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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 4, 2008 - 10:00am PT
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I have been climbing on St Helena at the Far Side and the Quarry, but what about the Palisades? There's a ton of rock south of the highway there near Table Rock and I thought I had read somewhere that someone had put up routes. I can't seem to find any info about the area...anyone know anything?
This is the area I speak of: http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock/380683/palisades-napa-valley-.html
If it's a secret I understand, you can also email me at onetreepc at msn.com if you don't want to post such info online...
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
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Email Roughster, he'll fill you in. There's routes and a guide and all that.
The place is no secret, but I gotta warn you... Even the choss thinks that choss is chossy.
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drunkenmaster
Social climber
santa rosa
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the climbs on the bubble and the bear cliffs on mt st helena are way better than anything at table rock or the palisades - i would suggest climbing on those before hiking all the way out there - it may look good from far but it is far from good - can you say CHOSS.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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As mentioned above, the rock is choss, there is no denying that, but it does clean up, and presents some of the longest sport routes in the bay area. To say that uniformly the Bubble or Far Side (lol) are better in any capacity is a statement of ignorance as to what is out there.
Is it the second coming? Hell no. Is it an area with its own cool vibe, chossy funky rock that only a mother could love? Probably. Is it better than most of the Bay sport climbing venues? Yes. Can you get more than 25 feet off the ground? Yes, it is the only area with true multipitch sport climbing in the Bay.
It has a steep 2 mile approach with significant uphill sections both hiking in and out that will weed out the riff raff and always keep the crowds down. The few that make it out will then have to deal with chossy rock. All in all, my guess is even if I put the topo online it would never be crowded since TR'ing is pretty much non-existent, except for rapping in off the rim for the top pitches of a few of the mulitpitch routes.
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 4, 2008 - 01:51pm PT
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Hey Roughster could you email me the beta if I promise to keep it off the net? I only climb 5.9 but I'm interested in exploring the area more, I love the history of the place and want to explore some of the more secluded and difficult to reach places...Maybe you should publish the info if what you say is true, long difficult approaches to choss like this turn many people away and act as natural deterrents. It's not necessarily a secret anymore either, hell I found out about it...The beta may help legitimize the place and also aid in the safety of future climbers...
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berghold
Trad climber
Calistoga
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Agree DMT. Roughster has contributed greatly to this area with his efforts. That said, the best offering in the vast reaches of the Palisades for rockclimbing IS at Table, IMO. All the other steep cliffs out there to the south are nice to look at, hike around, traverse, etc. but rockclimbing ? not so much. A great 10+ mile endurance hike with incredible views, exposure, etc. goes across the upper ridge of the Palisades from Oat Hill Mine Trail to Mt. St. Helena parking lot. This adventure takes a line above the regular palisades trail, across the top of the cliffs (no trail), some third class, some bushwhacking, and plenty of route finding challenges. Have fun!
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Rock climbing at the Napa Palisades is akin to drinking non alcoholic beer at Oktoberfest
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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I appreciate the comments guys. I can’t take all credit though, particularly Auburn and DTSA. Those areas were joint efforts primarily with Dave (CaughtInside) for Auburn and Dave and Doniel for DTSA.
The DTSA topo I have been giving out on occasion with nicely solicited emails or attendance at local Adopt-a-crag events or CRAGS meeting (Friday at 7PM and Pipeworks in Sacramento). I just am hoping to keep the peace and let it slowly seep into the NorCal climbing consciousness. It will never be world class, but I do honestly feel that with Auburn still off limits, its one of the best areas around. Just my opinion, as you know, they often vary :D
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
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I'd have to agree with Rough. The place is a total chossball, but what in the Bay Area isn't that's taller than 30ft? The place is unique for sure. The closest thing to it would be Pinnacles which has about the same amount of choss. It's a great place to find a good adventure (which isn't exactly easy at a sport venue) and on vertical 200+ft walls... That's right, 200 (plus) ft.
Traffic is what this place needs, so do your part, hike your lazy ass out there and help clean the loose crap off the routes. When it breaks off, just toss it down and find another hold, "It's no drama".
