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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 10, 2009 - 11:59am PT
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All I can say is, I cleanly fired my first post on this thread from bed, but misgraded the extension.
I did repoint my exit from bed today on the second attempt, solo with a sit start, but had a crash pad under me the whole time.
But, since I only feel young on the inside, and that's when I'm NOT climbing, I don't count.
Peace
karl
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 10, 2009 - 01:45pm PT
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I think that boldness comes and goes in waves within regions, so within any region there will be periods during which one bold ascent breeds another -- for a while. Then things quiet down, and old curmugeons with too much time on their gnarled hands start muttering about "no one has balls anymore."
The climbing world extends outside the southwestern US, and there are always insanely bold things being done somewhere.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 10, 2009 - 02:04pm PT
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I don't know, man.
people were more hard core back in the day.
There were a lot more fights at school, drag racing on the streets at night, this is kind of the Age of the Wimp.
Thin necks and big heads for playing video games and surfing the net. Nobody gets out anymore.
This has the effect of making the guys who are hard core look a little bolder compared to the rest of the crowd.
If you have ten time the climbers, then you only need 1 out of ten to be hard core in order to match up with the hardcore population of yesteryear.
Equipment, I don't think it rally makes a difference as from that aspect, things have remained primitive as ever.
A rope, and metal that you attach to the rock.
You would need a meter on someones brain to measure boldness.
Like David Lee Roth says, you can get the same thrill being ten feet off the ground as a pro who is 1000 feet off the ground, just depends on your level.
OK, lets climb, weather looks nice...
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COT
climber
Door Number 3
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Jan 10, 2009 - 02:22pm PT
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"All I can say is, I cleanly fired my first post on this thread from bed, but misgraded the extension.
I did repoint my exit from bed today on the second attempt, solo with a sit start, but had a crash pad under me the whole time.
But, since I only feel young on the inside, and that's when I'm NOT climbing, I don't count."
Karl, that was priceless!!!!!!
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quartziteflight
climber
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Jan 10, 2009 - 02:26pm PT
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bolder and stronger. This is still a silly ass thread.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 10, 2009 - 02:26pm PT
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I have a certain respect for bold but it only goes so far.
Guys taking huge whippers trying to free Eagles Way...Bold.
Yabo soloing at his limit and falling into a tree...self destructive.
Where's the line. How far can you push bold before you reveal yourself as not being healthy to yourself?
Are there folks out there with a death wish and how far should we go to emulate them?
Hard to guess sometimes where bold really is. I've gone out and onsight soloed 1000 foot routes a couple grades below my limit. It was somewhat bold but not suicidal. However, it seems pretty dang impressive if somebody who climbs 3-4 number grades harder than me solos something they have wired 2 grades below their limit. How bold does it feel to them? Don't know cause things change up and down the spectrum.
Peace
Karl
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 10, 2009 - 05:41pm PT
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There are today, and always will be 'bold' climbers. But it's the increasing dilution factor that's remarkable, and the fact that, as a percentage, fewer climbers are 'bold' with each passing day.
In the relatively short span of thrity years, it has devolved to conform with stereotypical societal (and commercial) proxy / 'hero worship' patterns. We hold up the few climbers as representing the 'boldness' of the whole of climbers and climbing while at the very same time imperatively and overwhelmningly striving for 'safer' climbing for the masses at every turn.
That, on one hand we so want climbers and [our] 'climbing' to be identified with the behavior and achievments of that impersonal few, even while deriding as 'out of touch with reality' those who point our typical personal behavior and climbing doesn't remotely resemble or model what we so ardently advertise to the world at large. The 'Emperor's new clothes' hypocrisy and mass denial of it all is breathtaking in scope.
Which is worse? Climbs held hostage by the bold, or climbing sublimated by the meek.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jan 10, 2009 - 08:42pm PT
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Bold is such a state of mind at that moment.....I've personally climbed my best when dumped by a girl friend or didn't give a Phuck about the outcome. Normally I drag my Phat butt up easy .10s but when pissed at the world I lead .10X and even manage an.11 or hang my way up a .12(Dawg is the actual term). Hard is such a "relative" term, there can never be any comparisons between individuals or time frames.
Bold is bold, but it should be proportional to smart...........grades and time frames are insignificant. My boldest climbing was Knott smart, ( I've been lucky for 4 decades).
Bonatti's solo of the north face on the matterhorn was bold and he quit after that.
Bold should be a personal achievement and Knott a standard that other climbers try to emulate.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jan 10, 2009 - 08:47pm PT
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What f*#king world does Joe live in??
It is absolutely mind boggling what these kids are doing today and it's just not in climbing.
