Yosemite 1967 Photo - Can you identify these climbers?

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Messages 1 - 90 of total 90 in this topic
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 27, 2009 - 12:15am PT
Below is a photograph of Camp 4 from 1967. I became involved with it as part of a discussion on whether the guy leaning against the left side of the tree was Frank Sacherer or not. I was able to obtain the photo thanks to the research and excellent memory of Steve Roper.

The photo is from the Saturday Review, Jan 1 1972, pg. 41
The Article in which it appears is titled, "National Parks:Pristine Preserve or
Popcorn Playgrounds?"
The Author is Gladwin Hill and the photographer, Bruce Davidson, of the Magnum Agency

The Saturday Review is defunct as are two successor magazines. Since Supertopo is non profit, the copywrite presents no problems. Bruce Davidson however, charges $100 for the use of his photo in any commercial endeavor.



The Photo Caption was: How do we get the schlock out?

In case you're not up on your Yiddish, the definition of a schlock is:
cheap, trashy, junky, evil, a nuisance, or a wretch

Obviously the image of climbers has improved since then, at least in Yosemite!

Meanwhile, can anybody tell me who these guys are? Better yet, can any of them identify themselves and remember if Sacherer was there that day or not?

Thanks! Jan


Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 27, 2009 - 12:30am PT
Here's a version with labels which might help match up names with photos:
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 12:34am PT
Clint-

Leave it to your fine eye for detail to even notice that there's a head sticking out of the bag! Also, kudos for thinking of a numbering system!
Fletcher

Trad climber
the end of the world as we know it, & I feel fine.
Apr 27, 2009 - 12:36am PT
That's a great photo... looking forward to learning who these schmendricks are. Schlock? What is that mishegos all about? Oy gevult!

Fletchnik
tithaf

Trad climber
Colorado Plateau
Apr 27, 2009 - 12:50am PT
I'll send it to Dozier - he's not on ST but he soon will be -
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Apr 27, 2009 - 12:57am PT
Funny, I was thinking about Jeff-he could identify a lot of these people, if not all.
Hello Jeff, hope all is well in Mammoth.
yo

climber
I drink your milkshake!
Apr 27, 2009 - 01:10am PT
2 = John Wilkes Booth

3 = Coiler?



Real guess edit: 5 = Bonington/Chris Jones????
billygoat

climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
Apr 27, 2009 - 01:14am PT
Since when is supertopo a nonprofit?
B-Dog

Trad climber
LOUISIANA
Apr 27, 2009 - 01:18am PT
1.Tom Frost?
8.Glen Denny?
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 01:22am PT
I could be wrong but so far I think everyone's guessing too early? In 1967, the young climbers were a group known to us old geezers as Bridwell's Boys.
DrDeeg

Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Apr 27, 2009 - 02:30am PT
The photo is pretty grainy, and I am getting old (but my season pass at Mammoth next year is 1/2 price, lifetime at the National Parks is $10). Here are my guesses (and believe me, they are all guesses):

1 - Jim Madsen
2 - Kim Schmitz
3 - Can't tell
4 - looks a little like Sacherer but I don't think so (wrong hair)
5 - looks familiar but I don't recall his name
6 - Dennis Hennek
7 - Eric Beck
8 - don't know, but definitely not Glen Denny
9 - can't tell

All these names were around in '67. I could do a better job with the original Sat Review article.
TLloyd-Davies

Social climber
Santa Clara, ca
Apr 27, 2009 - 02:59am PT
Well, that photo is in a book I was just given for my birthday. "El Capitan: Historical Feats and Radical Routes" by Daniel Duane.

The title of the photo is: Frank Sacherer, Camp 4. It doesn't list any specific person just labels the photo.

Supposedly out the collection of Jim Bridwell, that's all the book says. Hope it can help a little.
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 27, 2009 - 03:06am PT
#1 Boche? and not Madsen?

#2 Schmitz

#5 Kimbrough

#7Beck

#8 Sacherer?

