Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 13481 - 13500 of total 17219 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 08:50am PT
wow, Sketch wrote something about climbing (but in his own Sketchy way... but his response does beg similar questions of the relationship between the poster and the avatar image... in Sketch's case that'll induce a "yuck!")

as for being intentionally misleading, what would the motive have been? what does the publisher of the LA Times have to gain by such misleading behavior, you've parroted the accusation that it is a "lie."

An interesting word.... a falsehood made with the intent to deceive. Given that the USGS report is available for download, if Maya Srikrishnan was lying, it wouldn't take long for someone to uncover it.

What would the intent be?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 09:12am PT
that is the intent to lie?

interesting idea... some editorial board selects the articles to appear in the issue of the newspaper, why not just make things up that aren't real, but appeal to the readers' curiosity to get them to click on the link and sell them bottled water (the particular banner appearing in the STForum on my machine right now)....

some catchy headline like "Elvis returns from Alien Abduction and posts to STForum as the avatar 'Sketch'"

oh, sorry, I guess some newspapers do do that... and while I read the NYTimes, I never figured the LATimes was in that category... apparently I'd do better just clicking on web blogs to get my news... at least I can create a reality of my own liking that way.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 19, 2014 - 10:14am PT
What is the cause of you fools. How about a world made safe from your pet delusions, where the vanishingly small percentage of the population supremely arrogant enough to imagine their intellectual superiority group grope in an attempt to figure out how to screw in the eco friendly light bulbs into sockets devoid of electricity because the grid collapsed in your imaginary sustainable utopia. But hey, everything else will be free because after all isn't that a basic human right?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Aug 19, 2014 - 11:11am PT
There are no "climate change skeptics", just liars and fools.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Aug 19, 2014 - 11:56am PT
FYI

Plagiarism is the act of claiming someone else work as your own. not posting someone else's photo on stuportopic.

Fail.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 01:15pm PT
wow, a climbing interlude... with slander and spray included...

maybe I can get in on it...

Pigeon Spire (at dawn, you guys seem to be late risers)

from the top of the Snowpatch-Bugaboo col

and a shot from the West Ridge, just as you encounter it, looking back into Horse Thief Creek, the Beckey-Chouinard route goes up the granite face in the background...

I see Sketch has selected a more "male appropriate" avatar figure... up up and away!

So, I take it we're not discussing climate change anymore, or "the cause" that people lie for (still no motive, rick offered "arrogance," an interesting proposition since he is sure to presume it when someone knows something he doesn't... and that he doesn't want to, "oh the arrogance of those people!").
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
I have to admit that I never recognize a "thumb," especially if there is a butt around to look at...

so if there is one on the West Butt. of Pigeon Spire, I would have encountered it without recognition. I'll look in the guide book tonight and see if it's mentioned.

dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Aug 19, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
Sorry to jack your thread jacking back to fun climate/weather stuff
but did you hear that Mexico City (elevation 7,350ft) got hammered with
2 feet of hail a few days ago. Blocked roads and freaked out
millions of residents.

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/26317606/massive-hail-storm-dumps-on-mexico-city

A month ago it also happened in another Mexican city.
http://www.weather.com/news/commuter-conditions/hailstorm-hits-puebla-mexico-20140709

And then again in April here
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/agencia-efe/140417/hailstorm-leaves-thousands-vehicles-stranded-highway-mexico

Yup the climate is getting colder. Stop denying it and
be useful and offer some solutions.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 01:36pm PT
dave729, where does the hail come from?
what's the meteorological conditions that lead to it?

seems like summer thunderstorms, but that would require too much common sense from you...
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Aug 19, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
Sure Ed, but why do you ignore the fact that hail is ice and ice is cold
and cannot form so much in the AGW summer inferno you say exists?

Where is that upper troposphere warming we need to be afraid of?

Ok yes its inconvenient for the Global Warming Hypothesis.






Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
Ok yes its inconvenient for the Global Warming Hypothesis.
serious aren't you dave729

that's the scary part...
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Aug 19, 2014 - 02:05pm PT
You, a scientist, refusing to make an attempt to
disprove a hypothesis.
Make a note to remove that word from your resume.





rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 19, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
And the winner of this ridiculous mud wrestling contest is who?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 05:07pm PT
I think dave729 is saying that if it is cold anywhere in the world in the summer time then the hypothesis of anthropogenic climate change (global warming) is inconsistent with the observation.

therefore, the hypothesis is incorrect.

of course, the hypothesis of anthropogenic climate change doesn't reach the conclusion that it should not be cold enough to freeze water everywhere.

that's the scary thing... dave729, maybe you should state what part of the "hypothesis" you understand is shown to be wrong with the observation of summer thunderstorms in Mexico City.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 19, 2014 - 05:22pm PT
Ed posted
I think dave729 is saying that if it is cold anywhere in the world in the summer time then the hypothesis of anthropogenic climate change (global warming) is inconsistent with the observation.

therefore, the hypothesis is incorrect.

