Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 26101 - 26120 of total 28446 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:05am PT
Cheers DMT!
We've had a stretch of beautiful weather here in BC.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:10am PT
Roy Spencer, a favorite scientist of climate denialists, in a recent blog post went steps further than even he has before -- some might say, jumped the shark. By suggesting that nature is causing the observed rise in atmospheric CO2. To a nonscientist that might sound technical, but to scientists it's the equivalent of a dentist who says Pepsi is good for your teeth -- the anthropogenic CO2 rise is that well established.

Coincidentally, the World Meteorolgical Organization issued a new report this week noting that CO2 levels surged last year at the fastest rate since 1984, setting new modern records.

"The Greenhouse Gas Bulletin shows that, far from falling, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere actually increased last year at the fastest rate for nearly 30 years," said Michel Jarraud, secretary general of the WMO....

"We are running out of time."
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:14am PT
So, how do almost all scientists (except RS and a few others) know that CO2 is rising? The first definitive evidence came from the Mauna Loa measurement series called the Keeling Curve. Here that is, up through last month:



Some nonscientists objected that was just Mauna Loa, but no, it's now been replicated from other stations worldwide:

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:23am PT
And how do they know that rise is caused by humans? Here the evidence is very diverse and all points in the same direction. Including isotope ratios that fingerprint the excess CO2 as coming from geological sources (i.e., fossil fuels) rather than recent biological activity; detailed studies of sources and sinks including the fact that oceans too are absorbing more CO2, measurable drawdown of atmospheric oxygen corresponding to what's burned....

Or just the simple logical question, where else do you think that 30 gigatons of CO2 we're releasing is going?

Somehow none of the science had registered with RS. But something else did.
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:25am PT
Larry, thanks for confirming the total fail regarding Hansen's original 1988 model.



Higher C02 and steadily lower Natural Forcing/Observed Temps totally negates any of the three scenarios in his model.



Perfect
Sketch

Trad climber
Not FortMental
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:28am PT
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:29am PT
Then someone, among the chorus of reasonable voices telling Spencer he had jumped the shark, pointed to Law Dome. This detailed CO2 record going back a thousand years, from air trapped in Antarctic ice, was published in 1996 and has become very well known by all climate scientists, as other studies confirmed its conclusions. Astonishingly, Spencer admitted not knowing about it until a reader told him on his blog.

So here is the Law Dome series, now you know about it too (if you didn't already).



And here is Law Dome record together with the global instrumental measurements to bring it up to date/



You can't miss that takeoff at the Industrial Revolution. Even Roy Spencer could see that.
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:31am PT
Thanks Sketch, that is clearly starting to indicate and totally negate the original theory of rising C02 = Warming temps.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.




Hey Larry "Chiloe", can you post the temps at Law Dome to see where they are at in conjunction with the rising C02.


Should look something like this....





Hmmm... look at them temps. Up and down and all around. They have yet to reach the high point set back some 5-600 or so years before the Industrial Revolution actually began AND the C02 levels were far below anything observed in modern time. Must have been all that dust created from the White Knights and the several RC Inquisition Campaigns throughout Europe.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2014 - 07:48am PT
The Chief fails to understand the difference between global temps vs. local temps.

Surprising? Nah.
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:50am PT
KaveMAN fails to understand how bullshet graphs posting by you asshats to proliferate your ideology and agenda have a completely different and truer side to them.

Evidenced by the latest rising C02 Law Dome Graph posting by Larry Hamilton, Professor of Sociology at UNH. Strange how he neglected to show the Temp/C02 pattern going back 2000 years.


Odd at best wouldn't you say, KaveMAN.


Here is Larry's....






And here is THE REST OF THE STORY....







LOOK at them temps back 800 years ago. WTF drove them to levels higher than current day observations? Surely wasn't the low levels of atmospheric greenhouse gas creating C02 nor anything MANKIND did.

But shhhsssssssssssssssssssssssh. Don't post that side of the story. Can't let the sheep know that Nature is more powerful than anything Mankind could ever dish out. That would certainly undermine the propaganda machine that puts money your pocket if you are a proliferator of the AGW bullshet.
Sketch

Trad climber
Not FortMental
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:00am PT


Hmm.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2014 - 08:01am PT
Strange how he neglected ...


Actually The Chief, I find it telling how you neglect the many arguments that have been posted proving that the climate is changing faster than ever and that man-made emissions is the cause.

I do see the very localized temps rising in your graph. Interesting.

Where do you think 2014 will come out in the the hottest years on record?


The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:03am PT
Hey KaveMAN, please do show anywhere on this thread where I once stated IT IS NOT WARMING.


Just one post.


Actually The Chief, I find it telling how you neglect the many arguments that have been posted proving that the climate is changing faster than ever

"EVER"?????


So you are now going to insinuate KaveMAN that this is the first time in the planets 4.6 Billion year life that temps and/or C02 have risen to these levels at the current rate?


But then again, "ever" to you means back to 1880. 134 something years. wow, that is something.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2014 - 08:05am PT
The Chief, show me one post where I said you "stated IT IS NOT WARMING."
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:09am PT
Go ahead KaveMAN or anyone, post up anywhere where I once "ever" posted that it IS NOT WARMING. Just one!!!



ASSUMPTIONS are not allowed.






PS: I never have. NEVER! I believe that Sketch, Rick S and the other "denialists" here are in the same, "Boat".
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2014 - 08:14am PT
Hmm.


Hmm.









