Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 16, 2014 - 08:53am PT
This a silly way to keep this flame going.

Point taken Werner, and you explained your view directly.

It doesn't take a weatherman to know that the weather is screwed up, and it doesn't take a marine biologist to know that what we're doing is ruining the oceans.


If you tap into your basic understanding of how the system we call Mother Earth works, then you know that the problems we bring are huge, and we'd better get a clue about it--soon. The graphs and such, it's just proof that what we feel down deep can be proven to be the state of affairs.

The Chief, rick--they live in paradise where there is plenty of water and the weather is fair. Perhaps this is how they view the state in rose-colored glasses.
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 16, 2014 - 09:09am PT
If you tap into your basic understanding of how the system called Mother Earth works,

Now, define in which time frame you make such a vague proposal. Man's or Earths?


Man's is minuscule to say the least.

And Earth's, well, it is undetermined. More in the range of infinite.

August 2014 or any other month in man's concept is comparable to less than a grain of sand on all the beaches and ocean floors of the planet as far as time goes.




Told ya... Ed Hartouni just can not answer a simple YES or NO question. Or, is he simply floundering to avoid doing so. I say the latter.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 16, 2014 - 09:11am PT
The Chief, the depth of your foolishness never ceases to amaze me.
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 16, 2014 - 09:13am PT
And who the fk are you KaveMAN?


Oh, forgot, some anomaly that periodically starts super dumbass threads such as this one on the inturdnet and then posts his political ideological jiberish on it in order to perpetuate the ill fated agenda.

Wow... I should indeed take your word as something important.

Now, what do you do daily to benefit society, KaveMAN?
Sketch

Trad climber
Not FortMental
Sep 16, 2014 - 09:30am PT
On the upside, it turns out last month was not the hottest August on record!!!!

Hope everyone's preparing for global cooling.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 16, 2014 - 09:30am PT
I agree with all of your list of human made ills Werner. Except the extremes of weather, which have always been and always will be. It won't be the weather that visits extinction upon mankind, instead it will be stupidity that forces humans to live in disharmony and contrary to the intelligence bestowed upon us. Stupid humans.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 16, 2014 - 10:59am PT
And who the fk are you Chief?


Oh, forgot, some anomaly that frequently bumps super dumbass threads such as this one on the inturdnet and then post his political ideological jiberish on it in order to perpetuate it.




see we're all in the same drum circle..
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 16, 2014 - 11:11am PT
Wade... when are you going to put in your order?

PM me...
snarky

climber
vantuna
Sep 17, 2014 - 07:17am PT
I know this has nothing to do with "climate," but we set another record! We're rocking it!
kpinwalla2

Social climber
WA
Sep 17, 2014 - 11:03am PT
http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2014/09/17/what-everyone-should-know-about-climate-change/
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 17, 2014 - 11:14am PT
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM

Sep 16, 2014 - 11:12am PT
STFU, as5hole.

This of course coming from one with the deepest practical experience & knowledge of being one his entire existence on this planet.

Poor Fartmental. Time to invest in some XXXL briefs as well. Appears your current ones are digging deeper and deeper into your azz as each day passes.


Too bad you have absolutely nothing of substance to add to any thread on ST. Ever. Just your constant hypocritical azz sucking ideological perpetuating bullshet.

Must run in the water over there in New Mexico.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
you want to see some funny sh#t check this out. A bunch of Red state Chuff / Sumner clones try to look smart and school the arrogant brainiac at that old theater of the absurd, the House "science" comittee.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/09/18/3568720/john-holdren-science-house-climate-hearing/


It would be funny that is, if it wasn't so tragic.

America that is.

Tragic

Tragic failure of moral fortitude

not to mention stupid. I mean, how else do you explain electing these clowns into office?
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 18, 2014 - 08:37pm PT
I'm only going to jump in here to address the "what everyone should know about climate change" videos in that link.

I'm not taking sides on the climate issue, I just can't stand it when people use "consensus among scientists" or "scientists all agree" to back their argument, whether or not I am on their side. That is very very rarely, if ever, true.

Sorry, it drives me nuts and immediately reduces the credibility of anyone who says it.

Carry on
Norton

Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
Sep 18, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
what wording should they use, LimpingCrab?

can't say consensus...

how about just stating the facts?

Powell, 2013[
James L. Powell, a former member of the National Science Board and current executive director of the National Physical Science Consortium, analyzed published research on global warming and climate change between 1991 and 2012 and found that of the 13,950 articles in peer-reviewed journals, only 24 rejected anthropogenic global warming.[26] This was a follow-up to an analysis looking at 2,258 peer-reviewed articles published between November 2012 and December 2013 revealed that only one of the 9,136 authors rejected anthropogenic global warming.[27]


or one could just read for themselves, this Survey of Scientists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveys_of_scientists'_views_on_climate_change
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
Sorry, it drives me nuts and immediately reduces the credibility of anyone who says it.

