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marky
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 4, 2008 - 01:45am PT
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Anyone under the age of 30 would be astonished to learn what you did with gear of the hexagonal or triangular variety.
Be explicit.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Back in the day, the standard Yosemite Rack was #1-#8 or 9 Chouinard Hex and #3-#8(no half sizes) stopper. That's a rack of 15 or so pieces of gear. Throw in a few free biners and off you went.
I never liked tri-cams for free climbing. They were not very versatile and tended to fall out in the "cammed" position. Nice in pockets like Courtright, but that's about it. Frankly, I don't know any climbers climbing at a high level who used tri-cams in places like Yosemite.
Bruce
ps- Warbler, is that a fifteen-footer or when you were fifteen?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Read the thread It takes balls to use nuts...
my climbing partner Mike leading p1 of Baby in the 'Gunks, 1980.
The rack is stoppers, nuts and tied slings.
He gets about 3 pieces in on the first pitch. That's how we climbed back then...
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marky
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2008 - 02:09am PT
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Excellent.
I am doing my best to lead a hex-and-tri renaissance among young climbers. Kind of like the current fixed-gear fad, only even more retro and infinitely cooler.
It's hip to be square. Or hexagonal.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I keep suggesting we have a First Annual Cam-Free Day where all the kids can get out and jump on all those old 70's lines with just hexs and stoppers (no new fangle tri-cams please) - but the idea just never seems to get any traction for some reason...
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona, Spain
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So, youngsters don't use tricams? Sh#t, I really am getting long in the tooth!
I don't get on a trad climb without my 0.5, 1 and 1.5 tricams. Even in Yosemite, where I used to climb at a high level (for me, that is). For wilderness routes, a big hex is a lot lighter than a big friend, and the sound they make clanking against your other gear has a certain je ne sais quoi that every climber should experience.
On the other hand, small hexes and large tricams aren't very useful, IMHO. So, if you really want to go retro, why not sling up some machine nuts? Or use knotted webbing? Knotted webbing is actually a good trick to know - I've rapped off it a few times.
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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
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what are we calling youngster? doesnt matter how old you are, if you climb in the gunks, odds are you carry tricams. and many carry hexes (more cowbell!)
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Tri-cams rule.
That's probably the reason that Kim Carrigan wrote that article years ago saying Yosemite was no longer at the cutting edge of free climbing. You Yos boys were just way too freaked out to use any gear that had a pink sewn sling attached :)
I think someone should do an all Tri-cam ascent of the Nose.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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No, the Valley is cam country...
different features will protect differently, nothing more than that. The horizontal cracks of the 'Gunks were dicey cam placements when Friends first came out... thus the famous 'Gunks rig which added a sling down the rigid central beam to prevent levering. Any one have a picture of that?
I do carry tricams on some climbs in Tuolumne because it is not unusual to come across a beautiful pocket in the middle of an otherwise blank, knobby face. While you might get lucky and place an Alien, tricams tend to fit better.
But I don't recall ever wishing I had a tricam in the Valley... yet.
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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The horizontal cracks of the 'Gunks were dicey cam placements when Friends first came out... thus the famous 'Gunks rig which added a sling down the rigid central beam to prevent levering.
I've got a whole rack of those with 5mm Spectra. Usually clip both slings as the Spectra is short and the main sling is longer. I heard one story [Russ Clune's bro, Danny Clune] snapping a rigid stem Friend and being saved by the control cables. Yikes. I'll try to post a picture of my 25 year-old Friends with tie-offs, tonight.
BTW, in the valley I've only used the pink Tri-cam in pin scars while aid climbing. The valley is cam central.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Denver, Colorado
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I agree fattrad, also try some Forrest copperheads, or Colorado Nut I-beams!
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Here's your visual aid:
Watusi seeking the right stopper on Stone Groove
Guy Andrews with a rack of windchimes on Body Shop
BVB with a sweet #8 hex placement on Central Pillar of Frenzy
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Has anyone used or even heard of Forrest T-Tons [sp?]? I have some of those things and carried them on my rack for a while. I remember one bomber placement.... that's it. And didn't George Willig use a variation of the Forrest T-Ton to ascend the window washer tracks on one of the World Trade Center towers [RIP] in the 1970's?
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Check my above post, I carried the Titons for about two months...worthless.
Must have been subliminal :)
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SteveW
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Not about hexes--but I've still got my entire set, drilled out
of course. But the original Chouinard stoppers--stuff cord
through the larger ones and then you can use them for
opposition in the horizontal cracks at the Gunks. Good stuff.
I wouldn't hesitate to fall on either of a well placed stopper
or hex. In fact, I did just that quite a few times.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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I could be wrong, but I think the lowe tri-cams came out after Ray Jardine introduced us to friends.