Pretty grainy, will send if off to Boche and Hennek and Beck is probably lurking as I speak


Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
Apr 27, 2009 - 03:14am PT
Jan,

I think I can safely say I knew the vast majority, or had
at least a passing acquaintance with most, of the individuals
who visited the Valley in those days.

However, there were plenty of odd souls and faces who drifted
in from the northwest or Wyoming and many places. And there
were lots of Californians who were simply faces of young
aspiring lads, classic "no-names." I was there
a whole lot in 1967, and the only two guesses so far that
seem feasible, the same names of which I too came to as possibilities, are the two on the far left, namely in foreground Jim Madsen, very possibly, and behind him,
also possibly, Kim Schmidz. The second one, because of
the hair, does look like Kim, but it's not certain. Jim
Madsen was rarely without his glasses. This fellow seems
not to wear glasses. The person identified possibly as Eric
Beck, well, again, Eric was rarely without his glasses. That
does not look like Eric to me. Nor did he so casually
find himself in a common photo or group setting...

It's entirely possible that not one of this group is
a name we would recognize. Sorry not to be of more help.

All the best,

Pat
Banjo

Social climber
An edge...
Apr 27, 2009 - 03:43am PT
So, Patrick Oliver, all that was to say... "I don't know"?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 27, 2009 - 03:49am PT
Explaining the reasons behind "I don't know" is helpful.
mcreel

climber
Barcelona, Spain
Apr 27, 2009 - 03:49am PT
Here's a shot of Frank Sacherer for comparison:

A match to #8?
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 03:53am PT
Dr. Deeg-

I have the original Saturday Review article but it doesn't deal with climbers per se. Rather, it is a philosophical piece on how over crowded and underfunded our National Parks are. The photo was included to show how degraded they had become?!

Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 10:41am PT
McCreel-

Definitely not a match to # 8. The question in most people's mind is whether or not it is a match to #4. Several people who knew Sacherer have changed their minds back and forth on the issue several times. From the neck down it looks like him and the clothes he used to wear. Opinion varies on the face and hair do.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 27, 2009 - 10:50am PT
First, I commend Pat on his input. Knowing what something ISN'T is on the path of identifying what it IS.**

I sent this image to Barry Bates, Glen Denny, Steve Roper and Dean Caldwell. All were there at the time and had slightly different crowds they hung with. Hopefully between them we can get a few names nailed.

1967 is before my Ditch time but I feel I have a fair handle on history and my gut tells me these happen to be a collection of climbers in C4. No "names" just climbers.

By the way, the book TLloyd-Davies speaks of, Duane's "El Capitan: Historical Feats and Radical Routes" is well worth getting. You'll see some nice shots you haven't seen before.

** Yea, I can hear Werner now... we can never truly know what IS and ISN'T for presuming to know the ISN'T only darkens the IS.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Apr 27, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
Other potential sources to identify the folks in the pictures are Chris Jones, Dick Erb, Michael Cohen, and Dave and Phil Bircheff. Dick, Michael, and Dave, through his daughter, have posted on ST.

Personally I am hoping that the whole thing is a send up and that the original author and photographer talked this group into posing as 'Frank Sacherer,' in all of his guises. Maybe with a heavy plot throw in on the part of the Curry Company's efforts to turn Camp 4 into Sunnyside.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 27, 2009 - 12:53pm PT
I know it is starting to be past their time period, but I have also forwarded the photo to Royal and Layton. The more eyes the better.

For what it is worth, I think we can all agree that ST is a FOR PROFIT enterprise, but the context of posting this image is purely historical and no profit can be gained from posting it.
Don Lauria

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 27, 2009 - 12:53pm PT
I believe Guido's guesses are pretty much right on.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 27, 2009 - 01:53pm PT
In his usual eloquence...

"Due to the graininess of the photo and the dejected and worn look of the individuals I am almost positive it was taken by Mathew Brady After the confederates attempt to take little round top on the second day of the battle of Gettysburg. As you can see in this photo the total disregard for their wounded companion on the ground, their miss matched uniforms and the gaunt look of starvation on their faces that the south was on its way to defeat.

any more questions
Barry"
(Bates)
Scared Silly

Trad climber
UT
Apr 27, 2009 - 04:31pm PT
Jan - "Obviously the image of climbers has improved since then, at least in Yosemite!"