When something has been studied for as long and broadly across all capable nationalities and many diferent disciplines and specialties of basic rersearch as has occurred with climate change and a strongly supported consensus forms, then builds in strength, that becomes the single credible basis upon which the general public and policy makers can form their own opinion.

In fact, to do otherwise - to ignore or dissmiss te relevance of such a significant consensus of expert opinion, in favor of outlier opinion or the opinion of the non expert - is where you should direct your skepticism of credibility.

Or maybe you could explain the logic of trusting outliers and idiots instead of the consensus?

I mean other than the worldwide conspiracy to milk research grants
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 18, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
Norton, that looks like a vast majority, not "all" or complete agreement (consensus).

I agree, when decisions have to be made you have to go with someone and the opinion of vast majority would be the best bet.

As a scientist (aspiring, I barely finished grad school) I just don't like it when the majority try to shame the outliers by throwing around words like consensus. It reminds me of Whitney calling Muir a dumb sheep herder for thinking glaciers carved yosemite. That's only a climbing related version of a story that's played out in science countless times. Look up nobel laureate Daniel Shechtman and quizicrystals. There was a really recent example with genetics and medicine that I can't think of off the top of my head.

Not even the professors in my climate change classes or advisors for my research used absolutes.

Science would be boring if everyone agreed on stuff. Debate, it's fun, but don't claim everyone agrees with your side, whatever it may be.


Edit: Norton, I was told on two unrelated grant proposals to work the words "climate change" in if I wanted to get funded. I did, it worked.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2014 - 09:32pm PT
Since when are the majority consensus "shaming" the outliers? The outliers challenge the consensus and they better be built of sturdy stuff, and if they are then in due time their hypothysis will become the consensus. That is the scientific process, process implying a methodical progression through time.

But their is no need to lecture the pro's on the rocky road of challenging the consensus. The question of relevance here is how the inexpert - you, me, Sumner, Chuff, Obama , Inhoffe and the vast majority of us - should consider the relevance of a consensus of expert opinion in a field where we have no other competent choice other than to rely on expert opinion.

Again, you'd have to be a fuking idiot or worse to ignore or dissmiss the expert consensus as the best knowledge then throw your faith in with idiots, charlatans and snakeoil salesmen.

Proof for that is best found in the postings of Chuff, Sumner, Sketch and a host of other predictable right wing wackjobs
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 18, 2014 - 09:53pm PT
True fortmental, that was the best I could do when I was trying to think of a climbing analogy. I should've just stuck with the quazicrystals since I'm blanking on my favorite example.

Bruce, you're right, shaming was a poor choice of words. I would call it more of a fallacy; claiming "everyone agrees" as a means of winning an argument.

The majority of scientists do agree on climate change, but PLEASE don't say there is a consensus. Encourage people to investigate their opinions, suspicions or beliefs, that's much better for scientific advance than saying "ok, now we're positive and everyone agrees, don't ask questions, move on and hold what we've told you as truth."

Anyway, all I'm saying is that scientific consensus is virtually a myth, and it should be.

Anthropogenic climate change, on the other hand, is very likely and we should take better care of the planet. But it's also EXTREMELY complex, so certainty and consensus is not likely. Atmospheric chemistry hurts the brain
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 18, 2014 - 10:15pm PT
Fortmental, p-values cannot equal 0


Please don't say ALL scientists agree on something while debating a scientific topic, that's all I'm suggesting. For example, say the vast majority of scientists believe there is anthropogenic climate change and most data backs them up. That would be a true statement and I'm not arguing that.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
consensus
[kuh n-sen-suh s] Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun, plural consensuses.
1.
majority of opinion:
The consensus of the group was that they should meet twice a month.
2.
general agreement or concord; harmony.

I think most of us would agree on the above definition as it is used here, particularly "general agreement" which allows for some variation but the nuts and bolts are agreed upon. Such as that fossil fuel burning is the primary driver of recent climate change. I also think that challenge to that is welcome and required. However, at this point the challenge lives or dies on merit, which is reflected and represented to us poltroons by the institutional consensus of opinion. It is the one significant measure by which we can judge the veracity and strength of the best understanding of something we cannot measure ourselves.

When this process is not respected, the assumption is that the outlier opinion is of equal validity simply because "everyone is entitled to their opinion". The significant problem is that this "right to an opinion" is a cultural entitlement that has been instilled into the fabric of our society. The result is the more loud and assertive you are, the more respect you get, like Donald Trump or Sarah Palin or the blowhard down the street with his gun collection.

How any of those morons ever made it onto the house science comittee is an idictment of this cultural imperative of the Fox News Fair and Balanced every opinion is deserving of respect.

The outliers to the consensus bloody well should get a rough ride, if for no other reason to seperate the wheat from the chaff..... or in our case the Chuff

I get the feeling you are on board as well and I don't mean to be antagonistic but i really think this consensus thing is a vital metric specifically for the unqualified. The only thing we need to know is how trustable the institutional consensus is. If the answer is "good" or "best" then the consensus is our tool of judgement.
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