As far as good stories of hexes, one of my first attempts at leading was an overhanging crack at Castle Rock in the Santa Cruz Mountains. The route is called Fairwell to Arms, in the old guide book it was rated 5.9, looking online I see it is rated 10a, which is more like it.
Neadless to say at the time I wasn't up to leading a 10a, heck I couldn't even pull it on tr until a few subsequent tries. But at the time a 9 seemed doable, forget a tr attempt, and I had some nice new pro to try.
The first placement was a bomber hex in sideways, I think a #9. As I tried to transition from the overhaning crack to the verticle arm bar I placed one of my friends, #2 I think in a flared crack. It didn't take me long to flame out. I and shortly thereafter the friend were airborn, but that bomber hex kept me from crashing into the rocks below.
I've been thinking about doing some hex and stopper only climbs, but most of what I have to climb now is bolt protected faces. But on good granite and more moderate grades, no reason not to go after it with a set of stoppers and hexes.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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After years of placing hexes I took my first leader fall (ca 1979?)on a number 8 hex, maybe 25 feet. Surprised the hell out of me that it held. ha
still feel safest above a well placed #7 or 8 stopper; oh yea, I still miss the cow bell clanging around the crags.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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I sort of fell out of climbing in the mid eighties when cams were making their way. All I ever had was a couple of the original friends that were used when nothing else worked. I had the usual assortment of hexes and stoppers plus an odd clog or two. At times I even carried a teton and some heads. Heads worked good in some spots. Tetons sucked and left the rack quickly. When I started climbing again around the turn of the millenium, All i could afford were shoes, new slings(1" webbing), a rope and new biners. No draws, no cams, no harness(the old one looked fine). The first time I ran into other climbers, what a wake-up. I was hideously outdated. I've lead a few things since then(nothing harder than a 5.9) and still use my cams sparingly. I have had a few compliments on my nutcraft. When and if I can afford cams, I'll get used to them, but now I just go with what I know.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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How about extending this thread to include tales of primitive ice gear? I was cleaning up my basement recently and found a bag full of antique ice screws (anybody remember Warthogs?).
Brought back memories of my first lead of steep ice. It was a free-hanging curtain and I had an MSR Thunderbird axe, a Stubai ice hammer, and screws that were a lot easier to place with two hands than one. The top pitches were a real joy, but the first one, the one with the curtain, was a real pant-loader.
I think I called it "Never a Bride" because it was beside a waterfall called Bridal Veil (the one in BC, not CO), but I should have called it "Brown Trousers" or something like that.
D
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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How about pitons? Venturing out on Rockies limestone with hexes, straight stoppers, and pins. Hexes are way harder to place in limestone than granite. I think we had a lot of shaky belays and truly believed in the leader must not fall.
Modern ice gear definitely takes 1/2 to 1 grade off many climbs.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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On the really fun climbs, the second shouldn't fall either. I've anchored to questionable shrubs when there were no other options. So perhaps carrying a few pins and a hammer isn't a bad plan on occasions.
I've been fortunate to get into ice climbing recently, I'm using my buddies old straight shaft tools, my knuckles don't currently hurt, but will if I get out again. New style screws definately rock, and I doubt I'd be up for leading with the old school stuff.
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jstan
climber
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Those B&W photos in oblique light are enough to make one want to go out and climb again. Ah well, we all have to face up to things. Very pleased to see Kevin putting in a backup nut. Way to go. And Ed's picture of the only crack climb in the Gunks does take one back.
I have had a booty I beam nut for almost forty years now. Don't know what they are called. Used it for the first time a few months ago. It worked! Added benefit of placing these is you get rid of a lot of weight.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Tol_man Paul is right. Tricams came out after Friends. The smallest Tricam is the only thing to protect the dicey mantle on the last pitch on the Direct Northwest Face of Lembert (so Ed H. is right too that TriCams are nice for Tmds).
I remember it being a big step up when Wild Country came out with curved stoppers (distinct from the straight-sided chouinard stoppers). They made a few more points of contact in a crack and were way more stable. Set them with a tug and the natural spring of the curved shape made it much less likely that they would come out as you climbed past. Problem with the early ones was if you fell on them they were welded in for good.
The big deal with Friends in my mind was that they could be placed so fast. All of a sudden, if you had one good foot and one good hand in a crack you could zip in a friend no worries. Trying to fiddle with stoppers and hexes in the middle of strenuous moves was what my nightmares were about. The right decision was usually to just run it out to a someplace with a small stance.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Hexes and Stoppers? You mean that new stuff?
My first chocks were a MOAC Chockstone (somewhat like an original #7 stopper), and home made hexes from 1-1/4 inch stock and 3/4 inch stock. One of the latter held a short (maybe five or ten foot) fall on the Harding route on the Apron (Please don't ask me how I managed to fall there).
