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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 20, 2012 - 06:33am PT
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Bob.... tell me you didn't spill a drop.
ha! amazingly, i didn't. my head hit the steering wheel and i popped right up. i was always gifted that way. right after we moved from yosemite to boston i was at some amc or bmc party and we were fabulously, famously drunk. barry rugo was just back from summmiting everest and "give me a higher love" was up to eleven on the crowded dance floor. i dropped to my head and did a few 360's with a beer in one hand, then hopped back up on my feet. rugo stares at me dumbfouded and says "didn't spill a drop!" of course, being the naive socal guy i was at the time i had no idea who barry was, though whe ran in the same circles. that boston crowd is amazing.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Oct 20, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
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After a few close calls of severely fatigued driving, I don't push it anymore.
Just too many times of blacking out and coming too with absolutely no memory of the the past seconds, minutes, miles, you name it.
I know keep tight tabs on that stuff, carry emergency caffeinated beverages behind the driver's seat (taylor's tonics axteca has a double shot of expresso! oh YEAH!) and even some last resort bits to aid in wakefulness. I'd rather have difficulty sleeping at my destination then having difficulty staying awake.
I realized a while ago that what can be just as dangerous for me is eye fatigue, where my eyes get tired enough that they just stop focusing. Eyes open and unable to see a thing...it's a little too scary for me. And yeah, I might not be all that sleepy, but damn if its scary to have my entire field of vision blur or black out.
And sometimes I DO find it harder in urban situations. I've had more close calls driving at 3am on major freeways because I'm less likely to pull over where there's 'only 20 - 40 min to go'. Nowadays, I've scoped out which parking lots and parks along my normal travel routes I feel comfortable catching a few minutes of sleep and make use of them.
And by now...I have spots at 20 minute increments all up and down both sides of the bay.
I'm still trying to find the 24hr donut places though...they are HUGE in helping me make it the last stretch of driving...
Cheers
LS
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clustiere
Trad climber
berkeley ca
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Oct 20, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
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Yeah those offwidths on that route will do it to ya.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 20, 2012 - 09:11pm PT
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hey there say, pellucidwombat...
you're welcome, as to the new info for you...
(good job anastasia, to spread the warnings)...
also, not sure if i ever found the link, but i am going to look for the man that originally share the great article about:
micro sleep...
you have NO control over it, no matter how much you 'think you are fighting it off'... it's not an 'i've got to master this and i CAN type thing'....
it is an 'auto body--brain--function' it WILL just 'HAPPEN'...
and YOU will not even be aware, as the brain as been 'ticking'
down to what it does when overtired: shut down
i am sooo glad i learned about this... i too, used to connected to
drivers who claimed they 'knew how to do this'...
however, when i was with them, they TRADED PLACES when i insisted, being that our KIDS were in these traveling cars and i had read of far
too many 'sleep accidents' when i was a kid, and was SCARED of cars...
i was like anastasia now: the mama hen, fighting to keep my babies
with a stable driver...
will edit later:
when i can look for the link...
a highway patrolman (or police officer)
lost his wife to this, when she insisted she was NOT too tired while
driving a new car back to where they lived (think that is how it goes? not sure, but he may have been working, so that may? have been why she went to do this? and perhaps for visiting? reason--i am not sure, so don't quote on this)...
it was very awful sad... :(
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 20, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
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and even some last resort bits to aid in wakefulness
oh yeah ladyscarlette, that's oldschool! once me and a very old friend who shall remain nameless (i'm retired and thus bulletproof; he's still a responsibly employed small businessman) barrelled from san diego to the northwest in 24 hours fuelled by "black beauties" pilfered from his mom's medicine cabinet. we made it from san diego to sacrameto on our own, then were on artificial aid from there. perhaps not responsibible, with thirty+ years of hindsight, but it was a damned good time at the time.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 20, 2012 - 10:02pm PT
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hey there say, all...
HERE IS PHIL KONSTANTIN's link to 'SLEEPY DRIVER':
BUT YOU HAVE TO SCROLL ALL THE WAY DOWN past the
native history book AND history list,
and PAST the 'sign guest book' down to:
THE DROP DOWN MENU--open that drop down
and you will see link to SLEEPY DRIVER:
http://cherokeephil.com/March.html
OOOPS--found a MUCH easier link for the same page:
http://americanindian.net/sleep.html
NOTE FROM PHIL:
Please feel free to add a link to this site. I am available for media interviews to discuss sleepy drivers or Robyn's crash. I have also made a series of TV Public Service Announcements (PSAs) for the CHP in which I talk about Robyn's crash. The PSAs are available for airplay. You can contact me by e-mail or at the address below if you would like a copy.