Hahahahahah, you are joking right?. The NPS still thinks we are a bunch of dirt bags.

I will pass this on to Kimbrough.
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 27, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
After careful analysis, I believe the real clue as to the characters in this hysterical photo is the individual in the sleeping bag. That would be their leader and the key to this mysterious gathering of the unsavory societal rejects.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Apr 27, 2009 - 05:38pm PT
I found a picture of many of the same characters in another photo.



This clearly shows the upstanding character of Camp 4 denizens. At least that is the way I remember it.

Little Joe is bottom, right.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 27, 2009 - 06:07pm PT
Bonnie Kamps sent the following to me via email; I think she meant for it to be shared:

Hi,
Although the circled No. 8 climber has an eerie resemblance to Bob I am
reasonable sure it's not him. The hair is right, but Bob's features were a tad
more rugged. By 1967 he had left the summer heat and crowds of the Valley for
Tuolumne. My database of his climbs shows nothing in the Valley that late.
The last Valley climbing I remember him doing was an aborted attempt on El Cap
with Robbins shortly after we bought our house in 1963.
Bonnie Kamps
Don Lauria

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 27, 2009 - 07:16pm PT
I agree with Bonnie. Although number 9 is wearing a wedding band, his hands and fingers are too slender to be Bob's - besides Kamps never climbed with that many carabiners.
TomKimbrough

Social climber
Salt Lake City
Apr 27, 2009 - 09:34pm PT
#1 is Madsen
#2 is Schmitz
#3 ?
#4 is Bircheff (I think Dave)
#5 is Tom Kimbrough
#6 ?
#7 ?
#8 Sacherer ????
#9 Loyd Price ????
I don't see Beck there and certainly not Kamps.
Tom K
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
Apr 27, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
#1 is Madsen
#2 is Schmitz
#3 ?
#4 is Bircheff (I think Dave)
#5 is Tom Kimbrough
Thank you sir .
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 27, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
Here is another voice we don't hear on the ST. I showed it to Dean Caldwell who had this to say,

"#2 could be Kim, I don't think #1 is Frank. I don't recognize anybody else. Actually, I don't think it is Camp4..too flat and too many trees; the building behind #7 isn't in Camp4.

I must admit that from the first post I was nagged b the feeling that the shot is not in C4. It just didn't look right. I don't agree with Dean on the building comment since I do not think that is any form of permanent structure. But the tree spacing seems a bit crowded and, unless it is close to the parking lot or the road then it seems much too flat. I know SAR has moved around a bit over the years (and not sure if you could say it even existed back in 1967 as a special camp), but in the early 70's it was on the hillside at the NW end of camp. I comment on SAR since I do remember a table with books on it.


Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 11:54pm PT
I don't see a building behind #7, I see a big canvas tent? And pardon my ignorance but what does SAR stand for? I agree about the trees being too thick, but why would climbers stay somewhere other than Camp 4 which wasn't all that crowded in 1967?
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 28, 2009 - 12:25am PT
SAR = Search And Rescue
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2009 - 01:46am PT
I don't think they had a search and rescue in Yosemite in 1967. As I recall, the rangers would just show up in Camp 4 and ask for volunteers if they had a complicated rescue?
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 28, 2009 - 02:11am PT
Certainly no SAR site in 67 in Camp 4: In season, Hickman and I were SAR.

So Kimbrough is Kimbrough and we have one confirmed.

#4 Bircheff seems a good possibility.

Yo Breedlove , with that photo of yours: Actually I took the photo and the guy in the lower right is my cousin Jimmy and all the rest are "My Uncle Bob." Not "Your Uncle Bob."

cheers
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Apr 28, 2009 - 11:23am PT
Yeah, Guid, I agree. This is not going too well. I think the majority of these characters are people we might not know.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2009 - 11:31am PT
Peter-

If it turns out that the majority of these guys aren't known by anyone, including you younger guys, then a lot of us in the older crowd will certainly feel better. Maybe our memories aren't so bad after all!
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Apr 28, 2009 - 03:52pm PT
Here is what we know so far.

