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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jul 24, 2005 - 01:45pm PT
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my guess is that neither Minerals or Nanook is going to post to this thread again since it contains the words "Power Drill."
it must suck living with such a dark shamefull secret.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 24, 2005 - 08:03pm PT
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Intelligent people can bolt intelligently whether hand drilling or power drilling.
Idiots will always screw up bolting whether hand drilling or power drilling.
It’s not the tools but definitely the user. If one can not understand this basic fundamental and simple thing then it will become a terrible tragedy in your reasoning.
I have seen the results of all of the above ………..
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jul 24, 2005 - 09:14pm PT
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"Idiots will always screw up bolting whether hand drilling or power drilling."
geee... it sounds like Jody defending his guns.
(and I agree with you 100%, werner)
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jul 25, 2005 - 12:03am PT
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Werner, your comment is true. howver, you can't argue that a power tool won't help facilitate iresponsible drilling.
For instance, without a power tool I doubt those 100's of 3/8 bolts with hangers would have been placed on T-Trip in new holes, rather then 1/4 inchers re-using the old holes.
It is true people can do dumb things with a hand drill also though, no arguing that...
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lunchbox
Trad climber
santa cruz, ca
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Jul 25, 2005 - 12:48am PT
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I remember tons of Zmack rivets on this route. if they have all been replaced with phat new bolts then we're basiclly left with a slightly harder version of the WFLT.
All drilled placements are not created equal and you can feel the difference when you stand above one. Zmacks are truely scary, but TDA's where still in good shape.
As of one year ago most of the belay's had already been added to, and the new bolts sat right next to the old ones. we're not talking about old school 1/4 inchers either. this route was put up in the late 80's. the belay's in the main corner could be backed up with a little gear.
i for one am glad to have climbed this one before the new gear and would love to know just what has changed.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 25, 2005 - 12:56am PT
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Yes, I have to agree it’s much easier to become irresponsible with a power bolt gun than a hand drill. This is probably the main motivating factor that convinced the land managers to outlaw them.
Unfortunately the responsible folks lost out on a useful tool.
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Wrathchild
climber
right behind you
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Jul 25, 2005 - 09:57am PT
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Trust me, they didn't lose out on a useful tool, they just had to hide it better.
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John F. Kerry
Social climber
Boston, MA
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Jul 25, 2005 - 03:37pm PT
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Are you guys actually endorsing the replacement of Z-Macs and dowels with more Z-Macs and dowels?
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monkey
Big Wall climber
slc ut
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Jul 26, 2005 - 02:42pm PT
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How the hell do you expect eric to redrill a hole if you cant remove the damn dowels, they dont have heads on them?. Should he put in buttonheads that arent worth a damn in the long run.
Rebolting is alot of work, time and money. If you dont like how he does it then do it yourself.
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monkey
Big Wall climber
slc ut
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Jul 26, 2005 - 02:42pm PT
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How the hell do you expect eric to redrill a hole if you cant remove the damn dowels, they dont have heads on them?. Should he put in buttonheads that arent worth a damn in the long run.
Rebolting is alot of work, time and money. If you dont like how he does it then do it yourself.
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Pat Spydell
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 26, 2005 - 07:09pm PT
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Just remember, more climbing accidents will directly result in more restrictions imposed on the sport. Eric is a good guy and KNOWS HIS SH#T.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2005 - 07:39pm PT
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"Just remember, more climbing accidents will directly result in more restrictions imposed on the sport. Eric is a good guy and KNOWS HIS SH#T."
Mid-afternoon, September 8th, 2004, Tangerine Trip – a climber dies on the most over-bolted route in Yosemite, a route re-bolted by Erik Sloan.
YOU CANNOT PUT SAFETY INTO THE CLIMB BUT YOU CAN PUT SAFETY INTO THE CLIMBER.
Remember that.
Pat – Tell Steve that I said hello.
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Pat Spydell
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 26, 2005 - 09:07pm PT
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Steve?
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Wade Icey
Social climber
the EPC
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Jul 26, 2005 - 09:28pm PT
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"Steve?"
Hey Pat, think keyframe animation, full immersion and Norby/defcon.
S
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Pat Spydell
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 26, 2005 - 10:10pm PT
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Ahh Ha!.. I read you. Steve's the man. Have not seen him around though. The size of this world really blows my mind sometimes, ya know?
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Pat Spydell
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 26, 2005 - 10:14pm PT
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Hey Steve!!! That kid really did work at a super classified nuclear facility and had top level clearance... so naturally, I had to spew it all over the web!
Remember when we were trying to figure out the name of that route I soloed? It was Braile Book. Its been eating away at me for a month now. Anyway, glad to know you're still around.
P
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jul 26, 2005 - 11:32pm PT
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"YOU CANNOT PUT SAFETY INTO THE CLIMB BUT YOU CAN PUT SAFETY INTO THE CLIMBER.
Remember that."
Hey Minerals, are you sure you didn't mean that the other way around?
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ChrisW
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Jul 27, 2005 - 03:15pm PT
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No, I think he met to say it that way?
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jul 27, 2005 - 04:15pm PT
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I understand what he meant to say by that statement but the statement itself is not actually true.
It's like saying "You can't put safety into a car but you can put safety into the driver". Of course, both are possible.
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