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jcques
Trad climber
quebec canada
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Jan 10, 2009 - 09:39pm PT
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"It seems to me that boldness is always relative to current standards of difficulty as measured up against the more or less absolute state of death if you fail.
In objective terms, the boldest climber is the one that climbed with the highest cumulative probability of dying without actually doing so."
First, I think that we must talk about a percentage of people climbing 5.7, 5.9 or 5.11 to compare young in the fifty and young today as more or less bolder. When we compare a climber with and other, we talking about culture, time, and...
Second, I don't think that it is a good measure "the absolute state of death". Nobody, who is sane, climb a route whit a measure of death. I think that a beginner with a 70% chance of doing the route will climb 5.6 and an expert with 70% chance to reach the summit will climb 5.12. So, I think that if you have more knowledge and skill, you will be more bolt.
Finally, I think that the new generation are more people with a very low level of commitment: if they have no bolt, they don't climb or they climb very hard block and cannot climb over 15 meters with a rope.
So, I think that the knowledge of the climber is more superficial than before and, even if some people climb very hard stuff, less people have the knowledge to take calculate risk.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 10, 2009 - 09:50pm PT
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I changed my mind.
A few people are much more bolder than the folks of old.
Speed Climbers.
They did not have that much back then.
That is the factor that tilts the see saw in favor of today's climbers being more bold.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Jan 10, 2009 - 10:36pm PT
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""A few people are much more bolder than the folks of old.""
I don't know... I still wonder if Harding, having to take longer, be more inventive, do more work, and really not know if the theories and methods were sound... and having no reference point of anyone doing anything similar... is more bold to me, I think. Even a mind boggling solo from Potter is just a harder version of a thing that Croft did before, you know?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 11, 2009 - 12:50am PT
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Bob "What f*#king world does Joe live in??"
Preferably any world you're not currently marketing yourself and or one of your books in as small and limited a world that might be.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Jan 11, 2009 - 12:52am PT
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Karl,
From your post it could be inferred that Yabo had a death wish. I never believed this to be the case. He did some crazy arse shite but not because he wished to die; he did it because his mind told him he could. Was he out of his mind? That was entirely possible a vast majority of the time!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 11, 2009 - 01:29am PT
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"Karl,
From your post it could be inferred that Yabo had a death wish. I never believed this to be the case. He did some crazy arse shite but not because he wished to die; he did it because his mind told him he could. Was he out of his mind? That was entirely possible a vast majority of the time!"
It's probably true that nobody has a death wish all the time but when I met Yabo he has just beaten himself to a pulp, and he did kill himself after all. If he didn't have a self-destructive streak, nobody does
peace
Karl
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 11, 2009 - 02:35am PT
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I checked out that Yabo landing spot up on the ridge when he jumped out of the murder wagon, he had it all planned out there is a trail down there where people hang out.
I changed my mind, the older climbers were more bold because they were baked all the time and had bad equipment.
420 Climbing is horrific.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jan 11, 2009 - 11:51am PT
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Joe wrote: Preferably any world you're not currently marketing yourself and or one of your books in as small and limited a world that might be.
Your constant criticisms of newer climbers and climbing is just a reflection on you being a never-was-been. You have done nothing for the sport except whine like a little baby.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jan 11, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
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Dr rock...folks like Kor and Roper were into speed ascents 50 years ago.... Roper was doing the arches car to car in under an hour and Kor did the first ascent of golden wall( I think) in a day and a half.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 11, 2009 - 02:44pm PT
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Speaking of speed climbing, we started a re-hab group after people started losing there teeth called "Climbers on Crank."
Basically we just switched everybody over to The Chronic.
Tell your friends, Jaz music is on the air, Spliff Skankin 3 to 7 every Sunday nite.
Jaz Music is Reggae Music, ......all styles,....... all formats, .......89.7 KFJC.
We begin this broadcast as always, with a performance from Bob Marley and the Wailers, from somewhere during his world wide journeys...
And judging by the clock on the wall, it's that time, that dread, dread time, you know, that time where we at KFJC like to take a pause, it's a pause for the cause, a pause to refresh, and we invite you to do so yourself, and we do hope that you have your refreshments ready.
or online at http://www.kfjc.org/netcast/
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 12, 2009 - 01:57am PT
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Bob: "Your constant criticisms of newer climbers and climbing is just a reflection on you being a never-was-been. You have done nothing for the sport except whine like a little baby."
I don't criticize newer climbers - I criticize what climbing has become as it has become domesticated into suburban society and the continous cost to rock that has entailed. The fact you see no downsides at all in your relentless commercial promotion of climbing comes as no surprise whatsoever.
As for what I've done for the sport? No argument there, I've simply done what I've always done: climb.
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