Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Messages 26441 - 26460 of total 29664 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 16, 2014 - 11:11am PT
Wade... when are you going to put in your order?

PM me...
snarky

climber
vantuna
Sep 17, 2014 - 07:17am PT
I know this has nothing to do with "climate," but we set another record! We're rocking it!
kpinwalla2

Social climber
WA
Sep 17, 2014 - 11:03am PT
http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2014/09/17/what-everyone-should-know-about-climate-change/
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 17, 2014 - 11:14am PT
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM

Sep 16, 2014 - 11:12am PT
STFU, as5hole.

This of course coming from one with the deepest practical experience & knowledge of being one his entire existence on this planet.

Poor Fartmental. Time to invest in some XXXL briefs as well. Appears your current ones are digging deeper and deeper into your azz as each day passes.


Too bad you have absolutely nothing of substance to add to any thread on ST. Ever. Just your constant hypocritical azz sucking ideological perpetuating bullshet.

Must run in the water over there in New Mexico.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
you want to see some funny sh#t check this out. A bunch of Red state Chuff / Sumner clones try to look smart and school the arrogant brainiac at that old theater of the absurd, the House "science" comittee.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/09/18/3568720/john-holdren-science-house-climate-hearing/


It would be funny that is, if it wasn't so tragic.

America that is.

Tragic

Tragic failure of moral fortitude

not to mention stupid. I mean, how else do you explain electing these clowns into office?
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 18, 2014 - 08:37pm PT
I'm only going to jump in here to address the "what everyone should know about climate change" videos in that link.

I'm not taking sides on the climate issue, I just can't stand it when people use "consensus among scientists" or "scientists all agree" to back their argument, whether or not I am on their side. That is very very rarely, if ever, true.

Sorry, it drives me nuts and immediately reduces the credibility of anyone who says it.

Carry on
Norton

Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
Sep 18, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
what wording should they use, LimpingCrab?

can't say consensus...

how about just stating the facts?

Powell, 2013[
James L. Powell, a former member of the National Science Board and current executive director of the National Physical Science Consortium, analyzed published research on global warming and climate change between 1991 and 2012 and found that of the 13,950 articles in peer-reviewed journals, only 24 rejected anthropogenic global warming.[26] This was a follow-up to an analysis looking at 2,258 peer-reviewed articles published between November 2012 and December 2013 revealed that only one of the 9,136 authors rejected anthropogenic global warming.[27]


or one could just read for themselves, this Survey of Scientists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveys_of_scientists'_views_on_climate_change
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2014 - 09:03pm PT
Sorry, it drives me nuts and immediately reduces the credibility of anyone who says it.

When something has been studied for as long and broadly across all capable nationalities and many diferent disciplines and specialties of basic rersearch as has occurred with climate change and a strongly supported consensus forms, then builds in strength, that becomes the single credible basis upon which the general public and policy makers can form their own opinion.

In fact, to do otherwise - to ignore or dissmiss te relevance of such a significant consensus of expert opinion, in favor of outlier opinion or the opinion of the non expert - is where you should direct your skepticism of credibility.

Or maybe you could explain the logic of trusting outliers and idiots instead of the consensus?

I mean other than the worldwide conspiracy to milk research grants
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 18, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
Norton, that looks like a vast majority, not "all" or complete agreement (consensus).

I agree, when decisions have to be made you have to go with someone and the opinion of vast majority would be the best bet.

As a scientist (aspiring, I barely finished grad school) I just don't like it when the majority try to shame the outliers by throwing around words like consensus. It reminds me of Whitney calling Muir a dumb sheep herder for thinking glaciers carved yosemite. That's only a climbing related version of a story that's played out in science countless times. Look up nobel laureate Daniel Shechtman and quizicrystals. There was a really recent example with genetics and medicine that I can't think of off the top of my head.

Not even the professors in my climate change classes or advisors for my research used absolutes.

Science would be boring if everyone agreed on stuff. Debate, it's fun, but don't claim everyone agrees with your side, whatever it may be.


Edit: Norton, I was told on two unrelated grant proposals to work the words "climate change" in if I wanted to get funded. I did, it worked.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2014 - 09:32pm PT
Since when are the majority consensus "shaming" the outliers? The outliers challenge the consensus and they better be built of sturdy stuff, and if they are then in due time their hypothysis will become the consensus. That is the scientific process, process implying a methodical progression through time.

But their is no need to lecture the pro's on the rocky road of challenging the consensus. The question of relevance here is how the inexpert - you, me, Sumner, Chuff, Obama , Inhoffe and the vast majority of us - should consider the relevance of a consensus of expert opinion in a field where we have no other competent choice other than to rely on expert opinion.

Again, you'd have to be a fuking idiot or worse to ignore or dissmiss the expert consensus as the best knowledge then throw your faith in with idiots, charlatans and snakeoil salesmen.

Proof for that is best found in the postings of Chuff, Sumner, Sketch and a host of other predictable right wing wackjobs
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 18, 2014 - 09:53pm PT
True fortmental, that was the best I could do when I was trying to think of a climbing analogy. I should've just stuck with the quazicrystals since I'm blanking on my favorite example.

Bruce, you're right, shaming was a poor choice of words. I would call it more of a fallacy; claiming "everyone agrees" as a means of winning an argument.