I also made some wedge-shaped nuts (with the sling through the center like the old Clog wedges), but used aluminum that was too soft for the size I made. One of them "melted" out on me near the start of Mud Flats when I tried to aid on it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Tri-cams did "come out" after friends but they existed BEFORE.
In '75 Bob Dodds and I got to try out Greg Lowe's prototypes that, although slightly different in construction to the eventual commercial product, worked exactly the same way with the sling wrapping the device,
They were amazing, and I was surprised that they weren't sold sooner. Perhaps Jardine was more motivated to bring a product to market.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Great pictures, Off White.
I can't think of any 5.10 I've done that I'd want to do on passive pro alone, but some pitches seem more reasonable: 1st of the Salathe; Pee Pee Pillar; 1st of Yin Yang; Mr. Natural.
Some 5.10 pitches come to mind as nightmares for nut and hex only: Outer Limits; Sacherer Cracker; Henley Quits; Little Wing; Five and Dime (shudder)...
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RRK
Trad climber
Talladega, Al
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Gunkie wrote:
"Has anyone used or even heard of Forrest T-Tons [sp?]? I have some of those things and carried them on my rack for a while. I remember one bomber placement.... that's it. And didn't George Willig use a variation of the Forrest T-Ton to ascend the window washer tracks on one of the World Trade Center towers [RIP] in the 1970's? "
and fattrad thinks that they're useless? I gotta call you on that one. The middle sizes (6-9) are among the most useful passive gear on my rack. I reslung them a few years back along with the 7-10 hexes and carry them every time up. You're just not tuned into what they can do. One sweet trick, that always gets a "where can I get some of those?" response, is to slip those arm-flanges into an undercut watergrove, with the sling flange sticking straight out towards you in a vertical orientation and slide it down till it bites. Like Jimmy Buffett says, "it's so simple, like the Jitterbug, it plum evaded me". I have never described this placement to the point that anyone has ever understood what I was saying, and usually just have to show them. Once you get the idea then a whole new world opens up. This is only one example of the many ways that those little flange-arms on Titons can protect you when nothing else works. (I took a pretty nice drop on one of these placements in Lineville Gorge just this past fall - or maybe it was spring - I forget the season but I do remember watching the Titon go past.) If you've got some that you're not using then drop me a line.
I still use the old hexes and gave away all my new ones. It just seems that the old ones bite the rock better for some reason - different aluminum maybe - (and clank in the right key when walking around). The #10 is perfectly porportioned in some mathematical way that I don't entirely understand. Tricams are new to me - I've only used them in the past few years at the instigation of 'ol Dirt and have to say that the pinkish (red-blue?) sizes are on my rack to stay.
Another plus to using the old gear is that everybody wants to know what it is. Usually it's just guys who also don't know what a razor is, but occasionally you get to explain your "neat gear" to a hottie in butt-floss - which is a separate, independent, and totally adequate reason for carrying it around even if you never managed to climb past the beer cooler.
Good thread. I'm up for the no-cam climb-a-thon (leave the children at home for this one) Maybe we can get Geritol to sponsor?
RRK
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Griff
Social climber
Felton, PA
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I never fully trusted a hex used in the wide "camming position" as shown in the chouinard catalog unless it was placed above a constriction similar to a conventional nut.
It was suggested during the 80's that Reeds Pinnacle (I think)
was more safely led on hexes rather than friends, as friends would (could) walk back to a wider part of the crack and fall or become irretrievable. People would laugh at that notion now.
We used mostly nuts and hexes and only used a friend here and there for tough spots. That's because we did not have enough money to buy full racks of friends.
Add some HB's and the two smallest tri cams and you are stylin.
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rich sims
Trad climber
co
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Anyone remember the Mammoth Quakes?
I remember talking to a guy that was leading the Folly during one of the shakes. As the rock was flexing his first thought was will my fingers get smashed. Then he looked down and all his nut had fallen down the rope and the Friends (the few he had) were his only pro.
I for got my harness last weekend so I just tied a bowline on a coil, got some looks .
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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There's more to old gear than just gear. What about hip belays?
A few years ago, on "Tooth or Consequences" (very good route in the Organ Mtns near Las Cruces), after some moderately difficult pitches there was a fairly long but quite easy slab pitch. I brought up my partners on a hip belay cuz I knew they'd be traveling faster than I could get rope in through a mechanical belay device. First partner up was an old-time trad hog, who took one look at my belay, nodded approval, and went about the business of sorting gear and getting ready for the next pitch. Partner two got there and took one look at my belay and totally freaked. Launched into a major tongue lashing. How could I endanger her that way? What kind of idiot was I? How could she ever have believed that I knew the first thing about climbing?
She was no dummy and no noob. She was a hard climber who had plenty of experience on sport, trad, mountains, and had even climbed the Salathe in Yosemite. But she'd started after the introduction of mechanical belay devices and couldn't comprehend the fact that a hip belay could be just as safe as an ATC (or whatever), and was actually better in some cases.