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Some pics and words for what awaits you:
There are some big walls out here. Look closer you will save Dave on P3 of Aloha Patrol 5.11b. Would be 5 star at any crag in the USA.
From the side. Notice the steepness. This climb goes, slab, overhang, slab (P1). Slab (p2). Killer overhang (p3). Vert to slightly overhang (p4). (Of course sport pitches aka you can rap all pitches with one rope from anchor to anchor).
You want more?
Bolting Daily Dose 5.12d on lead. I mean come one, how bad can the rock be if I bolted it on lead?
Higher up on the route. The bulge in the bottom right is the overhang in the picture above. Not too bad of a "view" eh?
Communal second pitch (5.10b) leading to several harder 3rd pitches. Pretty sweet looking eh? It gets better...
Starting Pitch 3 of the "Moderator" 5.11a. Heheh, if you know me, you know where the name comes from. The next weekend I bolted a climb that I briefly entertained thought of calling "RC.Commie" hehe. I settled on "Internet Super Hero" instead :)
Want to see what it looks like near the top?
Yeah it really is that bitchin.
50 routes total from 5.7 to 5.13a so far. Potential for TONS of more routes. You just need a strong constitution for the hike, a strong mind to not be wigged by the rock, and a habit for seeking adventure as Salamanizer says.
Once your done with some of the well bolted stuff, try his Lux Lucis of Vallum 5.10d. Its the obvious dihedral. He pulled some of the old aid bolts out by hand :)
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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I remember Roper mentioning putting up routes here, hideous, rotten aid climbs. He referred to the area as St Helena Palisades.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Eric,
There are plenty of chossy aid climbs out there. Most them easily went free. I personally pulled every other bolt on one of them and then freed it. We replaced some crazy stuff out there with solid 1/2''ers.
Here's some Chad pulled out:
Might as well let the cat's head peak out...
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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actually the bubble and far side are not the best areas over on that side of the road. Bear Wall is IT. Plus there are some other rocks higher up check the guidebook..you will find some new really killer routes put up by Berghold.
Be sure you've had all the children you want , carry life and disability to cover the mortgage if you climb over at Table.
PS wear a helmet.. that's you the belayer wear a helmet..bring some glue. you may have to replace some things.
I was there today, btw.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Nice M!
One thing to note though, most routes at Table have literally had a handful of ascents. As with choss piles bolted across this great land, choss takes more than few ascents to clean up. If we moved Table Rock to SoCal, it would be polished to a hi-pro-glow in a season.
It is part of the lessons learned of seasoned climbers as opposed to those who think the outside is just a slightly more wild iteration of the gym. IT isn't.
Sure I could have bolted on the "left" side of the (29), but why? There are already others doing that. Why not try something new? Make a new contribution, give people somewhere else to go.
Table is what it is. It has been expressly stated up front, it is not for everyone. To state (not just imply) it is more unsafe then most others areas is simply not true. Different? Yes. Unsafe, nah.
Have you been up Mark's Moderate on the Bear? You want to compare that to routes on Table? I'll take Table Rock over that route 10 out of 10 :D
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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I liked the concept of letting it "slowly seep into the NorCal climbing consciousness." So much for that.
Eric Beck: So Roper put routes up there? Interesting. Could you find out what he climbed, and when? I've been trying to find information about those routes. The history seems a bit lost, aside from what's left of the old fixed gear.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Jerry,
I think the seepage dried up about a year ago. Considering ST is a pretty select group in the whole scope of things, I still think of this as releasing the info to those who would be most likely to actually go out there and understand the place.
I have always wanted to get the info out there, it was more of a matter of time as opposed to an "if" for me. Whats the point of letting the steel sit in the wall if no one is using it?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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ok, i got my copy downloaded. you can pull it now. ;)
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Munge,
Send me an email, I'll send you the whole thing :)
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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No worries Aron. Like you said, it is what it is. I need to head back out there and climb more of your lines.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Hey Aron, Thanks for all the hard work, just like at Auburn. I will email you. Did you leave any of the old bolts in for "historical" viewing?
Jeff
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Jeff,
Yeah we left the older stuff if it was solid, and some of it is. Aloha Patrol has a sequence on the 3rd pitch where every other bolt is the old 1/4"s, but hey are bomber. We left quite a few pins in the cracks, hopefully people wont go gaga and start pulling all of them out.
