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tooth
Mountain climber
B.C.
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May 11, 2008 - 12:18am PT
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Everyone keeps saying the coyotes keep trying to eat their dogs from the city. The problem is nowdays, since Paris Hilton made it fashionable, the poor Coyotes can't tell the difference between people's dogs and rats.
Get a real dog and you won't have that problem.
I was spending the weekend in Josh a couple months ago, when there was still frost on everything in the morning.
I got up before 6 and wandered around for a while, got some really good shots of a coyote howling straight up in the air before the sun was up from about 20 feet away. Followed him around for a mile or so, until he met up with his pack that was answering him. From hidden valley to echo rock area. I kept walking around after them, taking pictures as the sun rose, and thought I had the pack cornered once, between a wall and a pile of rocks.
I crouched down ready to take their pictures as the came out of the tunnel area, I could hear them grumbling and walking. Kept waiting, listening to them .. finally couldn't wait any longer, I walked into the 'hallway' to surprise them.
Surprise! No dogs. I looked back to where I had been crouching behind a bush.
They were all a few feet behind that spot looking at me!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 11, 2008 - 12:28am PT
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hey there all... say, in south texas, we saw them out in mid afternoon, at padred island, while we were fishing.... they didn't make a move to come near though---this was near 15 years ago... .or so...
now, then, in the delta area, in california.... near brentwood, or so.... my friend had her daughter outside on the porch, near abouts 10? years ago, and a coyote began approaching the house, eyeing her child... think the gal was about 2, or so...
she says there are still out and about, there, too....
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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May 11, 2008 - 01:17am PT
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RE:
"Hell, I'm surprised the coyotes don't have their own space program."
they've been a little busy, Ron - setting up the National Adoption
agency for wayward poodles...
Sheeesh, give some busy coyotes a break, will ya?
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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May 11, 2008 - 02:18am PT
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Fifi! Come back with my Fifi!!!!!!
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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May 11, 2008 - 04:08am PT
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What with all the bear, mountain lion, and now coyote attacks recently, I begin to suspect the animal kingdom is on the verge of a world wide "animal liberation" revolution. Maybe they've just been biding their time the last few centuries and now it time to rumble. All the two legged creatures are about the taste the rage of the wild ones. ha
and about time too, I'd say
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Kid Cossack
climber
Joshua Tree
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May 11, 2008 - 04:28am PT
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I live next to Coyote Hole in Joshua Tree. Last year my neighbors, Bruce and Martha, were walking their small dogs on a leach. Two Hungery Coyotes raced out of the bush and attempted to run of with both dogs. The couple beat the coyotes with everything they could get thier hands on. Luckily, they were successful.
On the other hand, I have witnessed cruelties to many a Coyote. Just recently one was used for target practice. He crawled to a neighbors back porch to die. My other Neighbor Patty wrapped him in a blanket & put him in the back of her truck so he could die in peace. Also, I've seen badly burned Coyotes that have had gas thrown on them & lite. While the human race multiplies wild animals become more susceptible to abuse & confused over their role in the enviroment.
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sketchyy
Trad climber
Vagrant
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May 11, 2008 - 09:52am PT
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The whole we moved into their habitat and deserve it is a bunch of crap. When I am camped in remote places, like the bob marshall, it is rare to hear coyotes, and when you do it usually sounds like less than 5. When camped near towns I hear huge packs all the time. Populated areas can support larger numbers than wild areas, and the coyotes in these areas have spent there whole live eating out of trash cans, road shoulders, and dog food bowls. I don't feel any worse shooting a coyote near town, than I do setting a mouse trap.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 11, 2008 - 09:57am PT
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Yeah Sketch,
they oughta thank us for being here to support them, huh?
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sketchyy
Trad climber
Vagrant
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May 11, 2008 - 10:11am PT
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Not quite what I meant but I can see how you got that from what
I wrote. Coyotes will do just fine with or without us, much like rats. I think it is strange that people think coyotes in urban areas should be protected, but no one bats an eye when you kill a rat.
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L
climber
Ocean of dreams....
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May 11, 2008 - 10:11am PT
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In another lifetime as an Indie and documentary filmmaker, I worked with tame coyotes on a regular basis for several years.
Once they got it through their heads that I was the Alpha Female (and a real beotch--hahaha!), they were as sweet and gentle and willing to please as any domestic dog I've ever owned. They were also tougher, surprisingly more courageous, and a heck of a lot smarter.
Never felt threatened by them, nor by any in the wild--and I've been around wild ones my entire life.
However, they can sense fear better than any animal I've ever seen, and for a predator, that's like a blinking neon "Diner" sign. Plus with their habitat being replaced by human settlements, it's not a mystery why they've become so aggressive. At least not to me.
Edit: Sketchyy...if you are unable to see the difference between wild coyotes that have been evicted from their homes and hunting territories, and rats who prefer to live in the shadow of humanity, and actually proliferate there as they never could in the wild, then your eyes are closed and I'm wondering how you can even read this thread.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2008 - 10:32am PT
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Outdoor cats in our neighborhood last less than a year. Ours are in by dusk whey the coyote's come down the wash for dinner. Neighbors find the cats in tact except for the innerds skillfully removed.
We camped next to a yappy dog in Jumbo Rocks who was tied to the desert shrubbery. We were hoping he would become a coyote snack when he was yapping at 6am.
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AllezAllez510
Trad climber
PDX, OR
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May 11, 2008 - 10:54am PT
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Sketch, you seriously have no problem shooting coyotes? Using your logic, we should just shoot the bears that rummage through trash in Yosemite Valley. I just don't get the killing thing. How does one kill an animal feel fine about it? F*#king psychos.
Especially in this day and age. And don't give me the "I hunt to feed my family" line. Such crap. People in the U$ hunt for the thrill of murder.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2008 - 11:06am PT
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Humans killed in excess of 100 million fellow humans in the 20th century alone. Humans inflicting pain of such magnitude is beyond anything you can imagine. And that is not taking into account mental, emotional and physical violence, the torture, pain and cruelty they continue to inflict on each other. Echart Tolle
Psychos seems to fit the bill.
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sketchyy
Trad climber
Vagrant
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May 11, 2008 - 11:11am PT
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Didn't say I felt fine about it, I said I feel the same as if I kill a rodent. My point was that the coyote population is expanding because of us, not in spite of us. The popular hippy notion of "we moved into there area" is not accurate. They were here before us, and will be here after, but in much lower numbers.
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AllezAllez510
Trad climber
PDX, OR
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May 11, 2008 - 11:28am PT
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How is it a 'hippy' notion? I think it's a 'fact'. Five hundred years ago there was no LA or Riverside urban sprawl. The coyotes and other species were here before. We most definitely did move onto their land. Or, onto Chumash and Gabrielino land if one is to be human-centric.
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L
climber
Ocean of dreams....
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May 11, 2008 - 11:28am PT
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Considering your self-styled label is "vagrant", I would wonder about your sources.
It isn't a hippy notion, as you so technically put it. It is a fact, supported by US Dept of F&W data, various state agencies data, wildlife protective groups' data, and anecdotally by anyone with half a brain.
You think all the coyotes came running into our backyards because they were tired of living in Siberia and decided to migrate?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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May 11, 2008 - 11:48am PT
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Not sure why sketchyy's waving his arms so, certainly both trends are real --
people paving over coyote country with McMansions in some places, and coyotes
moving in amongst humans in others.
I often hear coyotes yip and howl to each other as I'm walking Jack in the woods at
night. He growls back softly. The notheastern coyotes seem to be a relatively new
arrival, moving into ecological space left empty when the wolves were killed off.
These northeast coyotes tend to be larger than the western or midwestern kind.
Some believe they hybridized with wolves somewhere along their trek east, but then
again animals tend to get larger towards the north; genetics of the NE coyotes seem
surprisingly unclear. They've been pretty shy around me and a 60-pound dog, though
we see their scat on the trail.
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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May 11, 2008 - 12:00pm PT
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Here in Michigan we have a decent population in the Lower Peninsula, and had a good population in the Upper Peninsula. Since the introduction/ re-introduction of the grey Wolf in the U.P. the coyote #’s have plummeted. The current Wolf population is somewhere in the area of 500, in 1995 it was 80, in 1980 there were none. Maybe we should introduce Wolves into more urban areas.
Prod.
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jstan
climber
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May 11, 2008 - 12:04pm PT
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The red wolf:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Wolf
shares its dentition with the coyote and is thought to share an ancestor
with wolves. I would expect questions of ancestry in the canus family
could probably yield threads whose number of posts exceeds anything
found on ST.
For many years packs of two or three coyote have been taking domestic
dogs in JT. A common occurence. Attacks on small children may come
now just because small children can be found everywhere.
During a long hike many years ago here on the So Cal coast I decided at
2AM to just lie down on the trail and take a nap. Seemed reasonable.
After a bit the coyotes let go very close by and I discovered a reason it
was probably not wise to be down.
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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May 11, 2008 - 12:06pm PT
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That is a funny story jstan.
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