Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:21am PT
In spite of my better judgement, I'm sticking my slippery oar in the water again.

This is a pretty decent "for the masses" explanation of how climate change is related to last week's Polar Vortex.
You'll have to listen carefully and the explanation for this event comes near the end. If you've had
your morning whisky or toke, you might miss it. And yes, the details were new to me.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/10/white-house-climate-change-polar-vortex-google-hangout?CMP=ema_565
Pay attention to the graphics. Which unfortunately are not well presented.
Those durned fuzzy bearded scientists haven't learned yet how to explain climate science to 3d graders.

Malemute: thanks
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:25am PT


cold air incursion into the US is due to meandering jet stream and it's going to happen more often

HT: any time!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:31am PT
Well, that was illustrative of at least one thing - The White House propoganda
machine is ON THE JOB! But that time lapse of the ice sheet fracturing and
rotating was awesome n'est ce pas?
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:36am PT

Have you seen Chasing Ice yet Reilly?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:39am PT
Reilly - can you explain how that qualifies as propaganda?


For your reference:

Propaganda
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the form of communication. For other uses, see Propaganda (disambiguation).



Propaganda is a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of the community toward some cause or position by presenting only one side of an argument. Propaganda statements may be partly false and partly true. Propaganda is usually repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media in order to create the chosen result in audience attitudes.
As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political, religious or commercial agenda. Propaganda can be used as a form of ideological or commercial warfare.
While the term propaganda has acquired a strongly negative connotation by association with its most manipulative and jingoistic examples (e.g. Nazi propaganda used to justify the Holocaust), propaganda in its original sense was neutral, and could refer to uses that were generally benign or innocuous, such as public health recommendations, signs encouraging citizens to participate in a census or election, or messages encouraging persons to report crimes to law enforcement, among others.

It most certainly is an attempt to influence our view, but I'm sure we can all agree that the other qualifying factors involving deceipt and omission are significantly absent here.

Or do you disagree?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
I knew some twerp was going to yell "propaganda!"

Given all the non-scientific, special interest backed, spouted by morons with no scientific education 24/7 Faux News (and others) REAL propaganda, it's really not fair for the government's scientists to use public money to educate the public on the best science available about an environmental problem that directly affects them?? A problem that will have significant effects on our way of life and economy?
And how dare they explain how the Polar Vortex is related to global warming? The NERVE of those Commie Bureaucrats!
Next thing they'll be trying to immunize all children against measles, smallpox and diphtheria!!
You wouldn't know the difference between science based information and propaganda if it bit you in the arse!

Would you have been happier with numbers and charts that you wouldn't understand either?
WTF do O'Really, Cockup Brothers, and their partners in grime know about climate science? O'Really still thinks a raped woman's eggs won't be fertilized, God created the earth in 6 days 6000 years ago and probably that the sun goes around the earth. Evolution? Don't even get me started.

Do you have any idea how a nuclear reactor works? If not, do you doubt that it works? This Theory of Relativity stuff is so fantastic it must be nonsense! Do you know that without correcting for relativistic time, your GPS wouldn't work and we'd never have put a rover on Mars?

How DID the Chinese manage to put a rover on the moon last month? It must've been faked propaganda and lies "proven" with Photoshopped images.
You want to see faked propaganda? Go to N. Korea. Remember Bush and Iraq WMDs? THAT was propaganda based on unsubstantiated facts.
If you think that sort of nonsense is anything like the scientific "consensus" on climate change you're delusional.
The fact we have to use the word "consensus" is symbolic of the poisoned right wing rhetoric. The historic and modern facts are observable and provable. The projections, like getting a rocket to the moon, are based on the best conclusions that are supported by the facts and known science. And just like any science, the theories and projections will be continuously refined.

(pardon my venom but I'm in fact tired of hearing this sort of clap trap from the Flat Earth believers)

Perhaps Ed and FM and others can be more polite in the face of obstinate idiocy but I can't.
Now I'll go back to my science based, factually verifiable way of making a living.

Sayonara.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
They're coming with torches, HT.

DMT
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:49pm PT





The Coast Guard said it was the earliest the ice had frozen here since the 1930s, and the river connecting Lakes Superior and Huron has been some of the toughest ice they have seen

http://www.wwgp1050.com/2014/01/07/us-coast-guard-battles-ice-to-keep-shipping-channels-open/
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:55pm PT
MONO....


Please post your REF.


According to NOAA/NCDC, December 2013 Data has yet to be published.


http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/







Never mind... just another MONO "reanalysis" blog fabricaed regurgitation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdeKyNAIUAAMGPo.png:medium
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:04pm PT
Read the graph THE CHIEF.

Nice.

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
"Read the Graph"??


Figures. No wonder you feel good straddling that fence DMT.




I indicated the source of the graph. It is NOT NCEP!


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdeKyNAIUAAMGPo.png:medium


The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:17pm PT
Once again you get busted MONO for posting blog propaganda and of course the bullshet begins.



Post up the NCEP direct source there MONO.


Prove me wrong.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
Of course you don't MONO.


The story of this thread... "Don't need to prove anything".



Pure bullshet propaganda.




HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:28pm PT
I don't need to prove anything to you, Chief.

Fun to watch your paranoid hysterics.

Would you please post the source page?
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
It's completely made up propoganda, Sketch.

You caught me. Good one.

My pay will be docked accordingly.

Would you post the page where you found it?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
Gotta love this "hysteria" blog from one of Larry Hamilton primary "blog
sources

http://4hiroshimas.com/


Talk about proliferating the bullshet LARRY!!!!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
Mono's graph clearly shows the Cold Hearts Canada. And Mongolia is looking warmer than normal. But Anatolia has gone cold Turkey.

And in other news Argentina is HAWT!

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:46pm PT


Accumulating Heat

The earth has warmed rapidly over the past century due mainly to human activity, and especially over the past few decades. The increased greenhouse effect has warmed the land and air and melted ice, but most of it (about 90%) has gone into heating the oceans. Several Skeptical Science contributors worked together to publish a scientific paper1 which combined the land, air, ice, and ocean warming data. It found that for recent decades the earth has been heating at a rate of 250 trillion Joules per second.

“Joules per second” is a difficult unit of measure to appreciate, and is especially foreign to people who are unfamiliar with science. This widget attempts to put that heating into terms that are easier to visualize. 250 trillion Joules per second is equivalent to:

Detonating four Hiroshima atomic bombs per second
Experiencing two Hurricane Sandys per second
Enduring four 6.0 Richter scale earthquakes per second
Being struck by 500,000 lightning bolts per second
Exploding more than eight Big Ben towers, with every inch packed full of dynamite, per second

http://4hiroshimas.com/





Gotta love it.




Wouldn't be a bit surprised if Kindergarten Boy FUKEDINTHEHEADMENTAL has something to do with this piece of fabulous work.
Chewybacca

Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:50pm PT
Clean coal?


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/09/22245996-west-virginia-chemical-spill-cuts-water-to-up-to-300000-state-of-emergency-declared?lite


Hey, at least it smells like yummy licorice.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
For those like Chief who feel panicky about thermonuclear comparisons, here's a kinder, gentler way to put things.



That's from an article by Dana Nuccitelli in the Guardian, with a roundup of other images he brought home from last month's AGU meetings. One of these, from a talk by glaciologist Richard Alley on impacts of abrupt climate change, is something I had already mentioned upthread. It illustrates the logical failure of those very popular "Uncertainty! Therefore Do Nothing!" arguments.

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