The only names that seem to stick are Kim Schmidt (2), but nobody is sure even though the hair looks like Kim's, and Dave Bircheff (4), but nobody is sure even though the face and body shape looks like Dave's, and Tom Kimbrough (5) who also picked himself out.

Joe also thought (5) was Kimbrough, so we have a place to start, except that Kimbrough (5) thought that Joe was wrong to say that DrDeeg was wrong that Madsen was incognito in no glasses at position (1) and Kimbrough thought that both were wrong on (7) being Eric. Maybe Eric and Jim had taken off their glasses at the request of the photographer, but that would be pure speculation and guess work.

In any case Eric could not clearly see the back of not Glenn’s, not Frank’s, and definitely not Bob’s head in position (8).

Jan says no to Frank being number (8) and Bonny says no to Bob being number (8) so it is too bad Eric didn’t have his glasses on to resolve who the main subject is.

We do know that some people think that (4) looks like Sacherer except to Joe and Kimbrough but Jan was married to Frank and recognizes his clothes, so it likely that Dave had Frank’s clothes on even if he couldn’t get the hair right. In which case it is likely that (3) is Frank without any clothes on and sleeping late because Eric has tricked him by pretending to still be in his sleeping bag which would explain where Eric's glasses are since otherwise Eric always wore his, in which case Barry and Ryan are wrong in the particulars and Peter is right in the particulars, but all three are right in their general assessments.

And Chris isn't saying if The Forum is profitable or not, only that it is cool.

Oh, and honorable mentions to Dennis and Lloyd.

Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Apr 28, 2009 - 04:36pm PT
The lack of glasses could be because it's still early in the morning. Person still in bag, some with jackets still on, and that many people in camp together at the same time.
Even though I wear glasses 99% of the time-I often go a while in morning without
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 28, 2009 - 04:42pm PT
So here is another voice... I just heard from Royal,

"Sorry, no, I don't know who they are. What a bunch of skinny bastards. Don't they ever eat?

Best Regards,
Royal"
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Apr 28, 2009 - 04:53pm PT
To add on to what Roger is saying, if Frank is (3), then Who's on first?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

And while I'm as more guilty than many of contributing to OT threads, it is threads like this that really make the Taco. Looks at all the years of history and experience we've had chime in to this simple question.
tithaf

Trad climber
Colorado Plateau
Apr 28, 2009 - 05:55pm PT
Sounds like RR is the one who needs glasses ....
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Apr 28, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
Can't we scrape some DNA from that photo??

Wait.....here they are...AGAIN!!!!


I think that's Madsen on the left, Sacherer is second from right, and of course that's Bridwell third from right.....

jstan

climber
Apr 28, 2009 - 06:24pm PT
I have to ask. How is it this Kimbrough guy thinks he knows so much? Eh?
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 28, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
Reporting from Britton Hill, Florida's high point at 345 feet we now have input from Steve Roper...

Hi, Simon. #1 sure isn't Sacherer in my opinion. I'd say 4 is more likely, given his slouch and distance from the rest. #2 is probably Kim. #5 might be Tom Kimbrough. #8 looks like a chap named Steve Williams.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Apr 28, 2009 - 08:06pm PT
What do you say Eric, is number (8) 'Lightning Slings?' I can sort of see the resemblance.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 28, 2009 - 08:28pm PT
Can't be Bridwell - he'd be wearing paisley. Colourful paisley, as Lynne likes so much.
Dick Erb

climber
June Lake, CA
Apr 28, 2009 - 09:28pm PT
The ones I am most sure of are;
4-Dave Bircheff
5-Tom Kimbrough
8-Steve Williams, aka Lightning Slings(Beckism)

Also;
7-Not Eric Beck
1-Not Jim Madsen, maybe Boche?
2-I can see why some might say Kim Schmitz, I'm not so sure
TomKimbrough