For the record, the first fall I ever caught was a Factor 1, on a hip belay. No harm to me, no harm to the faller, and no big deal.
So when the all-passive ascent that some of the posters to this thread have suggested takes place, let it be done with hip belays.
D
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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I'm just sorry it's not one of my hand drilled ones!
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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I hope I am not giving away any trade secrets, but back in the day, some climbers used to put stiff wire, like a coathanger inside a webbing-slung hex to give it more reach. On some climbs, having a bit more reach with a hex or stopper was the difference between having pro and not having pro at the crux.
Apologies to Mark Moore for spilling the beans.
Bruce
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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This is how I've always rigged my Tri-cams. And I always considered Titons as necessary forerunners of Tricams. I'm also with RRK - #6-9 Titons are fabulous passive gear (even if Werner throws them off climbs as worthless) and stack with hexs in lots of unnatural ways.
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Does anyone remember Campbell Saddlewedges? I still have a bunch of them and still carry a few on my Gunks rack. The pebbly Gunks cracks eat these things up. The saddle on the face of the wedge slots over the protrusions and creates bombproof placements.
I routinely use a #2 at the crux of Retribution in the Gunks [just above the little corner roof].
Though, I really need to resling these pieces.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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my first route at Donner Summit was Nova Express. At the time i was confident on Tahoe 10a, but not solid. in my youthful glee, i ignored the advice to ease into the grades when you visit a new area. so up i go first route of the morning. all is going well, although im working pretty hard. about 60 feet up i place a pink tricam in the cammed position, clip it and battle upwards another 10 or so feet. im wheezing and pumped and fumble with my next piece for too long. i get it placed and pull up a couple of loops of slack to clip it. compromised dexterity authored the next moment and i bumble the clip and drop the slack. i haul it up once again but there is no way i can thread the cord through the biner. so im off on a 25' footer onto the tricam as my belayer is still rubbing the sleep from his eyes.
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Double D
climber
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Can't really talk much about tricams as they didn't seem to stick very well in Yosemite granite for free climbing. But hexes rule!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Boot Flake. It's the only time I ever remember not being able to get anything in. Every 10 feet or so I'd try, but to no avail so I just ran it out to the belay. Anyone else have this challenge BITD?
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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I still have my Saddlewedges,and MOAC's,and straight Chouinards in half sizes.I have some other nuts that are drilled sideways so a sling went through them that way and you just put the nut on a full length sling over your shoulder.I usually carried a stout Copperhead in the Gunks and found many great placements for it.I have a set of pro deal Titons on flourescent webbing,but never took to them.
My partner back then,Mel Hamel, got a set(3) of Friends,back then Ray Jardine's mom took the orders.They worked fine,so well that I had strong psuedo-ethical issues about them,the made it too easy!!.Mel wouldn't touch chalk while I lived with one hand in the bag.In the end we both caved.
No commercially available small cams back then.My"most sketch" piece is a bootleg half size friend,God it's scary looking.The first sewn runners I ever owned were from Troll and I bought them in Capel Curig in Joe Brown's shop there while waiting for the rain to stop.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Posted earlier on the New Scanner -- Old Climbs thread.
All these climbers are carrying Colorado Nut Company I-beams.
Paul Sibley leading Out to Lunge (1970):
Steve Wunsch protecting the Lizard using slings on mud flakes, each weighted down by a piton (1971):
Chiloe rap-cleaning after a tube-chock protected lead of Fantasia (1974):
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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One more sweet piece That I still carry: SMC Camloks.
I still have two of these gadgets. They work great with perlon. Spectra or the stiffer cords make these pieces walk.
I haven't heard the "Kids, it's rude to point" while stolling down the carrige road with my rack of artifacts.... yet.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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healeyj and RRK (that rhymes!) need to get a room together and fondle their Titons.
I swear RRK believes that Titons were sent down from heaven. (thrown out, like Satan, is more likely) He delights in finding an obscure placement where the damned things will work.
There is very little to see that could be more pathetic than a fat, old, gimpy guy, cackling with glee over his bomber Titon placement.
One day he may learn how to correctly place that Holy of Holies, the tricam, god bless em.
I say correctly, because he can't seem to tall the difference between good and bad most of the time. Remember, this is the man who broke, in his own words, "everything that flaps on the way down", after placing a piece in dirt. That's right, I said in dirt. His cams have fallen to the bottom of the crack ( his comment: " You just don't understand rattley gear."), as well as had their axles bent from only putting two lobes in the rock.
Clearly, this man has trouble with gear that is conceptually beyond the right angle.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Ablakov cam (looks like part of an old pulley) left behind by the soviets on the N Face of Inspiration in the North Cascades in 1977. A friend bootied it on the second ascent... in 2004!.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nice one Off!
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Can't really talk much about tricams as they didn't seem to stick very well in Yosemite granite for free climbing. But hexes rule!
Agreed. I'm no oldie, or at any rate, I'm a pretty new climber, so I can't speak about "back in the day." Instead, I can tell you that I recently went on my first real climbing trip to the Valley. I brought my standard East Coast rack. The tricams didn't get much action, but the hexes simply slid in beautifully all over the place. Note, though, I only did easy to moderate (5.6-5.9) climbs.
GO
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho
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Stacked hexes. Even now I feel the pucker.
We didn't have any tube chocks and it seemed that every red sandstone crack we would hump would be of the arm-bar-heel-toe-chicken-wing variety. At least there was some psychological protection.
Stacked hexes were super-easy to clean too! A slight downward tug and they'd be out.
Holy kamoly those were some good times.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Ghost,
I still use a hip belay when bringing up a second that will be moving fast. I've yet to have anyone give me grief over it. I've probably used every mechanical belay device out there, and none is as fast or smooth as the hip belay.
If the partner wants lots of slack when they move fast, they are more then welcome to a mechanical belay.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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This reminds me I need to send ChickenSkinner a rack of symmetric hexes that I have for the museum. These are 35 years old and are early Chouinard clean gear. I started climbing BF and learned to set chocks and stoppers in all kinds of stuff. This was back in my old high school climbing club (our motto was rack your nuts and climb on). I cannot remember particular instances other one at Smith on a climb call Lycopodophyta I used just about every piece of gear I had (single set of stoppers and hexes). I got to the top an had large hex left. I threw it in the crack and belayed my partner up.
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soaring_bird
Trad climber
Cheyenne, WY
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My first lead pitches at Seneca Rocks, WV in the 70's were all with hexes and stoppers. The crystals and irregularities of the Tuscorora Sandstone cracks and flakes were (and still are) very conducive to passive trad gear. Moderate routes in Yosemite like Moby Dick Center and Bishops Terrace can easily be safely protected with hexes. Some routes like Reed's Direct are protected BETTER with hexes than they are with cams due to the shape of the inwardly flaring crack. Hexes also make very cheap rap anchors for routes in the mountains, and are therefore still essential components of my rack for any route that has adequate rest stances to stop and place pro, and cracks that have constrictions that eat 'em up. Climbing at places like Indian Creek, UT, however, would be just downright frightening if you show up only with a rack of hexes. Cams RULE on Wingate cracks. To think that guys like Earl Wiggins did FA's in the desert (i.e. Supercrack) using pre-cam pro is just mind blowing. The old timers who did such FA's certainly had bigger kahunas than most modern day leaders. There will always be a niche or a time/place for hexes and stoppers, IMHO.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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I've been laughed at for bringing hexes along, but my young partner (sub 25) found them quick, simple, and effective on the Gallatin Tower standard route (5.9). Dropping them in, and clipping sometimes is sooo much easier than properly seating/securing a cam.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I still use a hip belay when bringing up a second that will be moving fast. I've yet to have anyone give me grief over it. I've probably used every mechanical belay device out there, and none is as fast or smooth as the hip belay.
No sh#t. But try to explain that to someone who started climbing after the introduction of mechanical belay devices. Most simply tune you out. Funny though, you and I and most of the other ancients on this forum could quite comfortably finish a climb after dropping a belay device, and then rap down on a carabiner brake and be in the bar before last call. But what does the climber who refuses to believe belaying or rapelling is possible without a machine do? Yell loudly for a rescue? Hope that the helicopter arrives before dark?
d
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schwortz
Social climber
on the road
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thats my 'old man climber' set up...problem is, at the ripe old age of 28, i can't pretend i ever used this sh#t, when it _wasn't_ already 'old'...still its fun to carry and place for unsuspecting seconds...going all-passive some days does help keep you honest...
i too, like to throw a hip-belay in there every once in a while
i've got two goldlines and a whillians-troll rig down in the basement as well...
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oldcragger
Trad climber
Truckee,CA
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My first serious NOOB lead fall was on Chingadera at Tahquitz in '82. Didn't have a guide book, saw the nice 5.8ish crack and just started up. Didin't know it got serious (5.11) past where the crack ends. Took a whipper but a #2 BD hex saved my ass. Welded in place but I was okay with leaving the $6 for the lesson in humility. Went back later, one of the most fun leads at Tahquitz.
michael
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Where's Scary Larry? He should chime in on this thread.
GO
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Chalk Martin
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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how about leading on 120 feet of gold line with a rack of hexes at the pinnacles
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RRK
Trad climber
Talladega, Al
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Jeez - turn my back for a second and Dirt's spreading lies about me. That gear was not placed in dirt, it was thrown blindly into a crack above a roof and held in place by dirt (temporarily). Anyway, here's a scary picture if I can remember Werner's instructions on how to get it to post.
