Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 16, 2014 - 10:11am PT
Climate change legislation problem, encapsulated:



The spice must flow.

DMT
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 16, 2014 - 10:41am PT
Come on, lets keep it on topic boys.

What the hell are we going to do aboit all this 2 month warm spell in AK? I see it as a problem of your guys making. Your piggish habits in the "developed world" down south has magnified problems in the arctic. If your not going to change your ways and put your mula where your mouths are, we demand reparations up here in the developing world. Hell, we want reparations anyway, the skiing and snow machining suck and is causing economic damage.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 16, 2014 - 11:19am PT
Hell yes Frosty, your little province has been extorting money from the feds, and by extention the proceeds of other productive provinces like the good tar sand people of Alberta, for years to support your green dreams, taking advantage of low paid foreign labor, etc, etc. Anyway, since the worlds polution seems to always settle to amplified damages in the arctic, we want our cut of your ill gotten gain. You know, social justice for the oppressed, fairness, and guilt payment in lieu of actual change.


Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 16, 2014 - 11:30am PT
Next time you want to give an ethics class Dr Bruce O.C.D. you better take a long hard look in your carnival mirror, first.

DMT
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 16, 2014 - 01:00pm PT


http://www.etfos.unios.hr/reslab/?t=1&id=5
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 16, 2014 - 01:10pm PT





Cities worldwide face incredible challenges and opportunities due to demographic shifts, resource depletion, climate change, and economic volatility. To respond effectively, cities need to be even more adaptable, efficient, sustainable, and connected - to become ‘smarter’ and more resilient. We help facilitate that change.
http://www.worldcitiesnetwork.org/
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 16, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
ou are suggesting that name calling or other forms of character insult are unethical.

There you go with your cute little internet psych crap again.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 16, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
Its like this - you ain't got your freedom, they took away your American Dream, ther's no such thing as democratic representation and there's still the anxiety of losing your god and guns and your children being sold off to the gays.

Oh... my... you have pegged me with your insightful analysis.

Your internet climate science is of similar quality and pedigree.

With spokespersons like you... well, never mind.

DMT

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
... take a long hard look in your carnival mirror ...

Hoh man... Zing!!


Nice pic of the Bay Dingus.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 16, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
Thanks k-man. Its looking a little wetter at this point :)

Back to my Right Wing Authoritarian Playbook, gotta run, er, I mean drive!

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Dec 16, 2014 - 04:33pm PT
You should start a blog, doc. Call it Dr. Bruce, Climate Proctologist.

Oh dear I meant Internet Psychologist, O.C.D., damn spell checker!

DMT



Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Dec 16, 2014 - 08:14pm PT
At the AGU meetings this week, always quite an experience for its sheer scale and energy level -- well over 20,000 scientists in one place, all of them excited to tell you about their research.

In a hot room with bright lights deep in Moscone South there's a team filming interviews for a climate MOOC that Bruce might enjoy taking one day, it will emphasize among other things the psychology of climate change. That's actually a field of study now with its controversies and big questions.

I've been hitting some of the cryosphere sessions, where you can see year to year progress on sea ice, glacier and permafrost dynamics. Also eavesdropping on a few planetary or tectonic sessions, kind of a hobby interest. NASA might have Venus all wrong but the excitement today came from Mars, those methane spikes what are they from?

Meanwhile, NOAA updated their global temp index for November; it looks like there's some chance their index (like NASA's) will mark 2014 as a new record.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 16, 2014 - 08:31pm PT
WTF. Who flips the bill for a sociologist to go to a convention for real scientists?

Maybe thats a little harsh. I will phrase it better next time.

Methane spikes? Do they have a location or mechanism naiked down? Biogenic or Abiogenic?

Forget Bruce. He's flaming out....of the closet.


Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 16, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
that rick, who doesn't understand anything about science, to make pronouncements about scientists is dark comedy... but then he's given to making (and defending) absurd statements from his demented fantasies.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/12/15/science.1261713.full
from Science Express

Published Online December 16 2014
Science DOI: 10.1126/science.1261713
REPORT

Mars methane detection and variability at Gale crater


Christopher R. Webster, Paul R. Mahaffy, Sushil K. Atreya, Gregory J. Flesch, Michael A. Mischna, Pierre-Yves Meslin, Kenneth A. Farley, Pamela G. Conrad, Lance E. Christensen, Alexander A. Pavlov, Javier Martín-Torres, María-Paz Zorzano, Timothy H. McConnochie, Tobias Owen, Jennifer L. Eigenbrode, Daniel P. Glavin, Andrew Steele, Charles A. Malespin, P. Douglas Archer Jr., Brad Sutter, Patrice Coll, Caroline Freissinet, Christopher P. McKay, John E. Moores, Susanne P. Schwenzer, John C. Bridges, Rafael Navarro-Gonzalez, Ralf Gellert, Mark T. Lemmon, the MSL Science Team