Social climber
Salt Lake City
Apr 28, 2009 - 10:03pm PT
I still say # 1 is Madsen and #2 is Schmitz. You gotta remember how many mind altering drugs this entire group must have consumed along with their breakfast Wheaties. I'm sure that accounts for any missing glasses, odd hair, strange expressions, etc.
I would expect Lighting Slings to be with this bunch but I don't see him.
Well, I'm off to take my mind altering drugs and head to bed.....
Kimbrough
yo

climber
I drink your milkshake!
Apr 28, 2009 - 10:11pm PT
So what's the story on Lightning Slings? Slow?


Bored edit:


L to R: Joe Fitschen, Klaus, Mom(?), Chris Mac
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Apr 28, 2009 - 11:57pm PT
5: Kimbrough
8: Steve Williams aka Slings

I do not see myself, although might not recoginze him.

Slings got his name from an ascent of Swan Slab. He was leading the 2nd pitch (aid back then). It was very early season and had gone into shadow and I was getting cold. I inquired what was going on up there. He replied "Lightning slings Williams here". This name proved to be particularly sticky, especially after Kimbrough, one day greeted him with "Hi Slings".
TomKimbrough

Social climber
Salt Lake City
Apr 29, 2009 - 09:39am PT
A note on the grim side: Assuming that #1 is Madsen (although no one seems to agree with me that it is) and assuming that it is indeed 1967, Madsen has only months to live if it is Spring and only weeks if it Fall.
He and I, along with Schmitz, were in Peru that summer and Madsen was killed late that Fall.
(I think I have this timing right.)
Slings was the first person to find Madsen's body and I don't think he ever quite recovered from it.
For those that don't know of Madsen:
He was the brightest young star of those years.
He rapped off the end of his rope at the top of El Cap while checking on Pratt and Fredricks who had been stuck on the Dihedral in an early season storm.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Apr 29, 2009 - 10:00am PT
I agree with Eric Beck. All we have is Kimbrough and Steve Williams.

It was weird for me to see Williams from 1967, having known him only later, from 1970-1972 after he had obviously thrown so much away. And it took me a bunch of looks to recognize him after Roper pointed out his identity. Sheesh.

No way that is Schmitz, sorry. Too short, too ugly. Not Madsen, Not Sacherer.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Apr 29, 2009 - 11:46am PT
Hi Peter, I had the same impression when Steve pointed out Slings. I only knew him in 1970 onwards. Folks were crazy to take so many drugs.

I think that the Dave Bircheff is there too. It just looks like Dave's face and body language. I also tried to figure out the relative size of number 2 as Kim relative to number 4 as Dave. It seems to me that they are both about the same distance from the camera in which case, number is 2 is too small to be Kim.
Barry Bates

Boulder climber
Smith River CA
Apr 29, 2009 - 12:37pm PT
Hi Peter and Roger

It took me a few times to recognize slings, by the 70's he had shoulder length hair and looked a lot different. I still remember him for his great sense of humor. He and Klemons always seemed to have a friendly battle going on giving each other a bad time about everything. Bircheff told me when they did the Bircheff williams at some point in the climb steve untied from the rope for some reason, at the same time he stood up on a sling clipped into a pin,the pin popped steve dropped just a few inches, his feet landing on a very small ledge, Dave looked down to see steve arms extended out spinning in the air to maintain balance and not go over backwards into oblivion. One of those heart stopping moments!!
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
If you look carefully at #2 he is wearing glasses (a magnifying lens helps). I don't recall Schmitz ever had glasses. Also I agree that the guy in the photo isn't tall enough and his hair seems way too dark as well.

Meanwhile I'm wondering if Bircheff was good at crack climbing? Since he looks so much like Frank from the neck down, I'm wondering if all the speculations about Frank's narrow torso being particularly suited to crack climbing applied to Bircheff as well?
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Apr 29, 2009 - 12:50pm PT
Hi Barry,

Great to have you joining in. I too remember Slings' humor and easy going nature. He always seemed to have a wry 'editoral' comment on what ever was going on at the moment.

