Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jan 14, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
Wow ! that is a weird thread you got going here. I predict Chief gets booted soon.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 14, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
No... you got that #1 spot all locked up, dumbDIRTBAGass. Don't be shy. FORTMENTAL is #2.



rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 14, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
Back and catching up. Interesting exchange between the professor and the oil man over the initial 2005 article about reserves and estimated production costs, but it's so yesterday. Anyway, if the rabid enviro types could be cleansed from positions of influence where they exercise extortion and out right lies to enhance their funding stream then perhaps an avenue of cooperation could be opened to our energy future. Natural gas and nuclear are our bridge energies to the imagined promised land of completely safe and clean fuels and electrical generation. If an all out worldwide effort to produce gas from all sources, conventional and otherwise, were coupled with coals replacement with gas in powerplants and converting all commercial vehicles from gasoline to cng, while simultaneously dispelling the paranoia over nuclear we could get very meaningful reductions in anthro plant food (CO2). There has been some testing going on in Canada, Alaska's north slope, and Japan on technologies to unlock methane hydrates (by some estimates methane hydrates rival or exceed all conventional sources) in economically feasible quantity. Below is some info on Japans ongoing program.

http://www.aapg.org/explorer/2013/06jun/methane0613.cfm
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 14, 2014 - 06:55pm PT
Ron's going to have to dig deeper,



Dig deeper? Has there ever been any indication that Ron Anderson has dug at all? He sits there huffing bondo and smearing entrails and grease all over the place while listening to an endless parade of right wing diatribe on FOX radio. Dig deeper? Ed, really man your dry droll humor rang the bell with that one!

Dig deeper! Sketch too?

Base, if you havn't slit your wrists yet..... the thing about the waste water etc from the fracking is that that really seems to be the big hang up (biggest anyway) and what I can gather is that the vast majority of the time the risk to contamination of ground water is very low bordering on non existent and it can be predicted where it may be greater. If this is accurate it hinges (as usual) on a viable regulatory / lisencing program. True? False?
glanton

Social climber
utopia
Jan 14, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
I for one appreciate the credibility cheef shet hed brings
to the anti-agenda agenda.
The "agenda" could do no better than to simply allow the likes
of cheef shet hed and company to continue jaw hasping about their
perceived injustices.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jan 14, 2014 - 07:10pm PT
Skills?

Yes, skills. As in, it looks good, is clever, and makes a good point illustrating what a laughable asshat you are. Butt jokes made in an unprofessional, childlike scrawl would clearly fall more in your bailiwick, for a point of contrast.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 14, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
Of course your deep expertise in evaluating such Kindergarten "point of contrast" art "skills" JEEBSUS, allows you to post such a proficient and deep analysis of FUKEDINTHEHEADMENTALS fuktart art work.

Niiiice.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jan 14, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
Niiice!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 14, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2014/01/14/if-all-you-see-1010/
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 14, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
Climate change extends world war one!

DMT
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 14, 2014 - 09:06pm PT
Rick posted something interesting.

What is the scientific take on the viability of Methane Hydrates ?

British Columbia is about to be shwacked with coastal liquid natural gas ports.( I know, it's not the same)

It's a classic bait and switch victory for the high price per BBL of the Dilbit crowd. Once the price is too low to produce Fort Mac gold, the real prize will be offered as a breakthrough cleaner alternative.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2014 - 10:11pm PT
"Rick posted something interesting."

At least somebody is making sense.

Natural gas and nuclear are our bridge energies to the imagined promised land of completely safe and clean fuels and electrical generation.


But it ain't rick sumner.


Fukushima Toll: US Sailors Who First Responded to Disaster Complain of Radiation Related Sicknesses, To File Federal Class Action Lawsuit



Yeah, look it up rick. Those US sailors, they don't think nuclear is all that "safe."
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2014 - 10:16pm PT
No one can deny, those Italians know how to dress!

