Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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TLP

climber
Jan 24, 2014 - 10:51pm PT
Why do extremists stand in the way of such rational improvements?

One might be a wag and ask, extremists on which side? (Which, I think it is both.)

But anyway, these are all great things in my view too, irrespective of CO2 concerns. Someday the fossils run out, and the earlier that good substitutes are on line, the less bad things happen, domestically and globally, when that starts to happen. But I think it will not have the effect you suppose is possible: it will not act to reduce China's emissions or share of manufacturing. The problem is, coal is just way too cheap, because the environmental costs of using it (both air pollution - mercury etc., even if you are not concerned about CO2 - and habitat/watershed destruction with minimal reclamation) are not being paid. China has painted itself into a corner of requiring a certain supply of additional jobs every year to maintain their desperately prized social stability (the country is just way too big to use the North Korea military approach), and these cannot be created without continuing to increase coal consumption at the rates we've seen in graphs right here. So, no, the only way to really steer that battleship is for global trade systems to develop some spine and insist on some minimal labor and environmental standards. But that is intensely unpalatable to both "free-market" advocates and corporate interests.

Plus, doing some of the stuff you advocate is exactly the favoritism that is widely criticized. Mileage standards are even-handed, but any other preferences run into one or another lobby. If you want to tilt fuel use in the ways you suggest, the best, fairest, most innovation-friendly solution is what's advocated by the Economist: carbon tax. But that's a tax. And I would agree with you that it shouldn't just be another heap of cash to be ill-spent.

So, we're kind of stuck with the ongoing trends. Hence my opinion that we should just figure out the science well enough to deal with that future climate. Which has the benefit that, if it were to prove that CO2 weren't all that important (highly unlikely I think), you'd be all set for a lot of bad sh!t that could just come down the road from natural occurrences.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 24, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
The Chief...You will remain a hypocrite Until you bolt a side-car onto every bike in your quiver ...Hypocrite...!

RJ... that made about as much sense as this entire thread.


Obviously your latest delusional post is only because you are distraught that your favorite watering hole, Whiskey Creek, is done and closed.


But that's a tax. And I would agree with you that it shouldn't just be another heap of cash to be ill-spent.....we should just figure out the science well enough to deal with that future climate.

Ah, one in the same. Tax money being ill spent on the science that after 40 plus years still hasn't a fking clue as to what and how. Just tons and tons of Pal Reviewed fiction that contains thousands of acronyms, the verbiage of "IF", "COULD" and "ASSUMED" etc, loads of %'s and all the statistical figures with pretty graphs that make them appear like they mean/tell us all something meaningful.

In the mean time, CHINA keeps blasting shet into the air cus dudes as yourself are buying Black Diamond CHINA manufactured gear.

Perfect.

TLP

climber
Jan 25, 2014 - 12:02am PT
In the mean time, CHINA keeps blasting shet into the air

I'm confused, haven't you spent hundreds of posts explaining why this doesn't matter? Same for smog: SO2, NOx, all that stuff comes out of volcanic eruptions, and there have been huge ones of those in the last, oh, 500 million years.

Besides, isn't China just the absolute business paradise we are always told we ought to have here? None of those pesky environmental and health regulations that get such a bad rap. What's a few thousand mining deaths every year when you are producing? No labor unions, and on and on. Isn't it just BD's "freedom" to dump its US workforce and outsource to China?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 25, 2014 - 12:13am PT
BD is only BD cus the people buy and use their shet. The people are those on this thread that are fighting to cease the industrial revolution to fight AGW in order to save mankind. But they will look the other way in order to appease their wants and habits on the weekends.


It's the AGW bullshet ideology propaganda that doesn't matter. Cus it aint gonna change what goes on for the rest of 75% or more of this planet.

Just create more taxes here in the US of A to pay for the growing CLIMATE SCIENTISM RESEARCH PAL REVIEWED INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX that has yet to do shet about anything. Nor will they evidenced by the biggest offenders on this planet that just keep giving us the finger as we keep buying and using their goods.

Like the masses of them fancy Climate Change "computer" models. They are all created on products produced in... China.


Oh the hypocrisy.
WBraun

climber
Jan 25, 2014 - 01:15am PT
You're a coward!
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Jan 25, 2014 - 01:28am PT
stupid americans
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 25, 2014 - 09:25am PT
Braun, someday you are going to have to explain yourself. If not here then maybe when you are surprised to find out there really is a heaven, and a gate keeper.