All the best, Roger

PS: Is that you in the position 3?
jstan

climber
Apr 29, 2009 - 12:55pm PT
One of ST's expert photoshoppers needs to go to the Saturday Review and get a print that has not been half toned. It should not be any problem getting the print as there is a new article about Jim Madsen for that magazine just waiting to be written.

A heart breaker.
Barry Bates

Boulder climber
Smith River CA
Apr 29, 2009 - 01:16pm PT
Roger

Your right that's me number 3 I've managed to maintain that position for almost 40 years now.

Barry
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Apr 29, 2009 - 01:22pm PT
Barry Wily Bates
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2009 - 01:24pm PT
jstan-

Saturday Review went out of business a long time ago. The person to deal with is Bruce Davidson of Magnum Agency. Roper mentioned that he wanted $100 for reproducing the photo in Roper's book, and since he couldn't identify most of the principles, Steve decided not to include it.

I agree that an article is just waiting to be written about Madsen.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 29, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
I have written to Bruce Davidson to see if he has any notes from the day. We'll see if he can help clear up this puzzle!

And Barry... I thought you were adamant these fellows were from the Confederate Army. Changing your opinion, are we?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 29, 2009 - 01:45pm PT
I happened to mention this photo to Robert Summers at a slideshow on Monday night. He was there at the time and remembers the whole thing. He knew about the Saturday Review article, and described the photo to me (including the "bookshelf" on lower right), and named himself, Mark Klemens and Steve Williams. Robert said he didn't think Frank Sacherer was in it. I sent him the URL of this thread so he could check out the people as I numbered them.

It was at Bridwell's site in Camp 4, late August or September 1967 (or possibly 1966).

This smooth-talking photographer shows up and wants to get a bunch of the climbers in a photograph. He promises them a nice 8 x 10 print if they participate. So they line up and he shoots it. Months pass; does the promised print ever get delivered? No. (Maybe it's time for Bruce Davidson to finally deliver on his promise?)


caption below from Robert Summers' email to me this morning:

1 Madsen
2 Schmitz
3
4 Dave Bierchieff(sp?)
5 someone else guessed Ton Kimbrough that's probable
6 Mark Klemens
7
8 Steve Williams
9 Robert Summers
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 29, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
For what it is worth, here is the rest of the right side.

Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2009 - 09:04pm PT


The non schlock of Camp 4 - 1967

Same photographer

Just so you know what we were supposed to be aiming for!
Dick Erb

climber
June Lake, CA
Apr 29, 2009 - 09:30pm PT
I think Bob Summers got it right.

1-Jim Madsen rarely seen without glasses was the undisputed top climber of his generation in Yosemite, athletic strong and driven. He was knocking off the biggest climbs in the fastest times. He thought El Cap would be good practice for bigger walls in Patagonia.

2-Kim Schmitz looks like he is at the beginning of a transition from an Oregon teenager to a California hippie. He and Madsen were the great team from the NW.

3-If we can find him will he remember?

4-Dave Bircheff one of Bridwell's boys at the time, became a good climber in his own right.

5-The always interesting Tom Kimbrough.

6-Mark Klemens: I'll take Bob's word for it.

7-My first impression was Larry Dalke. I know he was there that year. What do you think Pat?

8-Steve Williams: This is how he looked when he first came to the Valley. He appeared to be an entirely normal good looking Southern California high school graduate. How many of us have been changed by a few years in the Valley?

