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Messages 2801 - 2820 of total 2860 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Jan 10, 2014 - 10:45pm PT
Before I first tried climbing Growing Up, I thought the top down thing was kind of a lame copout. While I was on the route I quickly ceased to give a sh#t.

And for the life of me, I still can't bring myself to actually give a rats ass.

Thing is, its a great route and no one was ever going to put it in ground up. It doesn't go ground up, it's too blank. That's not to say it could never be freed. Who knows, some people are bad ass, but it's not going to go in some monumental ground up effort. It's not Sothern Belle. Same game, but not the same field, na' mean? The ground up game looses it's appeal when you run into a long section of AO. Who was really going to go up there, find that, and still press on risking their ass for a route that doesn't go? No one, that's who. So who honestly could find the energy in themselves to actually care how someone put a route up on a piece of stone that was destined to remain blank for all eternity?

Whatever, the climbing bad ass. But it's not a route for mortals. You'd need to be far above par to fire that thing off in a day. We made it to pitch 13, and that took us two days. I know of a very capable team that went up on it about a month ago. They made it to pitch 6. The bottom half is a worthy goal in of it's self.
Einstein

climber
Jan 10, 2014 - 10:50pm PT
So six years now and the thing still hasn't had a real ascent?

I thought the justification for the rap bolting was to have a route that people would do, as opposed to S Belle?

What a fecking idiot! You think you are somehow a big man for dredging this thread up? Doug Robinson and Sean Jones are better human beings than your sorry ass will ever be.
WBraun

climber
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
The South face of Half Dome is one of the most beautiful rock faces on the planet.

It deserves the best .....

Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Jan 11, 2014 - 12:01am PT
^^^^^
Fekkin A!
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Jan 11, 2014 - 12:26am PT
Thanks tons on that Salamanizer! Very important hearing your impressions, experiences and opinions on this. I really agree with you too. For others, Pitch #13 is at the end of the arch and the end of the trad section of climbing. Above is the massive section of top-down bolted free-climbing.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Jan 11, 2014 - 12:31am PT
Not everyone has to live by same rules as Klaus lives, or have the same values as coz, you, or me. Climbing is a very personal activities and people have reasons.

Quite right that there is no enforcement that prevents particular climbing choices of behavior. As food for thought, however, is it workable to universalize the notion that all of climbing's impactful activities (f*#king up the rock in whatever way we select) can be merely personal activities with personal reasons? IMHO, the answer is no. Would I retrobolt the BY? Would I replace all copperheads with bolts? Why not, if we have already damaged the rock, do it up fully, right? There are self regulating ideas, but there is no bible to hand them down from gen to gen. It's not absolute. It's just a handful of goofballs, curmudgeons and back water doofusas saying "Hey, maybe out of all the top down routes across the entire U.S. we don't top down this one iconic symbol of rock climbing.

The Chief is probably right, the line may not exist in any tangible sense anymore. Unfortunate in many cases. But great fun in other areas. The point in raising it in forums and threads like this is only to say 'there is another way' and serious thought should be put into places like Yosemite and Pinnacles.

Salamanizer is right too. When climbing it, and maxing out on the difficulty, who cares about how it went it. That's our own personal style in the moment. Just send!

The call out for me, regardless of the difficulty of any route, is setting out some rules for ourselves that dictate 'how' we will have an impact. In hard, aid maybe it's total hole counts, or total head placements, no ehooks, etc. In free climbing it's not resorting to aid. In bolting, maybe it's preserving adventure and going ground up. Or maybe at loose rock areas, it's about cleaning the loose up as best you can, and making sure each clip is perfect. And yes, forests get trashed out, and ATVs may wreck the desert, etc. But within the game of climbing "how" things get down matters because it does have an impact.

klaus

Big Wall climber
Pacif*#ka Muthaf*#ka
Jan 11, 2014 - 01:13am PT
^^ Exactly what I've been saying
klaus

Big Wall climber
Pacif*#ka Muthaf*#ka
Jan 11, 2014 - 01:21am PT
There's a 60 foot rap bolted aid ladder in the middle of it and no one here sees the irony

edit: maybe Chief
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 11, 2014 - 01:33am PT
This is new and f*#king incredible information. It never was a free climb ?

What ?

Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Jan 11, 2014 - 01:59am PT
Jim, the topo shows 15 points of A0 (bolts all). This is not a new piece of info at all, though.

Yeah it is ironic for sure and part of the whole foggy situation.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 11, 2014 - 02:05am PT
Trying to look through the fog, a voice came...


"Yeah, we could go there. But, maybe we should just let it be and come back another day when we are ready to do this, right. If even at all."



