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knudeNoggin
climber
Falls Church, VA
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May 21, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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> 105 replies on a rope question - man that's completely rc.
Nope, pure Taco, admit it. (The strength's in the core, not sheath, so to speak.)
> Man......
> too many unasked or answered questions, like:
HOW MUCH DO YOU WEIGH?
That as much as FF is putting meat into the question of work done
by the rope. The UIAA uses a particular mass in its falls and the
assertions re safety; many (most?) climbers are lighter, and so
are less work for the rope.
> American Alpine Journal documents no broken ropes,
> but plenty of cut ropes and failed knots.
Plenty of these? --failed knots? Do tell!
*kN*
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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May 21, 2009 - 03:25pm PT
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If you took that same whipper on an old rope would you retire it? And if so, why do you think a 70 ft fall would damage an old rope more than a new rope?
Lets look at what happens to a rope in a fall. As you are falling, you are gaining kinetic energy. As the rope starts to come taught, it has to "absorb" that energy. It absorbs the energy by stretching, and in the process of stretching it's fiber are heated up due to friction between the fibers. Really no different than slamming the brakes on a car. If you're going 100 mph in a car and slam on the brakes, they heat up. When you take a long fall, your rope heats up. The more rope that is payed out, the more volume of rope there is to absorb that heat. Nylon/Perlon gets damaged at fairly low temperatures.
Personally I'd relegate such a rope to top roping, or use it as a haul line. My life is worth much more than $200. It's also tough for me to concentrate on leading when I'm questioning my gear.
You can rationalize not retiring the rope, but it sounds like deep down you know you should retire from lead duty. There is something to be said for listening to that little voice when it tells you to be prudent.
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knudeNoggin
climber
Falls Church, VA
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May 21, 2009 - 11:35pm PT
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> My life is worth much more than $200.
Do you buy a new rope for each climb?
--each time you fall?
Why not?
This old "How much is your life worth?" red herring has a long life
of little worth in furthering the understanding of retirement of ropes.
The proper response to much of the doubt in questioners is some
rationale for resolving the problem, not a scare.
*kN*
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captaincrimp
climber
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May 24, 2009 - 02:10pm PT
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in reply to perswig's concern about taking video and belaying:
i was using a hands free video technique that allows me to beley at full potential. that is obvious because i caught a very large whipper. no video of the whip, sorry.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 24, 2009 - 04:56pm PT
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whats the point of running video if you don't catch the whip?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 24, 2009 - 08:22pm PT
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You pay $200 for a rope?
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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May 24, 2009 - 10:38pm PT
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Your rope is fine but if you worry and stress about it when you are leading or following then you aren't.
Better buy a new rope and relax................It's better for your mental health.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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May 24, 2009 - 10:45pm PT
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And don't pay 200 bucks for floss.
Put your money on MEAT. Then ya don't hafta worry & fret.
9.1 mm, sheesh.
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jbar
Social climber
urasymptote
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May 24, 2009 - 10:58pm PT
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Take it back to REI
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erik fischer
Trad climber
houston
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2009 - 12:44am PT
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Thanks to everyone for there advice and encouragement. I have definitely been hitting the books and thinking about what everybody has said. Some questions have been raised so here is some more info on the fall:
#1 My weight 170, Belayer weight 150.
#2 It was fairly steep before I fell. I'm not exactly sure how the fall went down. It was all sort of a blur once I started falling(no I was not on anything). My belayer had a better perspective on the fall than I did but I do remember bouncing off the wall at least once and I was airborne face down by the end of it.
#3 I have used the Beal Joker in the past to save weight on long routes. I did not know that Beals are bad ropes (Definitely something to consider in the future and also the thickness of the rope).
# 4 someone else said that I should be worried more about the cam than the rope. There is nothing to worry about on that point. We left the pro in because it was too difficult to retrieve (It was actually a #3 Black diamond nut).
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kent
Trad climber
SLC, Ut
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May 27, 2009 - 11:57pm PT
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Your rope is probably fine. You should be more concerned about the events that lead you to taking such a big unexpected fall on small pro on a multi-pitch route.
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
OR
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May 28, 2009 - 12:48am PT
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Glad you are okay, Eric. Personally, I'd retire that rope from lead climbing if you can afford it. Seems pretty darn thin anyways for trad climbing on all but very smooth, steep and straight routes. If you are a relatively new leader, you should understand that falls like this should not be typical for most of us.
"The only dumb question is the one not asked."
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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May 28, 2009 - 12:56am PT
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If you keep taking 70' whippers, it's Knott the rope I'd retire.
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phile
Trad climber
SF, CA
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May 28, 2009 - 03:12am PT
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at the opposite end of the spectrum, i have a five-year-old 10.5mm rope that has seen only a small handful of low-FF falls, and not a lot of action in general, but is seriously frizzy from being dragged all over wandering, easy routes.
is age a significant factor in ropes' stretchiness? I don't mind a little frizz, but if the rope gets measurably stiff and brittle with age, that'd be bad. I've heard replace at 5 years, but I've also heard plenty of other gear myths.
thanks for any input. a 70 foot fall sounds terrifying, and like it would take an extremely long time... 3 seconds or so? you can fit a lot of thinking into 3 seconds, i bet.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 28, 2009 - 07:02am PT
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the 5 yr thing is a myth. 10yrs for little to no use as long as properly stored.
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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May 28, 2009 - 09:41am PT
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what Mark said...........LOL!!!!
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wallrat
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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May 31, 2009 - 02:27am PT
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Don't know about retiring the rope, but I'd for sure have to retire the pants I was wearing, if it were me.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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May 31, 2009 - 03:11pm PT
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You're rope is probably fine after that fall, supposing you checked it carefully.
Rope stretch is very important, so some people switch rope ends after a big fall... especially higher fall factor falls. it takes a little time for the rope to reduce the stretch
Someone equated a 70 foot and a 7 foot fall, but i think the much increased speed of the longer falling body would make a difference... i know there is more rope, but it must be worse.
matt
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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May 31, 2009 - 03:42pm PT
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Does meansuring the rope and comparing the length before and after a fall make sense with new ropes?
Eric, there is another possiblity. Keep the rope but don't tie in. Just casually loop it around your harness. That way if you take another whipper, there won't be a risk of any rope damage.
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