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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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On the really fun climbs, the second shouldn't fall either. I've anchored to questionable shrubs when there were no other options. So perhaps carrying a few pins and a hammer isn't a bad plan on occasions.
I've been fortunate to get into ice climbing recently, I'm using my buddies old straight shaft tools, my knuckles don't currently hurt, but will if I get out again. New style screws definately rock, and I doubt I'd be up for leading with the old school stuff.
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jstan
climber
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Those B&W photos in oblique light are enough to make one want to go out and climb again. Ah well, we all have to face up to things. Very pleased to see Kevin putting in a backup nut. Way to go. And Ed's picture of the only crack climb in the Gunks does take one back.
I have had a booty I beam nut for almost forty years now. Don't know what they are called. Used it for the first time a few months ago. It worked! Added benefit of placing these is you get rid of a lot of weight.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Tol_man Paul is right. Tricams came out after Friends. The smallest Tricam is the only thing to protect the dicey mantle on the last pitch on the Direct Northwest Face of Lembert (so Ed H. is right too that TriCams are nice for Tmds).
I remember it being a big step up when Wild Country came out with curved stoppers (distinct from the straight-sided chouinard stoppers). They made a few more points of contact in a crack and were way more stable. Set them with a tug and the natural spring of the curved shape made it much less likely that they would come out as you climbed past. Problem with the early ones was if you fell on them they were welded in for good.
The big deal with Friends in my mind was that they could be placed so fast. All of a sudden, if you had one good foot and one good hand in a crack you could zip in a friend no worries. Trying to fiddle with stoppers and hexes in the middle of strenuous moves was what my nightmares were about. The right decision was usually to just run it out to a someplace with a small stance.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Hexes and Stoppers? You mean that new stuff?
My first chocks were a MOAC Chockstone (somewhat like an original #7 stopper), and home made hexes from 1-1/4 inch stock and 3/4 inch stock. One of the latter held a short (maybe five or ten foot) fall on the Harding route on the Apron (Please don't ask me how I managed to fall there).
I also made some wedge-shaped nuts (with the sling through the center like the old Clog wedges), but used aluminum that was too soft for the size I made. One of them "melted" out on me near the start of Mud Flats when I tried to aid on it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Tri-cams did "come out" after friends but they existed BEFORE.
In '75 Bob Dodds and I got to try out Greg Lowe's prototypes that, although slightly different in construction to the eventual commercial product, worked exactly the same way with the sling wrapping the device,
They were amazing, and I was surprised that they weren't sold sooner. Perhaps Jardine was more motivated to bring a product to market.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Great pictures, Off White.
I can't think of any 5.10 I've done that I'd want to do on passive pro alone, but some pitches seem more reasonable: 1st of the Salathe; Pee Pee Pillar; 1st of Yin Yang; Mr. Natural.
Some 5.10 pitches come to mind as nightmares for nut and hex only: Outer Limits; Sacherer Cracker; Henley Quits; Little Wing; Five and Dime (shudder)...
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RRK
Trad climber
Talladega, Al
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Gunkie wrote:
"Has anyone used or even heard of Forrest T-Tons [sp?]? I have some of those things and carried them on my rack for a while. I remember one bomber placement.... that's it. And didn't George Willig use a variation of the Forrest T-Ton to ascend the window washer tracks on one of the World Trade Center towers [RIP] in the 1970's? "
and fattrad thinks that they're useless? I gotta call you on that one. The middle sizes (6-9) are among the most useful passive gear on my rack. I reslung them a few years back along with the 7-10 hexes and carry them every time up. You're just not tuned into what they can do. One sweet trick, that always gets a "where can I get some of those?" response, is to slip those arm-flanges into an undercut watergrove, with the sling flange sticking straight out towards you in a vertical orientation and slide it down till it bites. Like Jimmy Buffett says, "it's so simple, like the Jitterbug, it plum evaded me". I have never described this placement to the point that anyone has ever understood what I was saying, and usually just have to show them. Once you get the idea then a whole new world opens up. This is only one example of the many ways that those little flange-arms on Titons can protect you when nothing else works. (I took a pretty nice drop on one of these placements in Lineville Gorge just this past fall - or maybe it was spring - I forget the season but I do remember watching the Titon go past.) If you've got some that you're not using then drop me a line.
I still use the old hexes and gave away all my new ones. It just seems that the old ones bite the rock better for some reason - different aluminum maybe - (and clank in the right key when walking around). The #10 is perfectly porportioned in some mathematical way that I don't entirely understand. Tricams are new to me - I've only used them in the past few years at the instigation of 'ol Dirt and have to say that the pinkish (red-blue?) sizes are on my rack to stay.
Another plus to using the old gear is that everybody wants to know what it is. Usually it's just guys who also don't know what a razor is, but occasionally you get to explain your "neat gear" to a hottie in butt-floss - which is a separate, independent, and totally adequate reason for carrying it around even if you never managed to climb past the beer cooler.
Good thread. I'm up for the no-cam climb-a-thon (leave the children at home for this one) Maybe we can get Geritol to sponsor?
RRK
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Griff
Social climber
Felton, PA
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I never fully trusted a hex used in the wide "camming position" as shown in the chouinard catalog unless it was placed above a constriction similar to a conventional nut.
It was suggested during the 80's that Reeds Pinnacle (I think)
was more safely led on hexes rather than friends, as friends would (could) walk back to a wider part of the crack and fall or become irretrievable. People would laugh at that notion now.
We used mostly nuts and hexes and only used a friend here and there for tough spots. That's because we did not have enough money to buy full racks of friends.
Add some HB's and the two smallest tri cams and you are stylin.
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rich sims
Trad climber
co
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Anyone remember the Mammoth Quakes?