Or something to that effect.... Messner.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Jan 11, 2014 - 02:36am PT
There's a 60 foot rap bolted aid ladder in the middle of it and no one here sees the irony


I get what you're saying, but I find it hard to agree with all of it. Every route is different and acceptable ethics can change dramatically in just a matter of feet in some areas. Nobody can sensibly argue that top down isn't somewhat acceptable in certain situations and places.
Yes, the South Face is sacred ground, but it's mostly impenetrable. Anyone who's ever touched it quickly realizes that. There's miles of blank ground that will never see chalk marks even by the most burly of monkeys. Not because they couldn't cheat their way to it, just because they couldn't make a move even if they did.

What Growing Up is, is a good effort that abruptly ended at an impossible impasse. What should they have done? Stopped there and left the upper half to fester in the minds of those who dream it might be possible, only to have someone finally drill a bolt ladder to nowhere in a noble effort? Or perhaps drill the same bolt ladder to finally free the upper section in a balls out mirror image of Southern Belle resulting in a route that sees few to no accents and goes at exactly the same grade it does now?

Where I differ in opinion is this route would never go ground up. And in my mind that justifies exploration. Just as a chossy face is going to attract few ground up bids from those who are capable of climbing it. Look at Owens. Imagine if only ground up were acceptable there. What a shitty little locals only, lonely sh#t pile that place would be today. Top down made it into a destination. But only because ground up was impossible on most of it's routes.

The South Face of Half Dome is like this. I agree, it should be held to the highest standard, as most areas should be as well. However, this route was never going to go ground up... Never! So what harm is there in exploring top down on something that would otherwise never be? Nothing else will ever pass by within eyeshot of those bolts. It took nothing from anyone. No ones experience will be diminished or taken away by the line of bolts up there. It's not as if someone, somehow someday would have a chance in hell of climbing that upper section ground up. Not unless they were willing to commit to leaving behind the same AO bolt ladder the top down crew left.

And all this coming from one of the biggest ethics Nazis around... Who'd of thunk it?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 11, 2014 - 02:47am PT
Salamanizer,

It could be a 3,000 ft wall or a 60 foot blob of rock in the woods.

Just saying what you mean and what you did goes a long way in keeping it simple and avoiding confusion.

My respect for the routes that went before this thing has gone up accordingly.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 11, 2014 - 04:18am PT
Hey Einstooge, I never said they weren't good men. You think I'm the only one who has questioned the style here?

Much better men than you have questioned this route in one way or another.

So eat a bag of dicks.
clinker

Trad climber
California
Jan 11, 2014 - 08:37am PT
Get Kennedy to chop all routes that weren't put up onsight-freesolo. That is the true pure standard.
Oh I forgot the coveted first butt naked winter ascent.
PopLockeAndDropIt

Gym climber
Hialeah, FLORIDA
Jan 11, 2014 - 10:55am PT
Whatever happened to leaving something to the next generation?
WBraun

climber
Jan 11, 2014 - 10:57am PT
Salamanizer -- "Where I differ in opinion is this route would never go ground up."


They said that about "Bachar Yerian" originally before anyone ever tried it.

A few were eyeballing it besides John.

They were ready to rap bolt it.

lol

And then history came.

Just like on the second ascent of "Crimson Cringe".

Jardine said you'll never be able to do it without "friends".

So Ray offered his only rack of friends in existence.

Kauk said no way Jose and we'll prove you wrong ......

Never say never.

Just do what you have to ......
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 11, 2014 - 11:24am PT
Hey Werner, we heard over here on the Eastside that DNC is seriously considering expanding their concession developments over to that side of the Park.


Appears there's great money making potential for a new Hotel, Restaurants, Shopping Center below the So Face. New road to access the area.

The job creation would certainly be phenomenal.

Hell, with all them hundreds of routes that can be established on that expansion of pristine granite, at any cost of course, the revenue would be astronomical.

Put them routes up, or should we now comfortably say, down, and the masses will come and enjoy the climbing. Of course Zip Lines and landing pads for the BASER's, would be incorporated.

It would be a "Win Win" situ for everyone. Everyone would have the opportunity to enjoy it. Everyone.


Even the bears.......
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 11, 2014 - 11:38am PT
Annex the Hoover Wilderness and build a big ole retro hotel up past Twin Lakes with a view of the Hulk. The Hulkerbirds could sit on the patio and watch the Heros of Hulk in all their magnificence.

Easy access too. Run some water hoses off the top and have the best ice climbing in California too.

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 11, 2014 - 11:40am PT
Precisely!

Now you're talking Dingus. That a boy!


Bridgeport would once again become a thriving metropolis that it deserves as the County Seat.

REI and all.
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