STONEY POINT

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Levy

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 22, 2016 - 12:25am PT
"I have asked numerous people their opinions and I can honestly say everyone was genuinely excited and agrees with me."


I'm a regular at Stony and many of my friends are too. I never heard anybody asking around before those misguided bolts were put in. Local consensus is to not bolt routes for leading at Stony Point. I don't know who you discussed this with but it wasn't anybody I know.

Ian, do you really think that you are the first person to want to install bolts at Stony? They are an eyesore and what gives anyone the right to bolt a climb that they did NOT establish? If you develop a new line and want to bolt it, fine. But stay the hell off previously established routes with your bolts.
IanR

Sport climber
VAN NUYS
Aug 22, 2016 - 02:26am PT
I know i'm not the first to want to lead climbs that were established on lead.
IanR

Sport climber
VAN NUYS
Aug 22, 2016 - 03:07am PT
Lets be fair, an eyesore at Stoney is the gallons of graffiti that cover the rock and the trash and glass all over. You have get right up to the climb to see those bolts.

Can I ask what you guys see as the downside. I've climbed pin scars both on top and lead now and I have to say that lead is more fun. Everyone else who's has climbed it had nothing but good things to say.

I honestly fail to see how it detracts.
IanR

Sport climber
VAN NUYS
Aug 22, 2016 - 03:21am PT
it's sustainable
it's more fun
it's better training
it's faster so you can climb more

We are not talking about bolts in a trad crag here.

These climbs were not established on bolts, I know, but they were led from the ground up, and top roping is far from that.

you can still top rope if you want to

Levy

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 22, 2016 - 05:30am PT
So who are these "numerous people", you speak of??

It seems to me that you did what you wanted to, rather than spoke to anybody who's been climbing at Stony for a while. Did you run this by any of the locals? They would have given you some perspective on what the ethics are.

In addition, your chains are too low to reach from above if you wanted to top rope the route.
rincon

climber
Coarsegold
Aug 22, 2016 - 06:27am PT

I have asked numerous people their opinions and I can honestly say everyone was genuinely excited and agrees with me. It is my opinion that its the minority that would call foul for local ethics.
Woot?

Sounds just like Sloan...he asked 'numerous' people. That's complete bullsh#t. Apparently he only asked newbies on their first visit to Stoney.

That climb has been soloed and top roped a million times.

I'd be interested to hear why you chose that particular route Ian? Btw Ian, you're not the first person to try and reto bolt at Stoney. One time someone created (chiseled) and bolted a climb immediatly to the right of Maggie's Farm. This has happened before and will happen again, unfortunatley.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Aug 22, 2016 - 08:43am PT
I am trying to add to the enjoyment to this place we all love. I hope we can have a discussion about this.


IanR....SpaGetty.

You guys miss the point of the entire place.

If this stays then what?

Four really awesome leads on Beethoven??? That one can do in 30 min and move on?

The bolts are going to go. Period, end of discussion.

If you wish to redeem yourselves go and pull that sh#t.

Before I and my friends go and do it for you.

Good day.

Guy Keesee
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Aug 22, 2016 - 10:32am PT
Pull the bolts.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 22, 2016 - 10:53am PT
I can't say I support these bolts.

While I've taught many hundred newbie climbers here, for the most part, bolts have not enhanced the experience. All of my climbing classes have been TR's, and those TR bolts have been conveniences, not necessities. I'm sure there are routes that are exceptions.

But sport bolting fundamentally alters the sandstone, and weakens it. I don't support injuring the rock. I don't support taking what is there, and "improving" the rock.

Ian, what is problematic, is that you approached this as an individual desire, as opposed to including the experienced Stoney climbing community in the decision. Particularly the many veterans. AFTER THE FACT does not count.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2016 - 10:57am PT
Hi guys, I bolted this. I realize this is a big point of contention. I would first like say that I did quite a lot of research on the glue-ins and have a background in construction. The holes were meticulously cleaned, brushed, and blown out. I used Quickrete high strength two part anchoring epoxy, and stainless steel Wave bolts. I also color matched the rock as best I could. This is by far the best way to sustainable bolt this quality of sandstone, and unlike expansion bolts, this type of bolt doesn't weaken the surrounding rock structure and should last decades. Now to the question of if they should stay. I want to say I have great respect for the history of Stoney Point. I have lived in the Valley my entire life and the Chatsworth Hills and Stoney have been my stomping grounds. I meant no disrespect to by doing this, In fact the opposite. I am trying to add to the enjoyment to this place we all love. I hope we can have a discussion about this. Thanks





I led "Machine Gun" on Ian's bolts. In the time It usually takes to set up top rope. It was led, followed, cleaned and moving on. Stoked, gave me a little more time to climb. I've long hoped someone would take modern bolting techniques and apply them to some routes in my backyard. Bummed its been met with so much negative feedback. I hope ya'll reach out to Ian and resolve the issue properly.


Yes, the first part of the post dealt with the type of bolts I used, however I acknowledged that the issue of "IF" is what I wanted to have a conversation about. I didn't miss the issue, I got the trivial part out of the way. Gritstone is a completely unrelated topic.