I would love to hear someone's story about having a fall successfully arrested by the little gizmos on the left because I don't think that it has ever happened in the whole history of mountaineering. i got these about '75 and could never get them to stay still long enough to climb past them. That zinging sound as they slid down the rope was unnerving. I think that they were made to cleanse the gene pool of climber DNA
Remeber when everybody slung their stoppers like the middle piece? I climbed with a guy at Lumpy a few years ago that still had a rack of 'em. Wouldn't you know I stuck one and had to give him one to replace it. He was surprised that I had some too. You could stack these in all sorts of unusual ways. The downside was that you had two pieces of gear on one sling and thus could only make one placement out of two pieces of gear.
The last thing is a gizmo I made up one night after backing off a pitch due to no protection. There was a nice little flake and below it a flaring crack. A couple of beers into the evening it occurred to me that I could hook the flake if I had something to hold it on with. I cut the cord and B-lock out of my pack and made this up. The radius of the hook was supported by the flake. The Crack-n-up was placed inverted in the flaring crack and tightened to the hook with the white cord. Clip the loop on the hook and climb away. The whole thing stayed together long enough to climb past and get some real gear later on. This successful deployment (the look of horror on the second's face was worth the placement) caused me to throw the whole rig in the gear box in case I needed it again. It might actually hold you if you fell really slowly and had light thoughts on the way down.
I taught my climbing classes back in the early 80s all the old school stuff like dulfersitz rap, tying in with a bowline-on-a-coil, various biner-brakes, hip belay, etc. When they would question the usefulness I would tell them this story. In the 70s I climbed in PA's because I couldn't afford the EBs. PA's were a French attempt to manufacture roller-skates. Sometime in the late 70's or early 80's Komito got this stuff that he called BrandX rubber. It was supposed to stick to wet Formica, so I sent my shoes off for a treatment. When I got them back I headed out to the crag to try them out. I was so excited by the stickiness of the new rubber that I didn't really pay attention to my situation until I was way way up there - unroped. It was safer to climb on out so that's what I did. I wound up on a sort of pinnacle with no apparent way down. Then I spied a roped party on the other end preparing to descend. I walked up and asked if I could use their rope. They looked at each other like they thought I was gonna hand-over-hand to the bottom. When I looped it through my leg and over my shoulder they looked at each other like I was some sort of Mountain God. I was wearing a t-shirt, which was quickly pulled away by the rope, leaving a nasty friction burn on my left trap, but I couldn't afford to scream in pain and spoil the effect. When I walked off at the bottom they still thought that I was a Mountain God, but the reality was that I was a Mountain Dumass. Lesson?? Learn all that old-skule stuff cause you never know when you'll suffer an attack of stupidity. Lesson #2, use a pad with the dulfersitz or prepare to be branded
RRK
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Awesome! I love this thread. Great photos. I even see a large SMC Camlok in one pic. Great piece, IMO.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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HAHA, RRK is pretty good reading once you smoke him out!
If you ever get the chance to climb with him, be prepared to die laughing.
And if you read his description of his tensioned hook toy, you know he is truly insane. He once expressed admiration for two aid climbers who claimed that they superglued hangers to the wall, and cleaned them with a light hammer tap.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Ah, those are what we called 'the CMI Swivel of Death' they were very well made by CMI, but it just wasn't one of Kirk's better designs. To be stable the cam lobers needed to have been wider which in turn would have necessitated drilling a lightening hole through some part of the lobe.
And yep, the doubled nuts came in handy and worked well. Charlie Porter's 'Porter Equipment - stamped PE' even put out a set of doubled wired stoppers with the second stopper swaged onto the first already inverted.
I racked (and still do) both Crack'n Ups and Skyhooks in slightly modded form for free climbing pro. Skyhooks come in handy both as desperate pro of last resort and for opposition placements. I've also always racked one or two alpine draws with an additional, and slightly shorter, loop of that same rubber cord for tensioned oppostion placements.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Stoppers & Hexes?
Wiggled in many and climbed passed 'em.
Sometimes fell on them and they usually worked.
Tarbuster at 16, rackin' up at JT:
Red PA's & Knickers:
Photos -Larry Stone.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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One old tactic was to place a nut at the high point, one that you were sure was solid, but not to lower on it or set it by tugging. You would then down climb, perhaps with a bit of tension, removing the other gear as you went. At the bottom, take a big bight of the rope, and flick it cowboy-style until the nut finally came out. You had to flick pretty vigorously - the idea was to jerk the nut upward from wherever it was placed. This sometimes even worked on nuts that had been weighted.
This wouldn't work so well with most camming devices.