I remember talking to a guy that was leading the Folly during one of the shakes. As the rock was flexing his first thought was will my fingers get smashed. Then he looked down and all his nut had fallen down the rope and the Friends (the few he had) were his only pro.
I for got my harness last weekend so I just tied a bowline on a coil, got some looks .
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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There's more to old gear than just gear. What about hip belays?
A few years ago, on "Tooth or Consequences" (very good route in the Organ Mtns near Las Cruces), after some moderately difficult pitches there was a fairly long but quite easy slab pitch. I brought up my partners on a hip belay cuz I knew they'd be traveling faster than I could get rope in through a mechanical belay device. First partner up was an old-time trad hog, who took one look at my belay, nodded approval, and went about the business of sorting gear and getting ready for the next pitch. Partner two got there and took one look at my belay and totally freaked. Launched into a major tongue lashing. How could I endanger her that way? What kind of idiot was I? How could she ever have believed that I knew the first thing about climbing?
She was no dummy and no noob. She was a hard climber who had plenty of experience on sport, trad, mountains, and had even climbed the Salathe in Yosemite. But she'd started after the introduction of mechanical belay devices and couldn't comprehend the fact that a hip belay could be just as safe as an ATC (or whatever), and was actually better in some cases.
For the record, the first fall I ever caught was a Factor 1, on a hip belay. No harm to me, no harm to the faller, and no big deal.
So when the all-passive ascent that some of the posters to this thread have suggested takes place, let it be done with hip belays.
D
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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I'm just sorry it's not one of my hand drilled ones!
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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I hope I am not giving away any trade secrets, but back in the day, some climbers used to put stiff wire, like a coathanger inside a webbing-slung hex to give it more reach. On some climbs, having a bit more reach with a hex or stopper was the difference between having pro and not having pro at the crux.
Apologies to Mark Moore for spilling the beans.
Bruce
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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This is how I've always rigged my Tri-cams. And I always considered Titons as necessary forerunners of Tricams. I'm also with RRK - #6-9 Titons are fabulous passive gear (even if Werner throws them off climbs as worthless) and stack with hexs in lots of unnatural ways.
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Does anyone remember Campbell Saddlewedges? I still have a bunch of them and still carry a few on my Gunks rack. The pebbly Gunks cracks eat these things up. The saddle on the face of the wedge slots over the protrusions and creates bombproof placements.
I routinely use a #2 at the crux of Retribution in the Gunks [just above the little corner roof].
Though, I really need to resling these pieces.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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my first route at Donner Summit was Nova Express. At the time i was confident on Tahoe 10a, but not solid. in my youthful glee, i ignored the advice to ease into the grades when you visit a new area. so up i go first route of the morning. all is going well, although im working pretty hard. about 60 feet up i place a pink tricam in the cammed position, clip it and battle upwards another 10 or so feet. im wheezing and pumped and fumble with my next piece for too long. i get it placed and pull up a couple of loops of slack to clip it. compromised dexterity authored the next moment and i bumble the clip and drop the slack. i haul it up once again but there is no way i can thread the cord through the biner. so im off on a 25' footer onto the tricam as my belayer is still rubbing the sleep from his eyes.
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Double D
climber
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Can't really talk much about tricams as they didn't seem to stick very well in Yosemite granite for free climbing. But hexes rule!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Boot Flake. It's the only time I ever remember not being able to get anything in. Every 10 feet or so I'd try, but to no avail so I just ran it out to the belay. Anyone else have this challenge BITD?
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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I still have my Saddlewedges,and MOAC's,and straight Chouinards in half sizes.I have some other nuts that are drilled sideways so a sling went through them that way and you just put the nut on a full length sling over your shoulder.I usually carried a stout Copperhead in the Gunks and found many great placements for it.I have a set of pro deal Titons on flourescent webbing,but never took to them.
My partner back then,Mel Hamel, got a set(3) of Friends,back then Ray Jardine's mom took the orders.They worked fine,so well that I had strong psuedo-ethical issues about them,the made it too easy!!.Mel wouldn't touch chalk while I lived with one hand in the bag.In the end we both caved.
No commercially available small cams back then.My"most sketch" piece is a bootleg half size friend,God it's scary looking.The first sewn runners I ever owned were from Troll and I bought them in Capel Curig in Joe Brown's shop there while waiting for the rain to stop.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Posted earlier on the New Scanner -- Old Climbs thread.
All these climbers are carrying Colorado Nut Company I-beams.
Paul Sibley leading Out to Lunge (1970):
Steve Wunsch protecting the Lizard using slings on mud flakes, each weighted down by a piton (1971):
Chiloe rap-cleaning after a tube-chock protected lead of Fantasia (1974):
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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One more sweet piece That I still carry: SMC Camloks.
I still have two of these gadgets. They work great with perlon. Spectra or the stiffer cords make these pieces walk.
I haven't heard the "Kids, it's rude to point" while stolling down the carrige road with my rack of artifacts.... yet.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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healeyj and RRK (that rhymes!) need to get a room together and fondle their Titons.
I swear RRK believes that Titons were sent down from heaven. (thrown out, like Satan, is more likely) He delights in finding an obscure placement where the damned things will work.
There is very little to see that could be more pathetic than a fat, old, gimpy guy, cackling with glee over his bomber Titon placement.
One day he may learn how to correctly place that Holy of Holies, the tricam, god bless em.
I say correctly, because he can't seem to tall the difference between good and bad most of the time. Remember, this is the man who broke, in his own words, "everything that flaps on the way down", after placing a piece in dirt. That's right, I said in dirt. His cams have fallen to the bottom of the crack ( his comment: " You just don't understand rattley gear."), as well as had their axles bent from only putting two lobes in the rock.
Clearly, this man has trouble with gear that is conceptually beyond the right angle.
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