Does the end justify the means?

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 41 - 50 of total 50 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

May 4, 2009 - 11:52am PT

Pierre describes tactics that only re-enforce my disdain for the "free is better than aid" school.

And what really cracks me up is the double standard BETWEEN free and aid. 'Don't you dare chip on a free route, but it is OK to slightly alter an aid route with every ascent'.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2009 - 11:59am PT

Right on Pierre! And what about fixing ropes and putting in needless bolts in Patagonia just to get a bigger free climbing number- is that better style?

jstan

climber

May 4, 2009 - 12:11pm PT

I have actually been very reluctant to go look at routes in the Valley I last saw thirty years ago.

Living a long time may be all that is required to be able to do any climb.

Prod

Trad climber

A place w/o Avitars apparently

May 4, 2009 - 12:11pm PT

Hey Jaybro,

I don't know a lot about Trotsky, other than the basics. But Geoffrey Rush played him in Frida and he got to fondle Salma Hayek's boobs. In this case I would say any means that were necessary were fully justified by the ends.

Prod.

stevep

Boulder climber

Salt Lake, UT

May 4, 2009 - 02:30pm PT

Ah yes.
Games Climbers Play.

I'm with Ron. Aid climbers get a huge break on ethics given how frequently their tactics are damaging to the rock. Certainly in areas with softer rock or lots of traffic, bolts might actually have less impact. Or just leave it be.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

May 10, 2014 - 10:23pm PT

seems a long time since we had some intellectual musing - bump

Sanskara

climber

May 10, 2014 - 10:54pm PT

I promise just one...

the albatross

Gym climber

Flagstaff

May 10, 2014 - 11:20pm PT

The Warbler chirped:

I've climbed new routes in every way from pure ground up, bolt free, onsight, to top down, preinspected, cleaned, toproped, rapbolted, hang dogged, and redpointed. I value the former experience more than the latter, but more climbers will ultimately climb the latter than the former.

Well said, thanks.