9-Bob Summers: At first I didn't recognize him. Even though we did the Diamond together that year, and also got hauled before the RMNP Commissioner together for illegal camping.
Barry Bates

Boulder climber
Smith River CA
Apr 29, 2009 - 11:48pm PT
Jan
Thanks for the non-schlock photo I'd forgotten what C4 could be like before it became a walk in campground . I spent the summer of 68 climbing with some English climbers. I still remember one of them commenting that he was surrounded by things that should be on the ocean and not on land. I assume he ment the trailers and RV's not the people. Makes me thankful that I've always been such a bad shot.
Thanks again for the post Barry
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 30, 2009 - 02:32am PT
Check the trailer trash photo carefully:

The guy in the white tee shirt, on the left, sitting next to the trailer appears to be Roper on steroids. In the background, the guy with the hat is Harding, eyeing the "lady" in the classic trailer slouch position to his left. Oh yes, you have to love Camp 4 in all its aberrations and weirdness.
DrDeeg

Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Apr 30, 2009 - 11:52am PT
Erb's summary is likely correct.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2009 - 07:34pm PT
I was interested that Dick Erb thought # 7 could be Larry Dalke. That was my impression too but then I thought it couldn't be him - I didn't know he was in the Valley at that time, and I never saw him with his hair that long. I concur with Dick though, that we need Pat's opinion.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Apr 30, 2009 - 07:58pm PT
I wasn't expecting any helpful news from Layton Kor as this was a bit past his time in the Valley. He wrote to say he did not recognize anyone.
Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
May 10, 2009 - 01:38am PT
Sorry for tuning in late. I have been busy.

That is definitely not Larry Dalke. He was there
in 1967, with me, but soon after he went into a
kind of detached phase, relating to some heavy-
duty girlfriend issues. I don't remember him being
in the Valley much at all in 1968.
I would have climbed with Larry, had he been there,
as we were still best friends then, but I was with
Higgins and Royal and Pratt most of the time, and
a few others. Let's see, now that I
think about it, he might have cruised out for a brief
stay at one point, because I recall him tagging along
one day when Pratt and I were climbing a bunch of
cracks on Reed Pinnacle. Larry didn't go along on those
but waited and greeted us when we came down. I think
that was in 1968 when I did Sentinel with Pratt, but
Dalke, if there, was only there for a few days.
I can't remember when he and Madsen made an ascent of
the Robbins-McCracken route on Upper Yosemite Falls. That
could have been during that stay in 1968. Dick Erb: Dalke
was very strong like Madsen, even a better free climber
though, while Madsen was in a better state of mind and
ready to climb all the time. Dalke was really slowed by
those mental issues, women, and so forth, a tough time
for him...
In any case, I know and remember Larry well enough to easily say
that's not him in this photo.

I strongly disagree that Mark Klemens is in any of these
photos. That doesn't look like the Mark I knew, or
anything like him. Mark's hair, as I recall, was dark and
rich.

I still say that could be Kim Schmitz, as it really has
his demeanor, if such can be captured largely in silhouetted,
but again, Madsen...
it's possibly him, probably because we think of those two
as always being together, but I never saw Jim once without
his glasses... Jim... what a great fellow. I remember arriving
in the Valley and he came up to me and greeted me with a
welcoming gift of a bag of reefer! We'd never met before,
but he instantly became a friend (not because of the reefer,
because I had already given all that stuff up completely)...

Dick, the comment about Madsen being the strongest
of that generation. I always wanted to be more specific,
in terms of people's talents. Everyone had his or her
strengths and weaknesses and gifts. Jim wasn't a great
free climber at all, not even in a remote league with, say,
Peter Haan, and not the delicate foot work kind of guy of
a Higgins or Kamps, and no special crack climber, like Pratt.
There were plenty around who could climb much harder. His gift
was raw energy and speed, mad desire, like Kor, a voracious
appetite for the rock, for moving up it... He fits your
description, in terms of that brief era and the big walls,
I think, specifically.

Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
May 18, 2014 - 12:02am PT
simply put, that is not Klemens at #6.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2014 - 12:30am PT
I had forgotten about this fun thread.

Meanwhile, I'm going to contradict Pat and say I think # 7 is Larry Dalke.

It's hard to identify people sometimes and Pat and I have an ongoing dispute about another photo that Frank for sure was in, with Pat saying Bridwell is in the background and me saying it was Layton. When I asked Layton, he affirmed it was him.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Feb 20, 2015 - 06:04pm PT
3-If we can find him will he remember?

He remembers.

It's the Reverend Jeff Mathis fast asleep.