Once you get the guide, check out the following routes for some historical gear:
Aloha Patrol
Drive By
Spy Versus Spy
If you wander the base of the cliff and keep a sharp eye out, you'll see several older anchors/odd bolt here and there.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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New routes on the north side of the road, routes on the south side... how about one guide book for the area? publish it summitstyle but with photos..dodrill photos...it's got history too. hmm ( get the local climbing club to pay for it)
inanycase, nice work out there Aaron, I agree with you about letting it get fully established
M
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2008 - 01:25pm PT
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I would buy a book for the area if it was available...
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Hmm.....sometimes even a NA beer can hit the spot, not bad Aaron-
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Wow email explosion. I'm getting them sent out guys :)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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I'll ping you later Rough, but would love to go out there and check out any moderates that i could scratch my way up.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Munge:
There are currently 15 route 5.10 or under. One of them is a multipitch (Captain Choss 5.10d)
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Roper sent me the following:
Like many old folk, I don't do threads and blogs. But,
yes, I did some paltry routes in the SH Palisades with my dad in 1955 and 56.
Then, around 1961, Sacherer and I did a horrendous aid route on Table Rock,
far left side of the north face. It zigged and zagged a bit, so we called it
"Z." Had we been smarter we would have called it "ZZZZZ." I believe I have a
30-second VHS of this, given by the third man, our "cameraman" Howard Bradley.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Wow. Now THAT is crazy! I'd love to see that footage. There was a guy named George who apparently climbed a bunch of lines on the cliff. Not sure what, or when. He lived on the property just below the crag for a number of years.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Roughster, is there a route on the arete in the lower left corner of the first pic you posted? Very striking arete.
edit... to include referenced pic...
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Yes there are two routes that revolve around that arete both are 12as. One is standard arete fair, the other goes up the shared overhang below then traverses left onto a steep face on the inside of the face that you can't see from the pic.
One way to immediately identify where the routes are out there are look for the ever present "whitish" scars. The rock often has a very light patina surface that is paper thin and breaks off with any weight/force.
Both routes share a steeper juggy start:
Grape Vine goes left to the steep face around the corner:
Grave Juice goes straight up there arete to the apex:
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 20, 2008 - 02:39am PT
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I remember doing some routes in the Palisades with Roper in the early 60's. We made up these crazy bolt hangers out of old license plates!
A short lived adventure into making hardware. We borrowed some ginormnous Eucalyptus stumps from the golf range in Tilden Park for our "anvil", and set up shop in Ropers backyard.
Not one of the most intelligent things we ever did. Then again not one of the dumbest.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 20, 2008 - 02:44pm PT
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^^ Nice! ^^
I was at Sterling Vineyards this fall. Impressive cable car, tour and winetasting setup - completely unimpressive wines. Really not up to snuff with the rest of the valley.
I pointed up to the Palisades and asked buddy if he knew anything about the crag, and did people climb on it. He told me the rock was loose and crappy - so even the local non-climbers know!
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Dec 20, 2008 - 03:56pm PT
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The more I see the less I psyche. Like Sterling wines, just not up to snuff. I suspect there is a reason that this place never became popular even after decades of activity....mediocrity
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Dec 21, 2008 - 01:58am PT
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License Plate bolt hangers?! Yikes!!!111 The cliff sure wasn't over-looked by locals. Its just that after a fifty minute hike we'd see Roper's old bolts hanging half way out of the dirt and have to wonder, wtf?
From Marc Jensen's Climbing in the S.F. Bay Region, 1988:
"The rock (Bubble Rock, Mt. St. Helena) is a volcanic conglomerate with a hard surface layer that allows climbing. If this outer layer is missing, the rock is as strong as cottage cheese...
On the ridges running North and South of Mt. St. Helena are cliffs up to 300 feet high. The rock quality is rumored to be extremely poor. A few routes have been done and there is the possibility of free climbing. There are stories though of entire sections of a route disintegrating under body weight. Some of the cliffs appear to be on private land."
Pretty enticing, eh? Bubble Rock is bit better than what Marc described. Perhaps the new routes at Table Rock will see enough traffic to get worn in too.