How does the observation of all of the glaciers around Mexico City melting impact his opinion, I wonder?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 19, 2014 - 06:23pm PT
I love checking in on this thread. It's like "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest".
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 19, 2014 - 07:04pm PT
http://www.pinchot.com/

March 30, 2014
Is Science to Blame for Climate Denial?

Science claims to have an evidence based way of knowing, but it claims to know things with equal certainty whether they are based on evidence or on scientifically orthodox beliefs that are not supported by evidence. Asserting that beliefs for which there is no evidence have been proven by science has undermined the credibility of science with large segments of the population. This lack of credibility for the parts of science that are based on evidence is causing our society not to deal with climate change. It may lead to the end of civilization and the death of billions. It doesn’t have to happen if science wakes up. God-detail2

Science accuses others of having their heads in the sand, but in this case it may be scientists who are not taking responsibility for the shoddiness of their thinking. Let me give a relevant example.

When I encounter someone who says the Earth was created 6,000 years ago and that the fossils were put there by God to test our faith, I roll my eyes. Perhaps I am being narrow minded. Oops, according to a Gallup Poll I am writing off the 40% of the American public who believe humans were created in their current form roughly 10,000 years ago. Oh well, I don’t think we can get Science to treat this belief seriously.

Now suppose I encounter someone who accepts the fossil record, accepts that life on Earth began about 3 ½ billion years ago, that the Cambrian explosion was around 542 million years ago, etc. Suppose they accept our descent from monkeys and the history of evolution as having happened. But suppose they don’t buy the scientifically orthodox explanation of that it happened by random variation and natural selection alone. They have a different theory, namely that in addition to natural selection, God had a hand in pushing things in the direction that God wanted them to go. 38 percent of Americans hold some variation of this belief.

I can hear the scientific response to such a view. "Balderdash! The evidence overwhelmingly supports the theory of natural selection and rejects any involvement by God." But does it?

Looked at objectively, both the dominant theory of natural selection, sometimes called the neo-Darwinian synthesis, and this theory, the theory of natural selection as guided by pushes from God, are equally consistent with all the evidence we have. When Science asserts that one of these theories is correct and the other just plain wrong, that assertion is based on belief, not evidence.

As far as we know, the difference between the two theories is not scientifically testable. If so, according to the scientific method they are equally valid. I invite comments that propose a experiment to show which theory is correct, pure random natural selection vs. some sort of guidance of evolution by God through an unknown mechanism.

Why does this matter? Because most people in the US believe in God and believe that God is active in the world. According to a 2011 Gallup poll found that over 90% of US citizens believe in God. A Baylor University survey on types of belief in God, found that about 24% of the public are Deists, that is they believe that God created the universe and established the physical laws, has not fiddled with it since. 90-24=66. This suggests that about 66% of the public believe that God is actively involved in influencing what happens on Earth today and that God has been active since the beginning of time. Should we be surprised that, with a little help from corporate disinformation campaigns, so many people reject evolution, science and climate change?

All that is needed to fix this situation enough to get us moving on saving civilization is a bit of humility in Science. Stand up for what you know from the evidence as scientific fact. Explain the rest as your personal belief and make room for those who have other beliefs, especially when they are consistent with the evidence.

Just as God’s existence cannot be proven by science, neither can God’s non-existence. This matter is resolved by a choice in what to believe. We all find ways to give meaning to our lives. As Victor Frankl showed us, the search for meaning is at the core of what it is to be human. To lose meaning is to fall into despair. Let us be tolerant of differing worldviews, particularly when they are consistent with the available evidence. Let's let the people who believe in God back into a stronger relationship with science without asking them to give up their beliefs. Everyone assembles their worldview with one or more leaps of faith. Even atheistic scientists.

If, as Rupert Sheldrake says in Science Set Free, (published as in England), science stood by what there is strong evidence for, and treated theoretical beliefs as different from fact, science would be freed to explore phenomenon outside the current scientific paradigm and more people would trust science.

Scientists: Lighten up. It might just save civilization!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 19, 2014 - 09:43pm PT

Trust is earned, faith is not.

Faith doesn't belong in science? Don't you think Einstein died with faith in believing his theory's were true?

My faith grows everyday, because God earns it!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2014 - 10:23pm PT
Don't you think Einstein died with faith in believing his theory's were true?

Does God play dice?


~ Or ~


Is the Universe a friendly place?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 19, 2014 - 10:50pm PT
Boy you moshed into this mud wrestling pit today with a real thud, wouldn't you agree Bruce?

I urge you to cease your endless projections of your deep psychological problems onto others here Bruce. This kind of on the cheap self therapy is not working for you. Your anger, loss of faith in yourself, and depression is chronic and acute. You need to seek professional help.

As for my opposition to catastrophic AGW often presented here and the media. Mine is a reasoned response built upon the totality of the facts Ive been able to ascertain from voluminous materiels that I am able to access as a layman. Intuition has little to do with it.
Messages 13481 - 13500 of total 17219 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta