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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Todd - I always appreciate your cool head and mellow approach to all things...
You are a champ.
I will try to learn, but still I am worked up by these things...
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Dwain
Trad climber
Apple Valley, California
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"Remember that time that well known climber guy lit the blob on fire on new years eve by pouring white gas down the face?"
I don't remember the Blob, Steve, but I remember
when some Alien Life Force lit up Pinched RIB
on New Years in the late 80s.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Pulling me over for going the wrong way on a one way when it is the only way to pull out of my camp site is not what I would call enforcing the law...
Jeez. Now I am getting emails about this from avatars..
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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InsideNPS > Parks > Joshua Tree National Park
Follow-up on Convictions
By Curt Sauer, Acting Superintendent
May 16, 2003
The Morning Report contained two earlier articles earlier this spring concerning an incident in which two visitors caused the exploding of white gas on a rock formation and then ignited it. Citations were issued, convictions obtained, and sentencing imposed. The following is a correction/retraction. The earlier articles shall be deleted and any recipients of the earlier articles are directed to dispose of them: Two visitors, Jonathan Thesanga and Erin Whorton, were cited for a violation of 36 CFR 2.13 (a) (5), fires lighted or smoldering material being discarded in a manner to create a public hazard, and not arson or vandalism of natural resources as erroneously reported in an earlier item for igniting white gas on a rock formation in Hidden Valley Campground on New Years Eve. Joshua Tree National Park has historically been a popular gathering spot for outdoor enthusiasts during Christmas and New Years holidays. During the 2002 holiday, all park campgrounds and facilities were full. While patrolling the Hidden Valley campground after dark on New Years Eve, rangers Tim Bertrand and Scott Fischer saw two people on a rock formation above the campground. After hearing the distinctive sound of a tin white gas container hitting the rock, they observed a large fire erupt on the face of the formation. The rangers apprehended them as they climbed down the back of the formation. They were subsequently identified as Jonathan Thesenga and Erin Whorton. Both were cited for violation of 36 CFR 2.13 (a) (5), a misdemeanor petty offense. On April 4th, Thesenga and Whorton appeared in federal court and each plead guilty. Thesenga was sentenced to five years unsupervised probation, banned from entering the park for five years, and ordered to pay a $1,000 fine. Thesenga’s legal counsel advised in correspondence to the National Park Service that his client "takes full responsibility for his actions and accepts the punishment" and that his client "has been and continues to be profoundly remorseful for the incident." Whorton apologized to the court and the park staff present for her actions, and was sentenced to a $500 fine, three years’ unsupervised probation, and banned from entering the park for a period for three years.
There's the text from that link didn't realize it wouldn't work like i had planned!
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salad
climber
Escondido
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'I just saw the climber coffee is at 8am. Too early. '
thats funny happie, i was thinking way to late. who can hold ouy until 8am for coffee? my god the horror.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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For the record…
I have been a regular visitor at Joshua Tree Nat Monument and Park since the early 1980’s (before then I lived in NYC and was relegated to seasonal climbing back east.)
During this span of 25 or so years, I have had a lot of interaction with Park Rangers. I have worked with them to rescue injured climbers. They have helped me when all the stuff in my campsite was moved to the nearest dumpster by poachers. There have been other incidents as well. I count several past and current Rangers as among my friends.
One of these gentlemen emailed me last night and suggested (based on my comments in this thread) that I am paranoid, that no Ranger is out to get me. I will take his cue, and quit the negative posts about Rangers. Rangering is a tough job, but someone has to do it, and I would be lousy at it… I apologize if I have offended.
If I am around at coffee time count me in. I’ll be the one with the biggest smile…
Yeah sure, I have been pulled over a few times in Josh but it has never amounted to anything. Never got a ticket. Always polite. Anyway no one is perfect – especially me…
Of course the coin does have two sides. Some heavy handed tactics have been used in the past. The lockdown of HVCC at New Years 2002 comes to mind. Hopefully those days are behind us…
Cheers,
Kris
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TYeary
Mountain climber
Calif.
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Well said, Todd.
I have a very warm spot for the "old days". Josh was lonely then too, just in a better way. Kris, point well taken. I have had a similar expeirence. I just take it hand in hand with the times. I look back at those coffee mornings with fondness. I guess I was too involved with "being there" and the climbing to let a little BS ruin my day. Agreed, things have become a bit more draconian now, but I still go.
Tony
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BET Jerk from RC dot Com
climber
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Hey Happie, what campsite you staying at?
Oh, I like mah coffee black, strong, and hot (marnin yinz!). And I lost my favorite mug, so please have a klean one waiting for me. 7:30 sound good? Grate, see you then.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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If I'm sleeping on the ground, in the short days of winter, and someone else has it ready and warm, 8a.m. is an okay time for coffee. Otherwise I will sleep later (project permitting) and grind my own Peets™.
The only tool who ever hassled me, in a National Park like setting, was Col Sanders @ Deto in '76.