On a side note, does anyone have the October 1985 Climbing Magazine? Basecamp apparently had an article about Goat Rock I'd like to see.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Dec 21, 2008 - 02:52am PT
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Climbing history is full of examples where locals/others have scoffed at new areas proclaiming them to be choss and never would amount to anything.
The cool thing about this scenario is the rock IS choss, haha, no one is denying that, but whether or not this place will turn into something special remains to be seen IMO. Multi-pitch sport climbing within 100 miles of the city is bound to draw a few curious look-i-lous. As Jerry mentions above, I don't think it is beyond reason to think that eventually the routes won't work themselves into shape.
If not? Eh, that wouldn't be the end of the world either, as CI mentioned in a previous post, there has been a small group of people who have known about it for quite awhile now and they have somehow managed to overcome their initial Choss-Shock and now enjoy the area just fine.
Let me save anyone reading this some time: If you truly don't like choss, don't bother with the hike out. No, seriously. You will be wigged out by the 3rd bolt of your 1st climb. Expect to wipe significant amount of dirt off of your shoes at the belays/after lower offs. Expect to have holds crumble on you (that's just an indication that your not using the right ones anyways :P ). Expect to have to grovel and you just may be pleasantly surprised.
If you go out here thinking this is anything other than a long term work in progress, the joke is on you.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
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Dec 21, 2008 - 03:13am PT
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^^^^^^^^^
Ha Ha!!!... Really though, it's no worse than Pinnacles, and people love that crap.
Anyway, I have several of those "Roper" bolt hangers. I'd post a pic but don't have one anymore. Aaron posted a pic a while back on this thread "I think" though. I pulled some of those by hand, scary little things. Those hangers belong in a museium. Amazing ya'll lived to tell the story.
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Dec 21, 2008 - 04:49am PT
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No worse than pinnicles? Come on Sal, keep sellin' but I have a prediction, Palisades = obscurity and cob webs
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Dec 21, 2008 - 12:01pm PT
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DK: What is invariable the 1st few complaint from Bay Areas climbers about local stuff:
 Anything truly "local" is short. Really short usually. We have our exceptions but most of those are outside of what most people consider truly "local". Many of the currently single pitch routes (which potential for upper pitches) are rope stretchers with a 60M barely getting you down.
There is no "real" sport climbing area. No, I didn't say there wasn't sport climbing locally, I said sport climbing area aka an area that was developed with sport in mind. Not 2 bolt 40 foot routes. Not that some areas don't have isolated pockets of good sport climbing (Bear Cliff, Mickey's, Bear Gulch, etc..) but when you think, "I'm going sport climbing today" in the Bay Area that means driving to Sonora (until Auburn opens up at least :P ) Table has been 100% sport climbing from the get go. Mostly 1/2" bolts, reasonably spaced, threadable anchors.
Multi-pitch sport climbing. There just isn't any. Not just local, but pretty much most of California is lacking a true sport climbing multi-pitch area. Table does offer that. With both easy base and top access, it is pretty ideal for it. The rock is ultrafeatured so even steep routes often go at a reasonable grade. Many different walls have multipitch potential so it won't be an isolated route here and there either. I would expect the majority the routes to have 2nd, 3rd, and some 4th or 5th even.
Finally, its the Napa Valley. Could you ask for a more scenic area? After we were done developing out there, we would stop by LaPrima at the bottom and get a BBQ Chicken Pizza and a pitcher of beer. Several times we sat on the balcony scarfing down good food/drink reminiscing over the days events all in an amazing setting. What's to complain about that?
If choss avoidance is enough to justify driving an extra 100 miles to the other "sport" climbing areas, feel free. Nothing wrong with it. Hell, I used to drive 4 hours each way to Natural Bridges when I was putting up routes out there.
But wont it be nice to know there is a true local option? IMO it is what is the big selling point of the area. Then to think about being on track with getting Auburn open puts East Bay'ers 70 miles in either direction to a killer sport climbing area.