ABSTRACT
Reports of plumes or patches of methane in the Martian atmosphere that vary over monthly timescales have defied explanation to date. From in situ measurements made over a 20-month period by the Tunable Laser Spectrometer (TLS) of the Sample Analysis at Mars (SAM) instrument suite on Curiosity at Gale Crater, we report detection of background levels of atmospheric methane of mean value 0.69 ± 0.25 ppbv at the 95% confidence interval (CI). This abundance is lower than model estimates of ultraviolet (UV) degradation of accreted interplanetary dust particles (IDP’s) or carbonaceous chondrite material. Additionally, in four sequential measurements spanning a 60-sol period, we observed elevated levels of methane of 7.2 ± 2.1 (95% CI) ppbv implying that Mars is episodically producing methane from an additional unknown source.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 17, 2014 - 06:44am PT
A sharp decline in oil prices does, however, provide a rare political opportunity to introduce more carbon pricing. After all, one of the major arguments against a “carbon tax” has been that it would make energy more expensive. Even assurances that the revenue from such a tax would be refunded to taxpayers were inadequate to overcome political resistance, particularly in the U.S.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/oil-prices-the-carbon-tax-moment-is-here/article22113980/
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 17, 2014 - 07:27am PT
Skepticism is all about critical examination, evidence-based scientific inquiry, and the use of reason in examining controversial claims. Those who flatly deny the results of climate science do not partake in any of the above. They base their conclusions on a priori convictions. Theirs is an ideological conviction—the opposite of skepticism.
In the meantime, journalists and others can use a test I turned to on the television program in Australia. After hearing that the individuals in question did not accept the conclusions of climate change modelers at the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and other academic bodies, I asked them the simple question: “OK, what do your models predict?”

As you might expect, the response was silence.

If You Don’t Accept That Climate Change Is Real, You’re Not a Skeptic. You’re a Denier.
Dr. Lawrence Krauss
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/12/16/climate_change_deniers_are_not_skeptics.html


As scientific skeptics, we are well aware of political efforts to undermine climate science by those who deny reality but do not engage in scientific research or consider evidence that their deeply held opinions are wrong. The most appropriate word to describe the behavior of those individuals is “denial.” Not all individuals who call themselves climate change skeptics are deniers. But virtually all deniers have falsely branded themselves as skeptics. By perpetrating this misnomer, journalists have granted undeserved credibility to those who reject science and scientific inquiry.
http://www.csicop.org/news/show/deniers_are_not_skeptics

DMT: what do your models predict?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 17, 2014 - 08:02am PT
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/climate-change-beavers-boost-emissions-800-million-kg-methane-every-year-1479809

Maybe it's time for beaver felt hats to come back in style

monolith

climber
SF bay area
Dec 17, 2014 - 08:06am PT
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Dec 17, 2014 - 08:26am PT
Er, Um, Chief. Check the temps for 1999 and 2000.

Btw, your 'pause' increased the long term warming rate.



Can someone please explain to The Chief how averages and trend lines work?
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Dec 17, 2014 - 08:26am PT
#1 There are now dozens of hockey sticks and they all come to the same basic conclusion. The recent warming does appear to be unprecedented as far back as we can go. But even if we didn’t have that evidence, we would still know that humans are warming the planet, changing the climate and that represents a threat if we don’t do something about it.

#2 Year by year, decade by decade, gradually over long periods of time, we see that the earth’s temperature is rising and we know from very careful scientific studies that have been done, that the majority of this warming is due to human production of heat-trapping gases.

#3 Weather is your mood and climate is your personality. So on any given day, you can have really cold weather or really violent weather. But the scientific literature does suggest that our climate is changing. Almost every weather phenomenon happens in a warmer and more moist climate.

#4 We know that humans are raising the temperature through the emission of greenhouse gases. We’re beginning to change the climate. Among the things that we’re going to see is more of the hydrologic cycle is going to be rain, and less of it’s going to be snow. As it gets warmer, the snow line is going to move up. What does fall as snow is going to melt earlier, and runoff faster.

#5 ...what we anticipate is that because we’re continuing to add carbon dioxide to the system, we’re going to continue to warm decade by decade by decade. The exact magnitude of where we’re going to go is going to depend a little bit on the system, but also on the decisions that we make as a society to either reduce carbon emissions or just to carry on with business as usual.

#6 Everything I’ve learned about our planet’s past climate history places me, like most of my colleagues, in the camp that says we need to take preventive action to keep the planet from warming further.

#7 There’s no debate. It’s really quite simple. We’ve overloaded the atmosphere with heat trapping gas and the rest are just details.

#8 The take-home message of my coral reef research is that without serious, near-term efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and to increase coral reef resilience, the world’s coral reefs will experience dangerously frequent mass bleaching events within decades.

#9 Climate change is coming. If you want to know what it looks like, just look at the Midwest right now. It’s drought; it’s heat. Warmer temperatures don’t mean barbecues and tank tops. It means drought; it means fire; it means suffering.

#10 Compare climate change to a train trundling across America. Some way down the track, we are not sure how far, the bridge is out and disaster looms. Do we want to be the ones to sit back and watch the train wreck, or do we want to be the hero?
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