He insists that it is he, and he never lies!

Number five we never were sure of who he was.

And the LAST GUY?

That depends.

Take his dime and call someone who gives a fawk.

[Click to View YouTube Video]He had this huge mattress, too, usually in an old canvas tent.
mastadon

Trad climber
crack addict
Feb 20, 2015 - 06:50pm PT
9 - Cowan
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Feb 20, 2015 - 07:34pm PT
'cha smokin' Kevin?
some list ya made the f*#k up
smoke weed every day
Rollover

climber
Gross Vegas
Feb 20, 2015 - 09:10pm PT
Bridwell #3? Who knows??
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2015 - 12:05am PT
What's Honnold doing in Warbler's list? He wasn't even born in 1967.
Daniel Pontbriand

Mountain climber
Grafton, New Hampshire
Mar 30, 2016 - 05:10am PT
Looking for photos of Yosemite dated June 2, 1967. Looking for weather and cloud ceiling information regarding a missing aircraft from that date that may have flown over Yosemite.. Thanks Dan
WBraun

climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 08:29am PT
Daniel

I suggest you try Doug Robinson and he might have knowledge to lead you to people in the direction to what you are seeking.

http://movingoverstone.com/
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 9, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
bump
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Apr 9, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
I thought #2 might be Tom Gerhughty, the face looks similar, and the color of hair, I met him a couple of years after this, and he had gained some weight by then.

One person who might have input would be Fossil Climber, or Loyd Price.
Chris Jones

Social climber
Glen Ellen, CA
Apr 10, 2018 - 02:08pm PT
Missed this thread before. Pity we don't have a decent reproduction of this notorious photo; would maybe enable us to figure out more. Clint Cummins' and Dick Erb have it right as far as I can tell. Cummins' list below with couple of comments:

1 Madsen - certainly
2 Schmitz - certainly
3
4 Dave Bierchieff(sp?) - am unable to confirm.
5 someone else guessed Ton Kimbrough that's probable - Tom himself asserted that it was he, so no guess.
6 Mark Klemens - unable to confirm
7
8 Steve Williams - certainly
9 Robert Summers - certainly
i-b-goB

Social climber
Wise Acres
Apr 10, 2018 - 02:43pm PT

1 - Harder
2 - Kauk
3 - Yabo
4 - Ciley
5 - Baba
6 - Middendorf
7 - Werner
8 - Honnold
9 - Unknown

Hey Warbler,
#9 is Billy Russell (kinda looks like him, hee hee)

mouse, see the bottom of the previous page!
vvvv lol ; )
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 10, 2018 - 02:44pm PT
^^^Yer whacked, i.b.

Chris, I concur with your list of names for this C4 rogues' gallery.

Here is a photo I took four years ago at Jeff Mathis' forest hideaway, Camp Runamucka. It is his original clipping of this vintage masterpiece of "Schlock Doc." Those IDs of yours, Chris, are exactly the ones which Mathis holds to.

This clipping was hung in the workshop at Sunset Inn for years and kept by Jeff in his collection of old photos.

I think it is clearer than the rest of these copies, which are a bit grainy.

I'm still going with Mathis as the sacked out #3.

All the best to you. See you at the Bridwell gig.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Apr 10, 2018 - 04:03pm PT
Great thread to show the progression of real knowledge to spiritual knowledge to fake news to cosmic awareness.

A real event capture in hexameter by a blind Greek poet who made a living by reciting a really long poem, with signature grammatical errors. Some variation in characterization of the real event by later civilizations, if we can call them that. New theories. New truths. All we need is for Slings Williams to reincarnate. Highly likely in my opinion.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 10, 2018 - 04:45pm PT
Mouse,
Thanks for sharing the saved clipping from Saturday Review.
It's less cropped on all sides, showing things like a sleeping bag left of Madsen, the bookshelf on the right better, and Steve Williams' bare feet.
Plus that caption!
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 10, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
I have authenticated Mr. Williams signature.

His wrist was a little shaken having just been out arm wrestled by Hugh
up here already.

Is this

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