Between Auburn and DTSA there are over 100 sport routes that most people in the Bay don't even know about with both areas have a lot of additional potential.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Dec 23, 2008 - 02:00am PT
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St Helena Palisades 1960-61
Could only find one photo from the "Archives of Antiquity" of climbing in this area. Probably a first ascent as few people were crazy enough to play on this fabulous rock, let alone repeat a route. I am leading, Roper is belaying and Foott is messing about.
I know it is Roper from his classic red sweater tied to his waist. Anyone have any clue what route this is?
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Dec 23, 2008 - 02:09am PT
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From the looks of it, that route is on the backside of the formation and has some sweet runnels/chutes across a wall about 100 feet long and 80-90 ' tall. I have looked at it for awhile but have devoted attention to other areas since it is kind of by itself down the hill half way then a scramble up a gully. Or you can start at the top and go around the back to the South and follow slabby gullies to the base then circle back to the West where the wall will be on your right.
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berghold
Trad climber
Calistoga
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Dec 23, 2008 - 01:11pm PT
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Thanks Guido for the great historical reference, though I'm not sure this will excite the sport-climbers still on the fence!
This photo reminded me a "universal theory" Will Gadd wrote about in recent R&I issue #173:
"The quality and size of the rocks below a mountain face are inversely proportional to the quality of the stone. For example,there's a very limited debris field below El Cap, and the boulders tend to be quite large."
There's a fairly large debris field beneath Table Rock, you just can't see it because there's grass growing out of it!
Ha ha, by the way, friendly reminder: I've had fun climbing Roughster's routes around the corner.
Also when comparing rock type to Pinnacles. . . Think obscure west-side machete ridge, balconies, etc. NOT east-side discovery wall or monolith which has lots of fairly smooth- textured rock/holds compared to Table's grit.
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Sep 11, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
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bump for Bay area multipitch :)
guido- that pic is awesome. I started soloing some of that stuff one day, then thought better of it and downclimbed.
great views anywhere out there and climbing is climbing, eh. ;)
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Sep 11, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
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a few decades ago a local trogladite took me up one of the palisades climbs.
He had carved holes in the rock for cams and had placed bolts like 6 inches long because the rock was so soft. He said Harding tested his BAT tent/ledge on those cliffs.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2018 - 08:42am PT
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Bump for more NorCal leakage....
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Apr 24, 2018 - 09:15am PT
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Crappy, death bolts in choss? Perfect combination!
That rock looks almost like welded tuff, the same kind at Smith Rock, and look how it turned into a world destination! But then Smith has 600 foot walls, lots of sport routes, AND trad!
I declare that Napa Palisades will NEVER be in the same league as Smith. Of course, Smith does not have that Napa Valley wine feel, but then there's Deschutes River Brewery, to name only one of many in the Bend/Redmond area, near the Smith Rock State park.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Apr 24, 2018 - 03:47pm PT
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Did my first "roped climb" on St. Helena Palisades just off the Oat Hill Mine Rd., back at about 18 and just having read a lot of Rebuffat and his ilk. i showed my younger brother how to hip belay a top rope with a piece of half-inch hemp from the hardware store. Somehow survived that, and went back a year or so later and got up a little spire near there. When I later discovered granite it was like discovering heaven.
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Apr 24, 2018 - 05:40pm PT
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Awesome fossil climber.
a super top secret hand written guide by Roper is in existence. Some of us deranged locals have been scheming to repeat some of the horror routes, document fixed gear, scare ourselves silly, then get a mtn bike descent down oat hill mine trail.
It keeps getting pushed off for some reason. ;)
Thornburg put up a sweet looking 12c at table a few years ago.
jim on the opposite side of the lens, photo Samuel Crossley
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 24, 2018 - 08:36pm PT
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Circa 60-61, last photo I posted on here was via PhotoF*#kit so here it tis again.
Guido leading, Roper belaying and Jeff Foott over smashing rocks with his piton hammer. Roper and I worked on a Guide for the area but I "loaned" it to Harrison years ago.........
Those crazy license plate hangers were one of our many crazy endeavors to save money and make our own gear.
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Fuzzywuzzy
climber
suspendedhappynation
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Apr 24, 2018 - 11:09pm PT
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Holy Sh#t Dr Woo where do you get this stuff?/
Remarkable. Historic. Hilarious!!!
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