Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Feb 25, 2015 - 10:32am PT

So you finally understand and get it. It is a tough concept, the total energy available in the weather system and how it works. But it's good to know this thread has finally altered someones perception of the world.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 10:33am PT
the EdwardTroll gets its jollys by getting you to mud wrestle him in the back 40 of BS. But go ahead and join the next round.

Oh joy. Another heckler.
raymond phule

climber
Feb 25, 2015 - 10:37am PT
Why is a banned troll still writing on the forum?

He managed to behave for some time but is now back at his stupid trolling.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Feb 25, 2015 - 10:42am PT
"Given the current enormous interest in temperature trends you would think
that the number of measurement points would be increasing rather than
rapidly declining.

Are the stations still collecting data? Is someone choosing not to include them in the global calculation?"

http://a-sceptical-mind.com/the-strange-death-of-the-themometers



And notice how Wade the Warmists above posted graph is
different from the one in this link. Convienent temperature
adjustments is one reason we can't trust people who are paid
to promote climate alarmism.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 25, 2015 - 10:52am PT
He managed to behave for some time but is now back at his stupid trolling.

DFTT

Back to the Willie Soon affair, still getting press, this reminds me of a saying that I think originated with New Republic writers a decade or more back -- "The scandal is what isn't a scandal." But first, the scandal: As NYT reports,
[Soon] has accepted more than $1.2 million in money from the fossil-fuel industry over the last decade while failing to disclose that conflict of interest in most of his scientific papers. At least 11 papers he has published since 2008 omitted such a disclosure, and in at least eight of those cases, he appears to have violated ethical guidelines of the journals that published his work.

But what's *really* the scandal IMHO is the abysmally low quality of Soon's research, with its strong and highly visible bias, nevertheless getting occasionally through peer review (or pal review in at least one famous case) and -- among people who want to promote that message -- earning fame out of all proportion to the science quality itself. If Soon is among the leading "skeptic" scientists, that alone should be an indicator of how little substance is there.

But doing bad and biased research is not legally a scandal, it seems, whereas failing to disclose conflicts of interest to journals that require such disclosure is one. This places Soon in a situation kind of like gangsters who get caught for tax evasion, an ironic and fully appropriate comparison in light of Soon's own ad hom histrionics.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 10:59am PT
Chiloe - would you provide the data and link for the values in your chart?

Is this it?

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 25, 2015 - 11:00am PT
Worst ski season in 100 years

Funny, I just saw a story about how Northeastern ski areas are having a great winter, with more powder than British Columbia. In both cases it seems to fit Jennifer Francis' theory about sticky weather.

Rather than circling in a relatively straight path, the jet stream has meandered more in north-south waves. In the west, it’s been bulging northward, arguably since December 2013 – a pattern dubbed the “Ridiculously Resilient Ridge” by meteorologists. In the east, we’ve seen its southern-dipping counterpart, which I call the “Terribly Tenacious Trough.”

These long-lived shifts from the polar jet stream’s typical pattern have been responsible for some wicked weather this winter, with cold Arctic winds blasting everywhere from the Windy City to the Big Apple for weeks at a time.

We know that climate change is increasing the odds of extreme weather such as heatwaves, droughts and unusually heavy precipitation events, but is it making these sticky jet-stream patterns more likely, too? Maybe.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 25, 2015 - 11:13am PT
Interesting new paper in Nature Communications by Paul Goddard (U Arizona) and coauthors, "An extreme event of sea-level rise along the Northeast coast of North America in 2009–2010." Their analysis highlights a regional, large and relatively sudden rise in sea level (128 mm in two years!) associated with a downturn in Atlantic circulation.

The coastal sea levels along the Northeast Coast of North America show significant year-to-year fluctuations in a general upward trend. The analysis of long-term tide gauge records identified an extreme sea-level rise (SLR) event during 2009–10. Within this 2-year period, the coastal sea level north of New York City jumped by 128 mm. This magnitude of interannual SLR is unprecedented (a 1-in-850 year event) during the entire history of the tide gauge records. Here we show that this extreme SLR event is a combined effect of two factors: an observed 30% downturn of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation during 2009–10, and a significant negative North Atlantic Oscillation index. The extreme nature of the 2009–10 SLR event suggests that such a significant downturn of the Atlantic overturning circulation is very unusual. During the twenty-first century, climate models project an increase in magnitude and frequency of extreme interannual SLR events along this densely populated coast.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 25, 2015 - 11:18am PT
don't overthink it Sketch... oh wait...no danger there.

out of context unattributed google cut and paste response in 3,2,1.....