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2014 - 10:58pm PT
Nice post Ed. I get the feeling that what I see as a cool psychedelic-spinning ball, others with trained eyes see much more and are likely to be in awe at what they can understand and gain from the short.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jan 14, 2014 - 11:04pm PT
Rock stars don't need oil,' Neil Young says
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/14/showbiz/neil-young-oil/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

I don't know much about Mr. Young, but it would be interesting to see what that guy's "carbon footprint" really is. Wonder how his tour bus gets around, and I haven't heard any real enviros pushing ethanol for a long time, seems like that was another failed gov policy.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 14, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
Have you guys got anything? Anything at all to hang a hat on? thats it? just sagely stroking your beard and proclaiming profound, wise musings about the state of it all, like a bunch of werner brauns. Confidently confident in the confidence of your own council. Thats it huh? Ron heard on the radio that its tectonic plates. Sketch is convinced its the adults being mean. Blahblah thinks anyone who burns gas has nothing to say and Maddog..... damn! Where'd he go?
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jan 15, 2014 - 04:53am PT


Aside from a spike in 2009 (Hope and Change related?) newspaper coverage of global warming has steadily declined for seven years.

I seem to recall... back in 2009... a number of esteemed climate experts predicting the pause was about to end... and the warming was about to resume. Some said it would be significant.

Do you guys remember the story of the boy who cried wolf?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jan 15, 2014 - 07:02am PT
We call the injected frack water "load water."

Most of it flows right back. Fluid in a gas well can kill the well by having the hydrostatic pressure in the wellbore exceed the formation flowing pressure. You have to get it back, even if you have to install a pump to pump it off.

That water is one of the greatest expenses. We used to get rid of it in saltwater disposal wells, and still do with some of it, but over the last few years a couple of companies have developed ways to filter and then re-use that water over and over again.

The risk of contamination occurs at the surface, and other than a few accidents, I'm not aware of any actual huge problems. Sure, you see people lighting their tap water on fire, but what you don't hear is that there is gas in the groundwater naturally in many places. That guy in the movie Gasland had natural gas in his water since he drilled the well.

If you've seen Gasland, that film is about as truthful as Arctic Power is, and Arctic Power is a propaganda agency started by the State of Alaska to open ANWR to drilling. There are people lying on both sides of the energy issue.

Frack jobs have never been a huge problem. The size of them now means that a zillion truckloads of water and sand need to be moved around, and that activity is the real problem. Spills and blowouts are pretty rare with shale gas wells. They have super low permeability and have low formation flowing pressure. The notion that you create fractures which communicate the shale to the surface is false. I've seen a fair amount of micro-seismic, where you lay out a geophone array and "listen" to the fractures propagate (to improve your fracture efficiency) and have never seen a fracture get more than a couple of hundred feet out of the zone, which is normally greater than 8000 feet deep.

During Operation Plowshare (google that one up to see something weird), the AEC detonated several nuclear devices in the low permeability gas sands of the San Juan and Piceance Basins. Nope, even nukes didn't communicate to the surface. You have to understand a little basic physics.

Rick did make one good post. In one of his posts he linked to an EIA article that said that China burns almost as much coal as the rest of the world combined. The U.S. is lucky, we had one of the largest oil reserves in the world. China doesn't have much oil.

I still believe that we should be switching to natural gas as a transportation fuel. It wouldn't be too terribly difficult. We are swimming in the stuff right now. Nobody is drilling for gas because the market is flooded.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 15, 2014 - 08:29am PT
thanks for that. Just to be clear: most / all injection water is recovered (in usa) and reused? The other big scare up here is diversion od scarce water to fracking.

I havn't seen Gasland but I've heard all those stories. BC is currently facing a huge fracking promotion from government and industry and its hard to filter the bull. A big LNG shipping (to china) plant is proposed for 10 km from here with pipelines coming all the way from the northeast.

Increasingly, its hard not to advocate for NG. there's plenty more issues like ramped up elctroc production to service the liquification plants (and mining ventures) but if you shake it all out in terms of ecosystem / climate effect, its not sounding bad compared to status quo.
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Jan 15, 2014 - 08:47am PT
Gasland is worth watching....if not for the isolated incidences of setting tap water on fire, then for a good synopsis of the utter contempt the industry has for western regions and it's inhabitants. Know also that painfully little research has been done on fracking's effects on groundwater.

I'm all for telling Middle East despots to go fuk themselves.... but let's not kid ourselves regarding fracking's impacts.
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