My argument is that most all climbs at Stoney only exist because someone hammered a piton in a hairline crack which is now a hand or foothold. The entire place was used as a pin cushion for legends to find new techniques and hone their skills. The stone is too soft to lead with gear. The point is that most climbs here were FA on lead.

You are correct their are bolts all over the tops of these climbs. So what makes some bolts ok and others not. There is an aid line with about 14 bolts that nobody seems to care about. There are a few climbs that have rusted old bolts that nobody climbs purely for safety reasons.

I have asked numerous people their opinions and I can honestly say everyone was genuinely excited and agrees with me. It is my opinion that its the minority that would call foul for local ethics. One of the people threatening to chop the bolts said bolt away across the street just not here. Why would it be ok to bolt across the street on pristine sandstone but not somewhere with a pre existing pin scars and bolted lines.

dude I gotta copy these comments! priceless..



There is an aid line with about 14 bolts that nobody seems to care about.

dude I took on that project because some misfit had taken the original aid line out then replaced it with wood screws glues with JB weld..
I was not happy about adding big bolts I wanted it original with star drives.. I did consult the locals and we thought about it for a few weeks before the project. You just cant go and add bolts whenever you want..
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Aug 22, 2016 - 11:07am PT
you can still top rope if you want to
Like I said, missing the issue completely.
BlueWing

Social climber
SCV, Ca
Aug 22, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
Although I do follow this form, I don't normally post.
I am local, and old. I have been climbing here since junior high in 65. I am not a good climber but I had a great time climbing the easy stuff. I climb because I like it. I have nothing to prove to anyone including myself. I climb purely because it makes me happy.
IMHO ... There are so many reasons why bolted routes are not good at stony point.
Some of these reasons are to protect the historical value of stony point as a world destination for climbing. One of the more important historical values of this place, is to prepare young and new climbers for bigger and more dangerous climbing. I'm thinking of big wall climber for the first time. Stony point has prepared many many many climbers for big wall Tradd climbing. There is no need for sport routes at this place. Everything here is either bouldering, or top roped climbs. Top roping will teach you to set natural anchors. This is very important when you climb the big stuff. There are chains and bolts for some routes. But we encourage natural anchors over these chains. Preserve the Rock and produce better climbers. The guys that take this on ... To me ... Are my current day John Muir ...
So ... Please, no bolts ...
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 22, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
And another thing

IanR,how old are you?how long have you been climbing rock
Outdoors is not the gym,
The joy is in the process.
Generations, every 20 yrs have resisted the temptation to phook the place up.
Keeping purity, Risk, with real consequences, is important.
You don't need to understand
this is not yours to trash and leave in your review mirror.
We stand united coast to coast some places deserve bolting in an unrestrained fashion
And some places need to be
Kept bolt free......

Learn to climb, not hang on gear
Don't pull out on flakes that flex
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 22, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
I give up. Almost never will we see cognitive dissonance at such a level.

I think the example I made of the gritstone was valid and should have been at least a little thought provoking. But our buddy Ian has attention deficit disorder. I'll say it again, go watch "Hard Grit." Real climbers doing real climbs in an area which remains boltless. Sh*t man, do you think the Stoney Pointers are being hard on you for bolting a years old classic? Try that in Britain. Best not to show up at the pub again unless you like being hauled away in an ambulance.

You speak of pin scars as if that justifies bolting. Piton craft is part of climbing's history. No one places pitons at the Point today. If someone did they would get the same or a bigger ration of Sh*t than you have. You're looking back when you should be looking ahead. So today bolting routes at Stoney might look futuristic to you. It's not. It deprives future climbers of the opportunity to do things their own way. To imagine instead of having to connect the dots.
matty

Trad climber
under the sea
Aug 22, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
I sure don't support lead bolts @ stoney. I went climbing on sunday (not@ stoney) and was happy to hear the bolts were chopped. I even got to see a few of the offending bolts and congratulated the chopper. If/when other bolts appear at Stoney they will be chopped...maybe this time without warning so the offender can't reclaim his hangers. Stoney doesn't care who you are, your bolts will be chopped.


(the good news is my wrists didn't hurt after climbing...for those who know this is a much needed step for me!!!)
Levy

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 22, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
Matty, glad to hear your wrist is ok. When you said it had kinda popped and had possibly reinjured it, I felt bad. It was good to have you out at the new crag yesteady and I look forward to seeing you there again soon.

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Aug 22, 2016 - 07:08pm PT
Matty..... Hi, those were different bolts. The chopped bolts the Kid had are from some commercial enterprise.... Somebody's trying to make a Rappelling + zip line adventure experience. That sh#t needs to be addressed also. The kid took offense to some bolts getting slammed into the middle of a Reardon classic.
Those were not even for climbing... Just some big ass bolts in the middle of a classic problem.

See you out again, heal up good.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2016 - 07:32pm PT
Guyman Two different mad bolt vandelizer stories?
Levy

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 22, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
Pyro, Yes there is a new guy named Klaus who runs some sort of guide service. He put up a zip line off the top of the back wall and placed 2 bolts into a boulder due East, to anchor the downward end of the zip. One of the new members of the tribe took umbrage at this and chopped the bolts yesterday. He brought them to show us yesterday and received high praise from us for his prompt and selfless deed.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
Lol!

Good job boys!


Holy sh#t i gotta get out of the ocean to do some sandstone traverse..
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