The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 25, 2014 - 09:29am PT
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC

Jan 25, 2014 - 06:25am PT
Braun, someday you are going to have to explain yourself. If not here then maybe when you are surprised to find out there really is a heaven, and a gate keeper.






Bruccee KY...

I suggest you give him some recommendations on what to tell that "gate keeper" cus you certainly are the best qualified here to do so.

Come on Brucee KY, be Werner's buddy and give him some pointers...
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 25, 2014 - 09:37am PT
Suggest all you want.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 25, 2014 - 09:46am PT
At least you have the balls to admit that you are the champ and indeed have some good recommendations on how to bullshet that "gate keeper".


Good on you, Brucee KY!

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 25, 2014 - 09:54am PT
On second thought, this is quite revealing.


I suggest you give him some recommendations on what to tell that "gate keeper" cus you certainly are the best qualified here to do so.

I'd hazard a guess that what Chuff wants me to do is reveal the "secret" to getting past the gate. The right words to say, as it were. Interesting take on it. I was merely suggesting - in analogy - that a person really should explain themselves, honestly that is, not just "say the right thing" in order to get past an obstacle. I think this is just another primary ethos of Chuffian Darwinism. The objective is to win, to individually triumph over the system.

Chuff, I am hardly qualified to explain werner to himself. Why do you think I am always asking him to do so? Do you really think I am trying to "fool" him into some compromising position? That would be fun sure but no it is not my primary purpose. I just want to see him live by an ethic worth something. Yes I'm aware he is a great rescuer and all that but for the purpose of this thread that means nothing. He needs to explain himself. asserting just dosn't cut it, as you well know.

No... you don't know that. Good thing hardly anyone thinks like you.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 25, 2014 - 10:24am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^There ya go Brucee KY!!!^^^^^^^^^^^


Perfect example of why you are the champ of bullshet on this thread.

By virtue of that position that you so proudly have attained, you need to share that gift with Werner and give him some deep insight on how to feed that "gate keeper" the bullshet in order to scam your ass into them gates.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jan 25, 2014 - 11:56am PT
Credit: Wade Icey
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 25, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2014/01/24/if-all-you-see-1020/
WBraun

climber
Jan 25, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
Bruce Kay = a stupid granny who runs her mouth incessantly non stop all day long saying absolutely nothing.

Bruce Kay = blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Diarrhea of the mouth ....
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 25, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
Oh come on Braun.... what exactly do you have against Grannies? Did yours beat you with a 2 by 4 or something?

You guys are a riot. All you guys have to do is refute everything I say. It should be easy for you. The mighty Braun - Astro master, but not exactly a master of language.

Look, its very simple. You accuse someone of cowardice, or subversion or smelling like a cow or whatever then you better substantiate it. If the other argument wins, you change your tune. Its that simple. You refuse to do it and your ethics stink.

Which is why the Climate Change deniers ethics stink.

Yes? No?

Explain.
WBraun

climber
Jan 25, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
I never denied climate change here stupid fool.

I've been saying for 30 years now that mankind controls it's own fate for everything on this planet.

Whatever you desire will come about eventually.

Most of mankind's desires have been chaos and the results speak for themselves.

Everything negative including the present climate change is due to mankind's inharmonious actions towards the material nature.

You need serious help Bruce with your incessant babbling.

Seek help dude and learn to STFU for periods ......
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 25, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
well if I'm incessant then ..... oh never mind.

I never said you were a climate change denier. You know what I'm saying so stop trying to deflect. You're starting to sound like a damn denier. All I give a sh#t about is ethics. I'm not going to repeat myself, I mean what do you want - incessant babbling?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2014 - 01:02pm PT
Wow. Boys, please.


This thread has, at times, been really cool and people had the semblance of a real discussion. We've had noted professional scientists calmly explain the state of the current science to a mob of people who don't care to listen. All they want to do is fight. And the people who've had good intentions are all throwing in the towel.

The lesson learned? You can't teach the willfully ignorant.

So y'all can happily carry this thread even farther down the sewer line, it's pretty much a case-closed argument now. I suppose the only thing left for deniers to do is to demand equal time (and more) than those who can actually reason. The deniers, with their <5%.

I wonder, why do they have such a loud voice? I see one thing, they're able to yell all day while the scientists are actually out in the field, working on the science on which they're reporting.
TLP

climber
Jan 25, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire
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