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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 27, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
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Other potential sources to identify the folks in the pictures are Chris Jones, Dick Erb, Michael Cohen, and Dave and Phil Bircheff. Dick, Michael, and Dave, through his daughter, have posted on ST.
Personally I am hoping that the whole thing is a send up and that the original author and photographer talked this group into posing as 'Frank Sacherer,' in all of his guises. Maybe with a heavy plot throw in on the part of the Curry Company's efforts to turn Camp 4 into Sunnyside.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Apr 27, 2009 - 12:53pm PT
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I know it is starting to be past their time period, but I have also forwarded the photo to Royal and Layton. The more eyes the better.
For what it is worth, I think we can all agree that ST is a FOR PROFIT enterprise, but the context of posting this image is purely historical and no profit can be gained from posting it.
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 27, 2009 - 12:53pm PT
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I believe Guido's guesses are pretty much right on.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Apr 27, 2009 - 01:53pm PT
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In his usual eloquence...
"Due to the graininess of the photo and the dejected and worn look of the individuals I am almost positive it was taken by Mathew Brady After the confederates attempt to take little round top on the second day of the battle of Gettysburg. As you can see in this photo the total disregard for their wounded companion on the ground, their miss matched uniforms and the gaunt look of starvation on their faces that the south was on its way to defeat.
any more questions
Barry" (Bates)
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Apr 27, 2009 - 04:31pm PT
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Jan - "Obviously the image of climbers has improved since then, at least in Yosemite!"
Hahahahahah, you are joking right?. The NPS still thinks we are a bunch of dirt bags.
I will pass this on to Kimbrough.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 27, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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After careful analysis, I believe the real clue as to the characters in this hysterical photo is the individual in the sleeping bag. That would be their leader and the key to this mysterious gathering of the unsavory societal rejects.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 27, 2009 - 05:38pm PT
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I found a picture of many of the same characters in another photo.
This clearly shows the upstanding character of Camp 4 denizens. At least that is the way I remember it.
Little Joe is bottom, right.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 27, 2009 - 06:07pm PT
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Bonnie Kamps sent the following to me via email; I think she meant for it to be shared:
Hi,
Although the circled No. 8 climber has an eerie resemblance to Bob I am
reasonable sure it's not him. The hair is right, but Bob's features were a tad
more rugged. By 1967 he had left the summer heat and crowds of the Valley for
Tuolumne. My database of his climbs shows nothing in the Valley that late.
The last Valley climbing I remember him doing was an aborted attempt on El Cap
with Robbins shortly after we bought our house in 1963.
Bonnie Kamps
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 27, 2009 - 07:16pm PT
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I agree with Bonnie. Although number 9 is wearing a wedding band, his hands and fingers are too slender to be Bob's - besides Kamps never climbed with that many carabiners.
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TomKimbrough
Social climber
Salt Lake City
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Apr 27, 2009 - 09:34pm PT
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#1 is Madsen
#2 is Schmitz
#3 ?
#4 is Bircheff (I think Dave)
#5 is Tom Kimbrough
#6 ?
#7 ?
#8 Sacherer ????
#9 Loyd Price ????
I don't see Beck there and certainly not Kamps.
Tom K
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
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Apr 27, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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#1 is Madsen
#2 is Schmitz
#3 ?
#4 is Bircheff (I think Dave)
#5 is Tom Kimbrough
Thank you sir .
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Apr 27, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
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Here is another voice we don't hear on the ST. I showed it to Dean Caldwell who had this to say,
"#2 could be Kim, I don't think #1 is Frank. I don't recognize anybody else. Actually, I don't think it is Camp4..too flat and too many trees; the building behind #7 isn't in Camp4.
I must admit that from the first post I was nagged b the feeling that the shot is not in C4. It just didn't look right. I don't agree with Dean on the building comment since I do not think that is any form of permanent structure. But the tree spacing seems a bit crowded and, unless it is close to the parking lot or the road then it seems much too flat. I know SAR has moved around a bit over the years (and not sure if you could say it even existed back in 1967 as a special camp), but in the early 70's it was on the hillside at the NW end of camp. I comment on SAR since I do remember a table with books on it.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 11:54pm PT
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I don't see a building behind #7, I see a big canvas tent? And pardon my ignorance but what does SAR stand for? I agree about the trees being too thick, but why would climbers stay somewhere other than Camp 4 which wasn't all that crowded in 1967?
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Apr 28, 2009 - 12:25am PT
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SAR = Search And Rescue
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2009 - 01:46am PT
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I don't think they had a search and rescue in Yosemite in 1967. As I recall, the rangers would just show up in Camp 4 and ask for volunteers if they had a complicated rescue?
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 28, 2009 - 02:11am PT
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Certainly no SAR site in 67 in Camp 4: In season, Hickman and I were SAR.
So Kimbrough is Kimbrough and we have one confirmed.
#4 Bircheff seems a good possibility.
Yo Breedlove , with that photo of yours: Actually I took the photo and the guy in the lower right is my cousin Jimmy and all the rest are "My Uncle Bob." Not "Your Uncle Bob."
cheers
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Apr 28, 2009 - 11:23am PT
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Yeah, Guid, I agree. This is not going too well. I think the majority of these characters are people we might not know.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2009 - 11:31am PT
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Peter-
If it turns out that the majority of these guys aren't known by anyone, including you younger guys, then a lot of us in the older crowd will certainly feel better. Maybe our memories aren't so bad after all!
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 28, 2009 - 03:52pm PT
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Here is what we know so far.
The only names that seem to stick are Kim Schmidt (2), but nobody is sure even though the hair looks like Kim's, and Dave Bircheff (4), but nobody is sure even though the face and body shape looks like Dave's, and Tom Kimbrough (5) who also picked himself out.
Joe also thought (5) was Kimbrough, so we have a place to start, except that Kimbrough (5) thought that Joe was wrong to say that DrDeeg was wrong that Madsen was incognito in no glasses at position (1) and Kimbrough thought that both were wrong on (7) being Eric. Maybe Eric and Jim had taken off their glasses at the request of the photographer, but that would be pure speculation and guess work.
In any case Eric could not clearly see the back of not Glenn’s, not Frank’s, and definitely not Bob’s head in position (8).
Jan says no to Frank being number (8) and Bonny says no to Bob being number (8) so it is too bad Eric didn’t have his glasses on to resolve who the main subject is.
We do know that some people think that (4) looks like Sacherer except to Joe and Kimbrough but Jan was married to Frank and recognizes his clothes, so it likely that Dave had Frank’s clothes on even if he couldn’t get the hair right. In which case it is likely that (3) is Frank without any clothes on and sleeping late because Eric has tricked him by pretending to still be in his sleeping bag which would explain where Eric's glasses are since otherwise Eric always wore his, in which case Barry and Ryan are wrong in the particulars and Peter is right in the particulars, but all three are right in their general assessments.
And Chris isn't saying if The Forum is profitable or not, only that it is cool.
Oh, and honorable mentions to Dennis and Lloyd.
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Apr 28, 2009 - 04:36pm PT
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The lack of glasses could be because it's still early in the morning. Person still in bag, some with jackets still on, and that many people in camp together at the same time.
Even though I wear glasses 99% of the time-I often go a while in morning without
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