Phil Konstantin
P.O. Box 17515
San Diego, CA 92177-7515
(858) 505-5014
ON THE page that i put this link for, is this, as well:
plus a link to its own page:
http://americanindian.net/sleepstats.html
In my research into the cause of Robyn's crash, I am come across some interesting facts. I have links below to other internet sites which discuss the issue. I have also compiled some statistics from government sources. Here is one significant fact. More people die each year from crashes related to Drowsy, Sleepy or Fatigued Drivers than from all of the following causes COMBINED:
Plague; Anthrax; Leprosy; Diptheria; Whooping Cough; Tetanus; Smallpox; Chicken Pox; Measles; Rubella; Yellow Fever; Dengue; Mosquito-born Encephilitis; Infectious Mononucleosis; Malaria; Venereal Diseases; Vitamin A, B, C and D Difficiencies; Gout; Glaucoma; Cataracts; Hemorrhoids; Chronic Sinusitis; Pregnancies with Abortive Outcomes; Impetigo; Psoriasis; Spina Bifida; Cleft Palate and Cleft Lip; Bites from Snakes, Lizards and Spiders; Dog Bites; Hornet, Wasp and Bee Stings; Catacylsmic Earth Movements and Eruptions; and Fireworks.
APRIL 6 day of each year--DRIVER awareness day resolution for calif
http://americanindian.net/resolution.html
Phil
and, this:
There are several ironic circumstances in Robyn's death. She was a good driver. Robyn had passed a rest area approximately one mile before she crashed. I am a California Highway Patrol Officer. My present assignment is in the Public Affairs field. One of the subjects I cover frequently is the dangers of driving when you are fatigued, drowsy or sleepy
no matter how many times i read his story, i still cry...
:(
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Oct 20, 2012 - 10:11pm PT
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yep, sticking your head out of the window at 70mph in sub freezing temps to stay awake. forgot about that one. once me and joc were driving from san diego to the valley very late at night. we made it to a pullout just inside the valley -- we had a place to live 30 miles away, so it wasen't like we were poaching -- but we were so legitimately exhasted we felt like we were a threat to ourselves and others. then we get tooled by a ranger who forces us back behind the wheel! incredible. as a supervisor, in southern utah, in later years, i made sure everyone knew not to force some exhasted people back behind the wheel. give 'em a ride to a motel if you have to be that badassed about it.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Oct 20, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
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perhaps not responsibible, with thirty+ years of hindsight, but it was a damned good time at the time.
Ahhh, well, I'm always torn on the responsibility stance. I don't actually like no-doze, and every time I've leaned on it, I've paid a substantial price in later days. Sleep doesn't like to be denied for me and generally in the following days, I'm near useless. I hate it, but at the point I even consider it, I'm ready to pay the steep price for a safe ride home. Rare, but I won't say it never happens, or that it never will happen.
Luckily, I've gained a bit more experience in planning my trips so I'm not too exhausted for the ride back. The trip isn't over until I pull up in front of my house, and that's how I think of things. It helps that now I'm not afraid to insist on a hot cup of coffee before the trip home officially commences, even if we have to take out the stove!
Cheers
LS
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 21, 2012 - 01:33am PT
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From a paper on countermeasures:
The most common countermeasures were to stop to take a walk (54%), turn on the radio/stereo (52%), open a window (47%), drink coffee (45%) and to ask passengers to engage in conversation (35%).
Logistic regression analysis showed that counteracting sleepiness with a nap (a presumably efficient method) was practiced by those with experience of sleep-related crashes or of driving during severe sleepiness, as well as by professional drivers,
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Oct 21, 2012 - 01:39am PT
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Did I ever tell ya about the junction of Tennessee & Virginia, hauling boxed beef to the Bronx from Kansas? I drove that road 20 times before I ever saw it, awake, fully anyhow.....
It ain't just you. It's a big road, after all......
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mission
Social climber
boulder,co
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Oct 22, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
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Pedro told me that he brings jalapeno peppers on the long drive to Mexico.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 23, 2012 - 12:09am PT
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If you are sleepy...PULL OVER and rest! In 1962 I fell asleep at the wheel and two of my passengers died including my best friend.
