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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jan 16, 2009 - 06:56pm PT
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Why the desire to take away from the joy people are feeling?
If it had been self-preservation, alone, the man wouldn't have thought to walk the plane for others; he'd have gotten his butt out and not looked back.
When the trade towers were hit, many people evacuated in orderly way, assisting others too weak - carrying people in wheelchairs!
People DO step up to the plate and think of others in times of crisis. Other times, people panic or get selfish. Either way, the energy is pervasive.... Had this pilot acted selfishly, his crew likely would have too, and it would have likely ended in an entirely different scenario than what we had - passengers waiting in freezing water patiently for rescue.
edit: What does it matter if there was some fear, self-centeredness in his thoughts; from all accounts so far, the thing went off well. He knows his inner thoughts, and he may very well come out and say "Yeah, I was ready to THROW anyone I found in that plane out the door, I was so ready to get out!" He gets to live with his thoughts for the rest of his life - we don't need to do that for him!
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jan 16, 2009 - 07:00pm PT
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He's a hero because he made the difficult decision to ditch instead of attempting to
make it to an airport, which could have failed and resulted in the deaths of all abroad,
and possibly many more on the ground. And he pulled it off in the best way imaginable.
That, my friend, is a hero, believe it or knott.
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Jan 16, 2009 - 07:08pm PT
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happiegrrrl, that was his JOB. I just have a degree of concern when the word "hero" is overused. To me a hero would be some citizen on the shore, jumping into the water to save someone.
The guy did his job very well.
And HK he made the intelligent decision, not a difficult one. I applaud the pilots handling of a difficult situation.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 07:51pm PT
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I hear the NTSB is testing him for drugs/alcohol...
It may be procedure, but c'mon!!!!
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Jan 16, 2009 - 07:54pm PT
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Laughing...^^^I once partied with an entire flight crew until 4 in the morn...and their flight left White Plains at 7:00! (one reason I have never flown Northwest).
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
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The story of the Gimli glider was mentioned upthread - Gimli being a town south of Winnipeg founded by Icelanders. Reilly mentioned that "Not to worry, the B757 is a splendid glider, as all airliners are." I don't remember if it was a Boeing 757 or a 767, but do recall that it was a relatively new model. And that unlike most previous commercial jets, it had reasonable gliding capabilities. Most jets, like the 747, glide like rocks.
It does go to show why they put airports in flat places near water, when they can. Although that helps more on take-off than landing, given that airspeed is lower. (F = MV squared.)
Another jet apparently downed by Canadian geese, aka the Canadian air force. Probably snuck by Homeland Security. Though we do have some F-18s and other stuff.
I worked for several summers in the bush, doing geological exploration. Spending a lot of time in helicopters. You quickly learned which pilots had spent time in Vietnam, as they were much more experienced and assertive. Maybe not always "by the book", but with great experience in challenging situations.
The civil and military aviation systems are inextricably interlinked, though more so in the US than Canada.
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Jan 16, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
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I am emailing Stephen Colbert about those damn Canadian Geese right now. Something tells me that Tami is behind these attacks on America. Raising Canadian Geese are you Tami?
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 16, 2009 - 09:16pm PT
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Umm, the Shuttle has the aerodynamics of a brick, so lets put it at one end of the glider scale.
Put a good tow line glider at the other end.
Somewhere in between will be your various aircraft.
Choppers excluded.
This aircraft was much closer to the shuttle than a regular glider. Especially with a full tank of fuel.
He had the flaps in already, which, for a water landing, is the right setting, at least thats what the pilot on NPR said.
The nose was also up, so in a Dead Stick situation like this, he had to avert a stall rather quickly, which means get the nose down using your forward momentum.
He had to pitch the nose up at the last second to put a little bit of the plane in the water at a time, and to keep it from cartwheeling due to the nose going in.
So it was a great job, considering he did not have the same glide path as a normal landing.
Vision can be a problem, his nose is 40 feet in the air when the tail hits.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jan 16, 2009 - 09:27pm PT
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....for some reason, while reading that landing info, I was imagining a goose coming in for a water landing - you know, how they sort of pull up and dunk their butt first, then "set 'er down?"
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Jan 16, 2009 - 11:03pm PT
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LOL.
Nobody noticed that is was colder than a witches ... the captain is staying inside out of the wind and water.
Just kidding.