Why is a banned troll still writing on the forum?

Eh Sketch? Can you answer that all by yourself?

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 11:18am PT
Chiloe - would you provide the data and link for the values in your chart?

Is this it?

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Feb 25, 2015 - 12:00pm PT
Maybe you should insult Chiloe some more, Sketch.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 25, 2015 - 12:38pm PT
The fascination with Soon's funding strikes me as a red herring, and not in the best interest of climate science. If we focus on funding sources, we treat climate science as if it were political science, i.e. more dependent upon bias than upon empirical observation and skeptical testing.

The convincing criticism of Soon's work comes from that empirical observation and skeptical testing to which every true scientist's work is subject. His conclusions, to me, simply don't fit the facts. Those of his critics fit the facts much better. Anything more than that departs from scientific inquiry, in my opinion.

In contrast, I have no problem pointing out conflicts of interest in how people and groups use research results. For example, the fossil fuels industries have an incentive to conclude that use of fossil fuels is relatively harmless, so they will pick and choose those bits of research supporting their position, and ignore those that do not. Certain "green" industries, have the opposite bias.

In a way, it's like the difference between a lawyer and a witness at trial. The lawyer, unlike a witness, never promised to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The lawyer promised to tell the client's side of the story in the light most favorable to the client.

Incidentally, most of my trial practice involved use of expert witnesses - particularly appraisers. One joke is that the M.A.I. designation carried by the most prestigious appraisers stand for "made as instructed." We all knew that the appraiser was paid by a party with a stake in the outcome of the litigation that depended on the appraiser's testimony. I learned early on that I should be very careful to limit my cross-examination of the other side's expert. Instead, I would have my expert review and refute the other side's expert, because my expert's refutation was much more effective than my cross-examination and attempt to discredit.

John
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 25, 2015 - 12:54pm PT
Its not a fascination with his funding source, its a fascination with folks who shout 'bias!' for climate change research funding and then patently ignore this denier dude's funding.

But you knew that.

As usual, you're right about me, DMT. I just think we should refrain from playing their game, because it diverts us from our best arguments.

John
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 25, 2015 - 01:04pm PT
But in a better world the scandal would be the quality of Soon's science (very low) in relation to the great promotion it has received. His "It's the Sun, stupid!" and related arguments for example actually illustrate a different and in this case truer cliche that "correlation does not imply causation."

Yet another irony being that many people who would not know a correlation if it bit them, do loudly recite that CDNIC cliche in the belief that it is some kind of incantation against actual climate science.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 25, 2015 - 01:13pm PT
Yet another irony being that many people who would not know a correlation if it bit them, do loudly recite that CDNIC cliche in the belief that it is some kind of incantation against actual climate science.

Excellent! I'm still laughing over that one, Chiloe. I, too hear that recited as if it really means correlation implies lack of causation.

John
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 01:21pm PT
Maybe you should insult Chiloe

You know... maybe insults are the way to go.

I've politely asked, several times... with no response.

One more try.

Hey Chiloe.

Is this the data used in your most recent graph?

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt

If not, please post a link to the data.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Feb 25, 2015 - 01:35pm PT
Love how Sketch back edited his High Horse insult of Chiloe and replaced it with his data request.

Good for you, Sketch.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 25, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
It's not just Soon that the industry is attacking. Word has come down from high to launch a full frontal assault on any contrarians to the phony consensus. At least seven high profile U.S. scientists are under investigation by the commies.

On the flip side, the industry is also in full defensive mode due to worldwide exposure of temp data manipulation to fit the narrative, the likeliehood of representatives of the majority of the worlds population not even paying lip service to the agenda, the ever widening gulf between projections of the "holy models" and even the heavily and criminally adjusted temp data, and self destruction of pervs and criminals serving as the main spokemen of the industry. I mean who can make up stuff like the Anthony Weineresque antics of big Al or Patchy. Even more damaging is Patchy's parting statement where he admits that radical environmentalism is his "religion and dharma".

Oh how funny, as the worms turn and the little commie biotches here struggle to defend.


TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 25, 2015 - 03:25pm PT
http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/28196152/lobster-boats-frozen-in-new-england-harbor
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 25, 2015 - 04:57pm PT
You can get all the Climate Change Denialism "Talking Points" here


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