READ THIS!!! READ THIS!!! READ THIS!!!
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Oct 23, 2012 - 12:15am PT
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Word, Jim.
It cannot be emphasized enough.
So sorry, man. That's frickin harsh.
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Steve's sister
Social climber
Las Vegas, NV
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Dec 11, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
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Bump! Holiday driving reminder..........
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Adamame
climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
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I eat puffy cheetos to stay awake. They get stuck in my teeth and I stay awake picking them out.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Dec 11, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
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Climbed a route on Mt Alice, in RMNP, got utterly lost hiking back Sunday night (cloudy, no stars, kept going round in circles in the forest) arrived back at the car about 3am. we both had to work at 8 in Boulder. After we drank our celebratory beers at the car, Dan tried to drive (it was his car) and he made it about 3-4 miles, pulled over.
I took over, made it to Boulder, just. I could stay on the road but certainly not on my side. Luckily there was no other traffic. Had stereo blasting, windows open, screaming into the wind. Dan fell asleep the instant he sat down. Had to stop on outskirts of town to get gas, and this was back in the pre-credit card days when one had to actually go in, leave a 20-spot, pump, then go back in for change (gas was cheap, too). I stumbled bravely in with money in hand and could not utter a word, just stare, zombie-like and hope the guy could figure out what I wanted.
That Monday was a really productive day at work.....
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 28, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
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I'm taking online traffic school right now... thought I'd share this bit as a public service announcement"
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 28, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
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I've fallen asleep "at the wheel" on a long motorcycle ride. Tracy CA to Salt Lake City via Yosemite and Tioga Pass, overnight, nonstop except for gas and meals and two or three naps at the side of the road.
At about hour 24hrs, dozed off in the middle of the morning just after Winnemucca (or was it before?) at about 70 mph.
Woke up just as my front wheel crossed the white line on the roadside. Got on the brakes, pulled off to the side. Crawled (nearly literally) up into the sagebrush. About the time my eyes closed my two buddies showed up on their bikes. We all sacked out in the sun for an hour.
Crazy f***ing 22 year old kids!
The scariest warning on NutAgain's DMV list is suddenly realizing you don't remember the past few minutes. That one can sneak up on you.
I've finally learned three "tricks"
1 - if you're feeling dozy STOP as soon as is reasonably safe. If you can't get off the road turn on your flashers, slow down, move right and stop when you can. At least if you hit something you're more likely to live.
2 - A quick test is to get out and walk around for 10-15 minutes. Sometimes it takes step 3.
3 - SLEEP. I suppose everyone's different on this one. 15 - 20 mins works for me. I'm fortunate that I can sleep anywhere (even while driving a motorcycle). Then after I sleep, I do the walk around for 15 minutes again. Occasionally I've taken a second nap.
I've been extremely lucky to have waked up just in time a few times without a crash.
The No-Doze thing:
NO WAY for me.
Back in the stone age, about the time I fell asleep on my motorcycle, I was driving overnight in a blizzard in Indiana. "Had to make" some place or other in the morning. No-dozed up I noticed in the rear view mirror flashing red and blue lights. I slowed down and the lights got a bit closer but never passed me. After 10 minutes or so (of course I had no idea how long) the red/blue lights turned to amber/white and the big rig pulled out and passed me. I was hallucinating! Pulled over ASAP and had Frank take over the wheel. Never again.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 13, 2015 - 11:53am PT
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Bump. Neebee just reminded me of this thread from here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2716188&
I have actually done a good job overall of making a permanent change in behavior. I have slept on the side of the road at least a handful of times since then, but I have had a few lapses in judgement over the past few years. But when it gets ugly, I do consistently stop now. That is in the midst of a new life pattern where I drive back and forth from LA to SF about 10 times during a summer, along with whatever driving to reach vacation destinations (Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Oregon). I've had many days of 750+ mile driving, mostly LA to SF and back. But honestly, climbing has been on the back burner for me the last few years so I haven't really been tested.
After all that, I still think the worst is the drive home after doing a climb that pushes you to your physical limits. Plan to sleep at least a few hours first, then do the drive.
This is a warning to myself as much as anybody, as I see more Eastern Sierra adventures in my future- backcountry skiing and climbing during weekends from LA. Time pressure for sure, but remember life is precious.
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hamersorethumb
Trad climber
Menlo Park, CA
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Nov 13, 2015 - 12:00pm PT
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Thanks for sharing life saving information.
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