Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 10, 2014 - 03:54pm PT
They tell us we either adjust our behavior or risk starts going through the roof. Furthermore, the time to adjust was yesterday.

Knowing that, we either cynically circle the wagons and cross our fingers or get pro active.

Well, 'we' includes 6+ billion people that have circled their wagons around the gas pumps.

DMT
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 10, 2014 - 03:56pm PT
In other words, until I personally felt the effects, I had no particular reason to change.

Fair enough, but that may be too late wrt climate change.

So that's why I was not eager to explore this topic. It was not going to produce the ah-hah moment you intended.
I can understand that, but it does indicate that you have chosen sides and thus it is misleading to label yourself a sceptic. A sceptic would explore all sides, trying to ferret out the truth.

I think human caused warming is a real component of climate change, yes
How big a component?
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 10, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
those that know best tell us an effort to move away from fossil fuels is in order.
well put Bruce

let's make an effort

that's not too much to ask
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 10, 2014 - 04:08pm PT
I can understand that, but it does indicate that you have chosen sides and thus it is misleading to label yourself a sceptic.

As I stated previously my skepticism concerns solutions and spokespeople, not the science of climate measurement.

DMT
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
In other words, until I personally felt the effects, I had no particular reason to change.


And this:

The chief's position on the rise of the 3rd world economies and the availability of cheap oil are
spot... fricking... on.

...

Well, 'we' includes 6+ billion people that have circled their wagons around the gas pumps.

Which brings me back to my point about the true cost of goods. It's clear that cheap oil will never be
overridden. The amount of "work" in a barrel of oil is just too great a driver.

The day that the downstream costs of oil and coal are factored into the cost of a gallon of gas or a Kw
of electricity will be the day that those same 6+Billion people will think twice about circling the pump.

Who is going to pull that lever? It ain't gonna be Exxon, I tell ya.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 10, 2014 - 04:30pm PT
my skepticism concerns solutions and spokespeople, not the science of climate measurement.
that looks like a very calculated way of stating it.

so you accept the raw measurements?
but what about the models?
do you trust articles in peer reviewed scientific journals?
do you trust blogs on the internet?
what do you think the temperature rise will be in 2100?

who do you trust more, Anthony Watts or Michael Mann?

I hope you don't mind the 3rd degree DMT, but having a discussion with a reasonable person may be very enlightening to all of us.
Cheers!
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Old West Crackramento
Dec 10, 2014 - 04:32pm PT
Wow! I noticed 30k posts in this thread! GOOD GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Credit: Jebus H Bomz
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 10, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
so you accept the raw measurements?
but what about the models?
do you trust articles in peer reviewed scientific journals?
do you trust blogs on the internet?
what do you think the temperature rise will be in 2100?

Raw measurements, sure, with the usual caveats.

Models? I am distrustful of adding in fudge factors for bad instrumentation. I do not think there is any prescient scientific model in existence. The models show the results of the calculations the programmers built into it. Very useful. But not reality.

Sure I trust peer reviewed articles. I do not trust spokesperson interpretations of those articles, particularly on this board.

No I do not trust blogs. I never read nor study graphs posted to this thread, ever.

I don't know what the temp rise will be by the year of 2100. I'll warrant no one else does either.

DMT
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 10, 2014 - 04:47pm PT
Sure I trust peer reviewed articles. I do not trust spokesperson interpretations of those articles, particularly on this board.

No I do not trust blogs. I never read nor study graphs posted to this thread, ever.
How do you keep yourself informed?
WBraun

climber
Dec 10, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
I don't know what the temp rise will be by the year of 2100. I'll warrant no one else does either.

There's always someone who will know .......
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 10, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
Lol.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 10, 2014 - 05:26pm PT
How do you keep yourself informed?

Articles in rags like Scientific American. A few posters here, I listen to because of their relative expertise. I just don't fuss over dueling grapoholics on ST.

If a news article catches my attention I will follow up on it.

Frankly I don't spend much time staying current with the latest climate science.

There are a few skeptics or denialists that I will also read and consider.

That's about it.

DMT
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 10, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
He did say he doesn't read blogs.

OTOH if you read anything chuff writes, the above is not true.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
I noticed 30k posts in this thread!


And that's after about 6,000 have been deleted for one reason or other!
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Dec 10, 2014 - 06:32pm PT
i'm hoping soon to graduate
from d#@&%ebag to i.u.d.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 10, 2014 - 06:33pm PT
Models? I am distrustful of adding in fudge factors for bad instrumentation. I do not think there is any prescient scientific model in existence. The models show the results of the calculations the programmers built into it. Very useful. But not reality.
it's all true

BUT

it makes no mention that the models are repeatedly TESTED against reality

and that makes them trustworthy enough to pay attention to them
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2014 - 07:15pm PT
Not as long as hypocrites as yourself Kaveman keep filling your tank with their product and drive around to crags to go appease your ego.


WTF???
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Dec 10, 2014 - 07:30pm PT
I see Sketch got shetcanned and DMT is still here. Seems they both EQUALLY violated the NEW law of tit for tat pissing on one another's personal wheaties.

Surely obvious that it pays to be in nut to butt with the tribe elders and have your buddies narc on the other dude for ya.

RJ???

They didn't equally violate the new law, at least as I saw it (hard to say for sure since the relevant posts have been deleted).
DMT was the clear first aggressor: he started with an unproved attack on Sketch in the nature of "your mother" type of stuff.
Sketch called DMT out on it, politely, and DMT responded with increasingly petulant comments about Sketch's mother.
Sketch then retaliated by posting what I presume was a DMT family portrait of sorts (I'll keep my comments on it to myself) and something like "I can pick on your family too."
Then Sketch apparently got the boot.

A good example of ST moderating at work that we all know and love.

Meanwhile (ironically?), DMT seems to assumed a Sketch like roll of being an actively posting skeptic, except he's not as rhetorically skilled or as well informed--he's sort of an inadvertent Simplicio in this nonsensical "debate."

I'd like to hear more about models from DMT--seems like he's got a good handle on them.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 10, 2014 - 08:07pm PT
Degaine

climber
Dec 11, 2014 - 12:57am PT
DMT wrote:
I just don't fuss over dueling grapoholics on ST.

So the truth finally comes out, I always suspected that you were an anti-GRAPHite!

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