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RRK
Trad climber
Talladega, Al
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Mighty Hiker's post put me in a mind of a little tale that I might have already recounted somewhere, but don't mind telling again. In the fall of '80 I grounded out and broke my arms and legs. (a la Dirt's reference earlier) I spent the winter puttering around in a wheelchair. (When you're in plaster and have to go to the bathroom you find out who your friends are) Early the next spring one of my buds from NC decided that I needed to get back up on that "hoss that threw me" so-to-speak. We went up on Grandfather to do a route that he had been looking at. We spent the day thrashing around what we thought was the crux and finally decided to take everything down. It was my intention to do something on the order of Mighty Hiker's little trick, and get away with all our gear. I pulled most of the stuff on the way up and was squirming around, trying to get comfortable to load the "breakaway" piece when I found myself in a freakish sort of stem position which I suddenly realized would enable me to work through the crux. Pondering the consequences of my actions is not something that I have ever done either well or often. Thus, without really thinking about it I made that move, then a few more until I arrived at the real crux of the climb. I found myself way out above something that I was going to shake-off the route, with two fingers jammed in a horizontal slot and feet splayed on edges the thickness of a potato-chip. In my professional opinion a fall from that position would have put me in my partner's lap. There was no place for pro other than the slot that my fingers were in and no room in the slot for both gear and fingers. I was not about to climb past the horizontal slot without getting some gear in it. My downclimbing skills were negligible, so that was not an option either. (My downclimbing is often confused with falling by the casual observer) On my rack I had three sizes of Forrest Arrowhead, which was a single cable nut with a very thin taper. To my eye the middle size was the one I needed. The plan was to hold the gear in one hand, pull into the wall and take my fingers out of the slot, insert the Arrowhead during that second-or-so while I was still somewhat stable, then pull on the cable as I began to fall back. The plan worked perfectly up to the pull-on-the-cable part. The dang thing pulled out. Ninety-nine percent of my body was tensing up for the big whack as I fell back and twisted slightly to the right. Without even looking at the rock I felt those same two fingers jam themselves back into that crack and I pulled myself back upright. Whew! I got the next largest size of Arrowhead and repeated. This time it held. I made the clip and climbed on up for a bit. During all of this I was utterly composed. However when I finally set the belay I freaked. I had a good bit of gear on me from cleaning the lower part of the route, and when I set that belay I started putting it all in. Even while my partner was coming up I was jamming gear in anywhere I could find a placement. When he got to me I looked like I was in some sort of spider web. Anyway, one more pitch and we finished up and got away in the dark (another story in that) It seems funny now but back then you couldn't have driven a RURP up my arse with a sledge-hammer. I still have all three of those Arrowheads but don't carry them anymore because they are so heavy for their size and the newer nuts are so much more versatile. Still, whenever I stumble across them in the gear box it flashes me back to that spring day a long time ago way up high in NC when they were all that was between me and the ground.
RRK
PS it wasn't actually a "tale of hexes and tricams" but may provoke some.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Great Pics Roy at age 16. I am 46 and have hair that long still. would love to be able to wear a cowboy hat but, I look totally rediculous in one.
Love the passive Pro thread. The stuff still works for me.
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jgill
climber
Colorado
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In 1955, while a student at Georgia Tech, I climbed up and onto the lower part of the then-unfinished carving on the north face of Stone Mountain, outside Atlanta. I thought I was the first modern rock climber to wander onto the clean white granite left by stone blasters 20 or 30 years prior to that, until I spied a fairly new Holubar piton sitting on a rock shelf. I never discovered who left it - and there were an infinitesimal number of climbers in Georgia at that time.
In the later 1950s, I came across a pitted and decayed piton in a crack in a spire in the Black Hills, which I suspect had been left by Wiessner and party in the 1930s. It was a prize possession for a number of years until it disappeared from my home.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Larry is still Scary as of a couple of months back. I was in town and went on a little jaunt
with him and Texplorer to survey some new lines up on Mt. Wilson. It was a pretty burly
cold day with a cloud deck on Wilson which wouldn't break up until very late in the day.
Short story was that it ended up being trademark scary with lots of free soloing and occasionally
bringing up the other two on the single twin 60 we had.
We got to a few pitches from the top and had to either summit with the single twin and
essentially no rack to walk off the backside, go back the way we came which I wasn't doing,
or forge an unknown descent off the frontside, again with our single twin. We opted for
the descent and barely got our asses off of there using every shred of webbing on various
shrubberies on the way down - right down to all the slings his Dolt nuts were slung on.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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right down to the slings his Dolt nuts were slung on.
And weren't you glad his slings are tied, not sewn!
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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It is slightly possible that a mountaineer old enough and from the south, but in Birmingham, named Tommy Taylor left that piton at stone mountain. OR, he might know who did, but he's either dead now, or too senile to offer any help in the matter I think.
