control. It seems “god” has set up a system of entrapment not one of free will, otherwise how is it that we are all sinners?
Paul states in Romans 11:32 that we are only condemned so that god may grant us salvation. This is where Augustine gets his “O felix culpa.” Sin is a function of “gods” pleasure in granting us grace.
Free will is ultimately the believer’s justification for natural evil: evil must exist so that we might have the opportunity to choose. The problem is that our very nature often compels us in our choice. It all makes little sense.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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“free will” is a stretch
Man does not live by bread alone, but we get hungry and there is a lot of stuff we can take in, but with God it's all good, not always fast food?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Bitter? I'm not bitter. I am, however, confused about "the designer's" intent when it comes to genetic and congenital birth defects.
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