Send the women and children out on the wing. We will wait for the ferries, thank you.
It was a nice landing. I hear the A-320 has a DITCH button in the cockpit that shuts various intakes that would allow water into the cabin.
Landing on the water at 150 knots is a little bit easy. Only slightly different than landing on concrete - except it is gear up, and the engines instead of sliding down the runway will turn into sea-anchors, until they get ripped off the pod or the pods off the wings.
We don't know yet, but the pilot might even have landed sooner than necessary (he can't land later, but he can use techniques to lose energy and land sooner - such as cross controlling). Landing sooner could have saved many lives. A couple miles further downriver would have been 10-20 minutes farther from ferry boats.
Or he might have just been lucky. Is 900 feet "above the bridge"
above the roadway, above the towers, or was it 900 feet altitude.
1000 feet of altitude at best glide speed gets him about 3 miles. I think he landed more than 3 miles from the bridge. So maybe he had plenty of energy there.
Do you know a really good glider pilot can cut a ribbon 15 feet off the ground and then loop up and land on the runway where the ribbon was?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 16, 2009 - 11:17pm PT
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One of the most impressive things I've ever seen, (twice) Was Hoover's energy conservation (air speed) demonstration in a Aerocomander twin.
A complete aerobatic routine including several passes down the center line and a loop.
No engines!
Ending with a dead stick landing and enough energy left to park the plane facing the reviewing stand and get out with the signature straw hat.
This dude has the same chops!
Expert , now doubt!
Not something a merely "good" pilot would likely be able to pull off.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 17, 2009 - 12:44am PT
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Let's not forget this guy used to catch a cable on a landing deck the size of a postage stamp, and coming in a little hotter:
"Striker, your coming in too hot!"
"What's our Vector, Victor?"
"Give me some Clearnance, Clarence!"
"Roger, Roger"
Shirley, you must be joking?'
Weird that this simulated terrorist attack happened during "W's" going away party.
I am sure Letterman and Leno are making big offers.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 17, 2009 - 01:39am PT
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GLee
Trad climber
Charlie B's
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Jan 17, 2009 - 08:47pm PT
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All airline pilot captains in the left seat should be FAA rated commercial glider instructors!!!
When is the ticker tape parade, New York??
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
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Jan 17, 2009 - 10:06pm PT
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TGT Bob Hoover was an amazing pilot. I almost got a ride in his P-51 but his insurance put a stop to that! what a ride that would have been.
Ok, yeah, let's here it for glider pilots!!! my son is a Captain on a regional carrier, he's got his glider rating, (soloed on his 14th b-day), glider commercial rating and a gazillion hours towing up gliders in very adverse conditions. No military experience but he has over 9,000 civilian hours flying, the kid was motivated.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jan 17, 2009 - 10:13pm PT
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hey there.... i saw this and thought you'd like to see it, as well... it was on a large page, and hard to find, so i posted it here...
it is a bit of the "behind the scenes" ... seems it is still a hard situation for all inside, once the initail landing fear is over---folks CAN TRAMPLE others and not even care, thus hurting the very chance for the next needed MOVE to survival---as this mentioned, the fast SHIFT of weight due to panicing folks, was not good at all, sadly, but still, by god's grace, and the plane stayed in place long enough for folks to get saved:
An excerpt from the New York Daily News:
"The captain just said, 'Brace for impact,'" Kolodjay said. "And that's what we all did. We put our heads down. We got ready."
Some people locked arms. Others prayed.
"I thought we were going to die. I kept thinking to myself, 'I never got to tell my family I love them every day,'" said grandmother Elizabeth McHugh, 64, of Charlotte, N.C.
An eerie silence fell over the cabin as the blue-and-gray jet plunged a final 100 feet.
"I noticed the New York skyline getting closer and closer," said Dave Sanderson, 47, a married father of four who works for Oracle in Charlotte and was here on business.
The plane hit the water and Sanderson, sitting in 15-A, smacked his head on the seat in front of him. He lifted it to see "controlled chaos" unfolding around him.
"People started running up and down aisles. People were yelling and pushing," Sanderson said.
A crowd surged to the back of the plane, where the emergency exits were located. The rush caused the rear of the plane to start sinking, and water poured into it.
"The water was up to my neck. I thought I was going to drown right there because I couldn't move," said Zuhowski, who stripped down to his underwear so his wet clothes wouldn't weigh him down.