(I gotta get to work Sketch, but don't let that stop you from continuing this thought provoking conversation.)
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:17am PT
...post up anywhere where I once "ever" disputed that it IS NOT WARMING. Just one!!!

and the last 17 years? what have you said about that? or are you assuming some time period over which k-man is referring too?

you have definitely said there has not been warming over the last 17 years.



as for Judith Curry's choice of what papers to appear as a co-author on with the BEST collaboration, she has chosen not to be on one... here's their list:

Geoinfor Geostat: An Overview 2013, 1:1

A New Estimate of the Average Earth Surface Land Temperature Spanning 1753 to 2011

Robert Rohde, Richard A. Muller, Robert Jacobsen, Elizabeth Muller, Saul Perlmutter, Arthur Rosenfeld, Jonathan Wurtele, Donald Groom and Charlotte Wickham

Geoinfor Geostat: An Overview 2013, 1:2

Berkeley Earth Temperature Averaging Process

Robert Rohde, Richard Muller, Robert Jacobsen, Saul Perlmutter, Arthur Rosenfeld, Jonathan Wurele, Judith Curry, Charlotte Wickham and Steven Mosher

Geoinfor Geostat: An Overview 2013, 1:2

Influence of Urban Heating on the Global Temperature Land Average using Rural Sites Identified from MODIS Classifications

Wickham C, Rohde R, Muller RA, Wurtele J, Curry J, Groom D, Jacobsen R, Perlmutter S, Rosenfeld A and Mosher

Abstract
The effect of urban heating on estimates of global average land surface temperature is studied by applying an urban-rural classification based on MODIS satellite data to the Berkeley Earth temperature dataset compilation of 36,869 sites from 15 different publicly available sources. We compare the distribution of linear temperature trends for these sites to the distribution for a rural subset of 15,594 sites chosen to be distant from all MODIS- identified urban areas. While the trend distributions are broad, with one-third of the stations in the US and worldwide having a negative trend, both distributions show significant warming. Time series of the Earth’s average land temperature are estimated using the Berkeley Earth methodology applied to the full dataset and the rural subset; the difference of these is consistent with no urban heating effect over the period 1950 to 2010, with a slope of -0.10 ± 0.24/100yr (95% confidence).


J. Geophys. Res. Atmos., 11, 5286 (2013)

Decadal variations in the global atmospheric land temperatures

Richard A. Muller, Judith Curry, Donald Groom, Robert Jacobsen, Saul Perlmutter, Robert Rohde, Arthur Rosenfeld, Charlotte Wickham and Jonathan Wurtele

Abstract
[1] Interannual to decadal variations in Earth global temperature estimates have often been identified with El Niño Southern Oscillation (ENSO) events. However, we show that variability on time scales of 2–15 years in mean annual global land surface temperature anomalies Tavg are more closely correlated with variability in sea surface temperatures in the North Atlantic. In particular, the cross-correlation of annually averaged values of Tavg with annual values of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO) index is much stronger than that of Tavg with ENSO. The pattern of fluctuations in Tavg from 1950 to 2010 reflects true climate variability and is not an artifact of station sampling. A world map of temperature correlations shows that the association with AMO is broadly distributed and unidirectional. The effect of El Niño on temperature is locally stronger, but can be of either sign, leading to less impact on the global average. We identify one strong narrow spectral peak in the AMO at period 9.1 ± 0.4 years and p value of 1.7% (confidence level, 98.3%). Variations in the flow of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation may be responsible for some of the 2–15 year variability observed in global land temperatures.
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:20am PT
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA

Sep 10, 2014 - 08:17am PT
...post up anywhere where I once "ever" disputed that it IS NOT WARMING. Just one!!!

and the last 17 years? what have you said about that? or are you assuming some time period over which k-man is referring too?

you have definitely said there has not been warming over the last 17 years.



WOW!

Now EDH is going microscopically cherry pick in order to validate his assumptions.

Good one ED.


But let's do say that warming has stabilized the past 17 years compared to the previous 17 or so years.

You do agree with that do you NOT EDH? Must we repost all the data that is out there, not just the cherry picked data that you so conveniently draw up on your graphs to promote your position on this issue, EDH.


k-man

Gym climber
SCruz

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2014 - 08:14am PT









(I gotta get to work....


Do you also work at a local Pizza/Sandwich shop, KaveMAN? Or do you teach "Liberal" arts at some local Santa Cruz CC.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:25am PT
so you are shown to be wrong, you did say that there has been no warming over the last 17 years, yet you also asserted that no one could show that you ever claimed there was no warming...

you assumed something, didn't you The Chief...
and you are shown to be wrong.

admit it and move on...
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:28am PT
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA

Sep 10, 2014 - 08:25am PT
so you are shown to be wrong, you did say that there has been no warming over the last 17 years, yet you also asserted that no one could show that you ever claimed there was no warming...

you assumed something, didn't you The Chief...
and you are shown to be wrong.

admit it and move on.


NO EDH, not wrong. Do we have to rehash this in order for you to feel better about your loss of memory and to validate your very poor skills at assuming?

Remember the discussion we had a couple of weeks ago regarding the stable observed temps from 2004 and beyond. How you kept asking me why I insisted on 2004 and beyond.

2014-2004 = 10




NOT 17 EDH. And you are a PhD'd Physicist??? Oh my.


This is all just like the recent "Bishop Pass" insinuation of yours. ASSUME and ASSUME.


Let's see how you CYA on this one, EDH.



Besides EDH, you know exactly what I meant by my posting that I have never disputed/denied the current warming trend. Allow me to be more specific, for the past "ever" 180 years. Never.


Messages 26101 - 26120 of total 28446 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews