Limits to Free Climbing in Yosemite

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Messages 101 - 120 of total 121 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 2, 2018 - 09:02pm PT
Just thought you'd be mounting yer heforshe steed and charging into battle, tut.

Slabs eliminate the finger/hand size issue in a way, but small holds favor small people...

Reaches only compensate occasionally
xCon

Social climber
909
Jan 2, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
there was a pic in the mags of a 14b slab on slate back in the 90's

eventually meltdowns will be comfirmed as a 15 if it remains unaltered
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Jan 2, 2018 - 09:06pm PT
No worries, Ed. Just curious and it certainly would pertain I would think.

Just thought you'd be mounting yer heforshe steed and charging into battle, tut.

Slabs eliminate the finger/hand size issue in a way, but small holds favor small people...

Reaches only compensate occasionally

Hell no, dude. I am tall, big and have big hands/fingers...been crying about cheater wimins with small hands/fingers for 30 years. :P

And that my friend is why the hardest route in the world will eventually be put up by a woman, imo. Eventually the small finger size will outclass any power advantage a man may have.

And don't say it don't count, cause it sure as sh#t does. Hard climbing is about small holds.


clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jan 2, 2018 - 09:16pm PT

A route on small features, climbed by a woman, unrepeated by a man. I think it's a possibility.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 2, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
Whose side are you guys on?

There you go grrrls

Start crimpin' and watch those big lunks flail!

I got a name for the face route that no man can do -

"Microagressions"
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 2, 2018 - 09:36pm PT
Man Cave

I like it

Or how bout

"T Time"
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jan 2, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
It may be that size matters after all.
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Jan 2, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
The Snowflake Zone
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jan 2, 2018 - 10:28pm PT
https://gripped.com/news/lonnie-kauks-second-ascent-magic-line-5-14b-yosemite/ (January 2017)

Regarding grade extrapolation - grades are inherently subjective and ordinal rather than cardinal, so I would not expect them to scale in a predictable way.
Grade progressions happen every once in awhile when a dominant climber or two declare that the hardest climb is a lot harder than prior climbs and needs a new upper grade.
Also, there are so few climbs at the higher grades that we don't have any "law of large numbers" (like we would get on an average), so that adds to the variance as well.
xCon

Social climber
909
Jan 2, 2018 - 10:53pm PT
bouldering grades have all but frozen

that tale of two worlds really did them in...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 3, 2018 - 05:50am PT
The proverbial brick wall of physics in biology illustrated in a more objectively evaluated pursuit...

Men's running mile time record progression...
Men's running mile time record progression...
Credit: healyje

and ...

Limits of endurance as marathon stars run out of time
WBraun

climber
Jan 3, 2018 - 06:29am PT
There are no limits to the living entity except ignorance of its own conscious self.

Want to run faster just become a Cheetah in your next life.

Then you can run faster, and waste your time going nowhere again around the wheel ......
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Jan 3, 2018 - 10:38am PT
Regarding grade extrapolation - grades are inherently subjective and ordinal rather than cardinal, so I would not expect them to scale in a predictable way.

Absolutely right, ser.

Climbing is ultimately the ultimate subjective sport. Ratings are just used to burn off ur bros etc or at most provide a loose guide...

If Beth Rodden has to edge that nub she has to support maybe 100# on it, to do the same route I have to support 200#....wimins cheat!

:P
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 3, 2018 - 04:40pm PT
In a popular bouldering area it might make more sense to "grade" each problem by simply counting the number of climbers who are successful on it.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jan 3, 2018 - 04:43pm PT
Maybe someday "robo-climber" will be built. A human figure with hands and feet, but with greater lock off and pull up strength than a human. Then he can be programmed with algorithms to measure grades.
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Jan 3, 2018 - 04:57pm PT
We can each of us get some idea of how hard a climb is by trying to do it.

Trying to compare difficulty across climbers, I like John Gill's suggestion. Given enough climbers you just count the number of successes. For the truly hard climbs it will likely be reported when someone succeeds.

For lesser stuff the grapevine can work as long as there are enough climbers in the arena. After you get enough info then you can debate why some succeed and others don't. Or you can go ahead and just debate.
Pete_N

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Jan 7, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
<In a popular bouldering area it might make more sense to "grade" each problem by simply counting the number of climbers who are successful on it.>

I like John's suggestion; it seems the best way yet to quantify the difficulty semi-objectively (emphasis on 'semi-').

In a similar vein, one might be able to compare the number of routes at each grade in successive guidebooks for an established area to model the progression of 'hard' climbing. I don't have the library of old guidebooks necessary, but I bet some of you do! What's the frequency distribution of 5.7-5.hardest in every Yosemite guide? Presumably, the median grade is going to shift right over the years, but rate at which it does so may have some predictive value.

It may be more interesting to compare grade frequency distributions among multiple climbing venues; this is probably more of a function of geomorphology though than local climbing ability.

I know there are a host of problems with the approach, but it's fun to consider.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2018 - 10:46pm PT
I don't have the library of old guidebooks necessary, but I bet some of you do!

here you go:
http://www.edhartouni.net/uploads/5/7/0/9/57096631/yosemitevalleyclimbs.xls
have at it!
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Jan 7, 2018 - 10:50pm PT
Hasn't John Gill's original B1, B2, B3 bouldering grading system got to do with number of repeats, at least as far as B3 is concerned? B3 would be on ascent with no repeats? I seem to remember when B1s were rated as approximately V4, which would be 5.12a YDS (if you want to compare bouldering with free-climbing). Bet John could be a lot more precise.
Pete_N

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Jan 8, 2018 - 02:49am PT
have at it!

Yikes. Be careful what you ask for... I'll see what I can do. Thanks Ed. I think.
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