The majority of scientists do agree on climate change, but PLEASE don't say there is a consensus. Encourage people to investigate their opinions, suspicions or beliefs, that's much better for scientific advance than saying "ok, now we're positive and everyone agrees, don't ask questions, move on and hold what we've told you as truth."

Anyway, all I'm saying is that scientific consensus is virtually a myth, and it should be.

Anthropogenic climate change, on the other hand, is very likely and we should take better care of the planet. But it's also EXTREMELY complex, so certainty and consensus is not likely. Atmospheric chemistry hurts the brain
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 18, 2014 - 10:15pm PT
Fortmental, p-values cannot equal 0


Please don't say ALL scientists agree on something while debating a scientific topic, that's all I'm suggesting. For example, say the vast majority of scientists believe there is anthropogenic climate change and most data backs them up. That would be a true statement and I'm not arguing that.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
consensus
[kuh n-sen-suh s] Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun, plural consensuses.
1.
majority of opinion:
The consensus of the group was that they should meet twice a month.
2.
general agreement or concord; harmony.

I think most of us would agree on the above definition as it is used here, particularly "general agreement" which allows for some variation but the nuts and bolts are agreed upon. Such as that fossil fuel burning is the primary driver of recent climate change. I also think that challenge to that is welcome and required. However, at this point the challenge lives or dies on merit, which is reflected and represented to us poltroons by the institutional consensus of opinion. It is the one significant measure by which we can judge the veracity and strength of the best understanding of something we cannot measure ourselves.

When this process is not respected, the assumption is that the outlier opinion is of equal validity simply because "everyone is entitled to their opinion". The significant problem is that this "right to an opinion" is a cultural entitlement that has been instilled into the fabric of our society. The result is the more loud and assertive you are, the more respect you get, like Donald Trump or Sarah Palin or the blowhard down the street with his gun collection.

How any of those morons ever made it onto the house science comittee is an idictment of this cultural imperative of the Fox News Fair and Balanced every opinion is deserving of respect.

The outliers to the consensus bloody well should get a rough ride, if for no other reason to seperate the wheat from the chaff..... or in our case the Chuff

I get the feeling you are on board as well and I don't mean to be antagonistic but i really think this consensus thing is a vital metric specifically for the unqualified. The only thing we need to know is how trustable the institutional consensus is. If the answer is "good" or "best" then the consensus is our tool of judgement.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 18, 2014 - 11:16pm PT
Fair enough. My comment wasn't climate change topic specific. I saw my pet peeve in the video and brought it up. I still think claiming there is a consensus or that "all" scientists believe something is a poor tool for an argument when someone is trying to prove that their view is the correct one (it's also usually not true). Just use simple, good old fashioned evidence. Crap, I brought it up again and can't help myself!!!

Sorry for the thread drift.


Sketch

Trad climber
Not FortMental
Sep 19, 2014 - 04:35am PT
Always fun to watch the faithful kool-aid drinkers scurry about when someone challenges warmist dogma.

It doesn't matter that the "agitator" supports the science. If they don't embrace all aspects of the faith... 100% (97% won't do), several of you will set them straight.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Sep 19, 2014 - 04:47am PT
3% of climate scientists agree that there is no Global warming.

You got that going for you.

No "C" word.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 19, 2014 - 07:28am PT
sure thing sketch. We are all perfectly aware of what constitutes "fun" for you and various other variations of sociopathic personalities. Its like the climate - we know its happening but without finding out why, we can't do much about it. However when we learn why something is happening - such as Machavellianism being the primary motivator in your pursuit of "fun" - then it becomes possible to separate that which is of value and that which is not.

Similarly we know that many people hold the idea of expert specialization and consensus decision making in contempt, but without knowing why we can't separate their Chuff from the Ed. If the opinion of the 3% is equal to the 97% then also equal is the opinion of anyone including someone as incompetently out of his element as Sketch.... which is why Sketch always steers the discusion to where he has some skill.

There is I think a reason that when Sarah Palin or Herman Cain or some other blithering idiot claims "Maverick" status that it strikes a cord in the heart of stooges. I mean if those idiots can plow their own furrow anywhere they chose, so can all the other idiots and nobody can stand being branded an idiot no matter how true, so what better way to deny fact than simply demand respect for any old opinion?

And thus was born Fox News!
Sketch

Trad climber
Not FortMental
Sep 19, 2014 - 07:45am PT
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2014 - 08:06am PT
Norton, that looks like a vast majority, not "all" or complete agreement (consensus).


limpingcrab, I agree with you. When I hear "consensus," I cringe because I know what that word means. Same with "all."


But "vast majority" doesn't quite capture the incredibly lopsided number of scientists who believe that climate change is causes by none other than us.

How about this:
The massive, overwhelming, and mind-blggling majority of climate scientists believe ...
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 19, 2014 - 08:16am PT
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2014 - 08:06am PT


How about this:
The massive, overwhelming, and mind-blggling majority of climate scientists believe ...

How about this..

The majority of Christians, 2.2 BILLION humans, currently believe that jesus christ is the son of God and that God exists.



Does that make that statement a correct, true and real fact?


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Check out this, what I believe to be a bad to the bone C02 emitting mofo!!!



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