Over the years, we were able to work beyond that.
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BET Jerk from RC dot Com
climber
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Yeah, me too. I usually don’t get out of the sack until 10:30 or 11:00.. unless nature calls, if you know what I mean. The ole bladder just ain’t what she used to be. I’ll head to town for some coffee and a bran muffin, hit up the WiFi and see if any of my old cronies are reminiscing of the halcyon days on SuperTopo. Drop a bit of spray about how hard I used to pull down, maybe coddle some n00b. Then it’s all engines go, after the bran muffin kicks in and I hit the flush toilets… then straight to the proj by 3:00, have a go or two, and call it day.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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BET you know me too well.
;)
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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I dunno, by 3 the sun be getting in your eyes...
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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"Have you ever tried to be cool and talk to any of them? They are not your enemy. You are your own worst enemy."
Yes, I've talked with several. Some of the ones that seemed very reasonable for years completely tooled out later on.
Jimmy for example tooled out regarding behavior at New Years, popping out of rocks from the back of our campsite "casually". He's also the fellow who was talking whistfully about pulling over people for driving at the speed limit.
A different, and very nice, ranger was the one who tromped nearly a mile to try and bust us for illegal guiding on a hunch (we were not guiding, or doing anything else illegal).
The agro fat ranger at the intersection rock incident kept spewing lies (funny ones) about being a climber, and saying how rude he found it when people shined lights on him when he climbed in the dark (WTF?). Hard to have a civil conversation with an agro dude who keeps making blatent lies.
So yes, I've talked with them, and often it is the nice ones that turn out to be the worst tools. Part of their schtick to be overly nice to get info I guess?
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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"The agro fat ranger at the intersection rock incident kept spewing lies (funny ones) about being a climber, and saying how rude he found it when people shined lights on him when he climbed in the dark (WTF?). Hard to have a civil conversation with an agro dude who keeps making blatent lies."
What did he lie about?
And Jimmy is a cool dude, a very honest man, he would never pull someone over for going the speed limit (as long as they weren't weaving). I bet if we heard the whole conversation, it would have been obvious he was trying to make a joke. saying things like this really make you sound like a tool.
And as for the illegal guiding thing, maybe someone reported that you were illegally guiding, he had to check into it, he was nice about you say. So whats the deal man? rangers cant be aggro, they cant be friendly, the cant crack a joke? what should they do?
WTF?
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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S.Powers,
All rangers must be angels, just my fault I witnessed schister behavior...
Yes, Jimmy mostly strikes me as a very nice, reasonable guy. He has some odd social skills, some of which is him trying (and failing) to apply whatever psychobabble he got during training. Hard to say without knowing him off the clock. But, it doesn't change the fact that I've seen him flip a switch and totally tool out.
In the case in question he was clearly targetting our site (yes we had folks who's faces they know frequenting our site), and at the time he popped out of the boulders and tried to casually strike up a conversation he got the 3 tea-totallers of the group hanging at the fire ring in our post lunch stupor (just food coma). We found it very odd and basically only responded with yes/no, as we really don't like chatting with creaps that sneak up from behind us from the rocks, no matter who gave the wierdo a shiny piece of metal for hsi jacket. So as he is clearly struggling to keep things going, he switches to talking about booze (probably hoping to pump for information about possible kegs on intersection rock). So as his one sided conversation sputtered along, he drops the comment about wanting to pull over anyone who is driving at or below the limit that night, as surely they'll be DUI. We had to complete a sentence at that point, and reminded him that his proposed action was illegal and unconstitutional. It did not phase him. I'm convinced that most cops, rangers, and politicians have never read the constitution, or at the best only skimmed the "good" parts.
As for agro fatso "climber" ranger dude, if you weren't there that night, you'd never believe the story. It was either 2004 or 2005, my memory fails me. Keystone cops would have been jealous of the circus show. The agro cop outright denied the climbers were witht he rangers, and constantly claimed they would be dealt with. It was one of the many lies. We just had fun with our stashed spot lights making agro dude go all Dukes of Hazard around the place trying to finger who was illuminating the rock... My favorite bit was my friend WS (aka TP) who snuck over and sat on a curb and leaned against a rock. Rangerette almost tripped on him and realy freaked, but as he was simply sitting against a rock next to the parking lot his actions were not illegal or threatening. I can't do justice to the conversation, but her chain was duly yanked.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
the campfire just a ways past Chris' Taco stand
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Classic story, Locker... or is that: Classic Locker story?
Anyway, I guess this guy didn't like his ticket:
HowToGetJailTimeForASpeedingTicket:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoEKcPdvg6A
Probably felt good for about 8 seconds. :-)
Fletch
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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"All rangers must be angels, just my fault I witnessed schister behavior..."
No, your just another paranoid guy thats out of touch with reality, Im done talking to you, you didnt answer my questions and are obviously just a troll or an utter moron.
I firmly belive you are a tool, a firm one at that!
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Steve has a lot of experience with firm tools!
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