As the 40-degree river water sloshed through the fuselage, some passengers clambered over seats - ignoring calls to "Calm down!"
Chivalry proved to be very much alive on the flight, full of business executives from Bank of America, Wachovia and TIAA-Cref.
"Women and children first!" the men shouted as 85-year-old Lucille Palmer, on her way to celebrate her great-grandson's birthday, was helped to the front.
Sanderson hung back and helped a woman with a 6-month-old baby through the door. She stood on the wing with the child in her arms while people in the rafts yelled to her.
"Just throw the baby to me," one woman urged. She reluctantly dropped the infant down and was then helped into the raft.
Most people readily abandoned their coats and carry-on luggage - grabbing yellow life vests and seat cushions instead as they headed for the exits.
One woman wouldn't get off without her luggage and had to be shoved through the door, Sanderson said. He went back and retrieved her purse to calm her.
*everything really did come into place in perfect timeing--another article, if i can find it, mentioned how in the past, boats and crew to reach such downed planes, or damaged boats, etc, can take far, far, too long...
this is a very thankful time for these folks... and hopefully a time of prayer-thank-yous, as well...
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jan 17, 2009 - 10:13pm PT
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I've got to say: my notion of pilots was that they are basically bus drivers who make more money and who work less (and I ride RTD from Boulder to Denver every day--got nuthin but love for most bus drivers.) I've changed my opinion on that--live and learn. Props to the pilot and the many others who make air travel--which is an incredible thing--so safe.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jan 17, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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hey there...say, here is the other article i had found...
not sure who is it by... perhaps someone named sara hey ???
entitled: miracle on the hudson...
from her share, she reminds us how this could have turned out... it is indeed a thing to be thankful for, and, as to having the captain that was able to accomplish this part of salvaging an awful situation, along with many others that stepped in QUICKLY--one that came upon them sudden--meaning with no warning for as to prepare, had to take it as it came:
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HERE IS HER ARTICLE:
Yesterday afternoon, we may have experienced a once in a lifetime miracle.
When I saw the news reports of the plane in the water of the Hudson, I noticed some [we didn't know that all escaped] were waiting for rescue, and I thought "right -- it'll take the boats forever to deploy and get out there -- it'll be chaos and bureaucratic confusion and in the meantime, unconscious in half an hour in that temperature."
Boy was I wrong.
What are the odds that a commercial flight could lose both engines, not hit any of the New York buildings, miss the bridge, not flip or break up on crash, but instead be piloted to a relatively smooth landing on the Hudson River?
What are the odds that all -- all 155 -- passengers would get out of the plane alive, with no mortal injuries sustained from the impact, and no drowning, buckled into the seat, as the plane filled with water [one section got out of the front quickly, but the front began filling rapidly with water -- the rest got out from the middle of the plane]?
What are the odds that, rather than slipping under the water from hypothermia -- [remember the scene of drowning and freezing people when a plane went down in the water, and that hero lost his life swimming out to rescue others?] -- all of the passengers would be picked up, beginning 15 minutes from the point of the crash landing? That all the ferries and firemen would hustle on site and do that kind of work so so quickly?
What are the odds that an airline pilot with that kind of skill and experience, as well as immense sense of duty and character, would land that plane, walk the aisles twice while the plane filled to check for remaining passengers, and be the last off the plane, the last off the lifeboat?
Not very much, friends!
We have experienced from afar an airline crash on a river, and all 155 passengers and crew survive, and heroic, speedy, skilled actions from all the players that we know.
We have experienced a miracle.
Believe me, I'm pumped. 155 people get a chance to start anew, to wonder what God has in store for them, and why on earth He allowed them to survive something so usually deadly and devastating.
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END OF ARTICLE....
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hey there, all... say:
many tricky things all came into play, and we all know how many times just one thing can go wrong, and then the whole point of the first phase of trying to save a situation, is then nullified...
dear lord god... thank you that each ensueing step, resulted in this victory... so these folks could home to their loved ones...
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jan 18, 2009 - 09:26am PT
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Now that's, a spot!
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Last night, CBS's 60 Minutes aired the first interview with the crew from flight 1549.
Here's the whole 43 minute show:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4784194n
Alternately, you can click the 4 segments linked on the page.
Good stuff!
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