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FeelioBabar
climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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Future primitive...passive is good...keeps you in touch with souls of the gods
These two (complete with sewn slings by inside sources at local big name gear manufacturer) still see action to cover the hand sizes withoutout carrying double cams around, and also an alpine must. The filed pinkie, and new black are staples (complete with gunks stiffener to aid placement like a wired nut).
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Double D
climber
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Tarbuster: RIGHT ON! Totally dig the threads!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oh, Feelio's pic reminds me the only sign of another human we saw on the
Mt. Wilson our descent. Texplorer found this righteous jewel on one of the
middle raps and we are still confused as to what this mystery person did for
anchors on the other six or seven raps as there was no tat whatsoever anywhere
else on the descent that we could see. But clearly, at least one other soul long ago
traveled that same path down. The best guess from the locals was some character
named Max of whom I could not seem to learn anything more about.
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Mar'
Trad climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Aug 24, 2008 - 10:45pm PT
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I held out for a long time from (buying) Friends. All my friends had friends. It wasn't a couple months after they came out (on the market), that "The Consolation" on Tahquitz was sporting a fixed friend.
I wasn't and still am not crazy about them and still carry three or four hexes and the smallest tricams. Tricams seemed pretty pointless on California granite, when a visitor introduced them to me. I never had them until I moved to New Mexico, where real granite is virtually non-existent. I understand tricams were developed for Lumpy Ridge, Colorado. They're very good in the Sandias and at Tres Piedras, which is like a teeny J-tree with pine trees, lovely.
When I finally did buy some friends (the .5 and 3/4 being bootlegs), I racked each cam singly on the same 'biner with the correspondingly sized stoppers and hexes. The others were a 1.5, 2 and #3. The biggest hex I ever carried with any regularity was the #9.
I still rack the same way, only I use the small to medium Aliens and 1,2,3 BD cams.
I still use my old set of hexes and stoppers (that I have left) when I visit California.
Anybody have a wired 4 1/2 stopper and a 6 1/2 stopper they're willing to part with?
Once, on the belay near the top of the Thunderbird Wall on east face of Mt. Sill in the Palisades. I nested a #9 hex and a #2 1/2 stopper— with a hip belay, duh.
I interviewed a prospective mentee a couple days ago who has been climbing 10 years (he's 27) and has never used anything but a Grigri. He said they're safer for when you get knocked unconscious by a falling rock.
When I found out he has never had anything but quickdraws and 'biners for a rack I involuntarily grabbed a small wad of modern metolius curve-nuts and gave them to him. Ten years climbing hard and never set any pro—Ahhhhh!! Unbelievable.
How 'bout Sliders? Did they ever! I remember leading an aid pitch (the 8th or 9th) on the West Buttress on El Cap and that slider placement was inexorably oozing out of the slot (in May, that whole route can be like wrestling alligators)! It seemed like I was hanging right over the Merced with my aiders flying in the breeze while I calmly and smoothly set the next point of aid!
Who's still got a Super Long Dong nut-tool— the extra long Lost Arrow piton with the notch in the end that sold for $3.50 in 1976? I actually saved a life with that thing rescuing a guy that got off-route on the 900 foot ice gully on Mt. Gilbert (his partner fell 900 feet). But that's another story!
Don't forget the small hexes that are great for bailing off of mountains! Do forget about Crack'n Ups (that weird thing hanging below the hook in the above picture). Just kidding, I used them— and they make great wind-chimes, too!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 24, 2008 - 11:42pm PT
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It's all a matter of perspective. I did all of my first ascents in Yosemite with hexes, stoppers, swami belts, E.B.s, and hip belays. We thought that we had the best gear and the best systems in the world. You don't miss something that doesn't exist.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 25, 2008 - 02:58am PT
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Well said, Donini.
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Hard Rock
Trad climber
Montana
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Aug 25, 2008 - 04:57pm PT
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RRK
 With your 2 stoppers on one sling - we rotated one of the stoppers 180 degrees so we could use them as a slider nut. I never fell on a set used like that but I always thought it would work in theory.
-K
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scuffy b
climber
Elmertown
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Aug 25, 2008 - 05:21pm PT
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Hard Rock, your memory may be off. Slung as in RRK's picture,
the top stopper is flopped over when placing the nut as a
slider.
If one of the stoppers is slung upside down, how would you get
the nuts to slide in a usable size/shape?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 25, 2008 - 05:49pm PT
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"You don't miss something that doesn't exist."
wow. nice one. elegantly put. i'm writing that on a post-it and sticking it on my desk.
so applicable to so many things right now.
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Wack
climber
Dazevue
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Aug 26, 2008 - 12:46am PT
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On Werner's Crack my buddy stacked a #10 and #11 Hex in a "T" while hanging out with an arm bar. I thought it was pretty creative while being useless as pro. It really doesn't matter as Werner's Crack is no more, just a memory that makes your palms sweat.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Aug 26, 2008 - 01:32am PT
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The switch from pounding pitons to nuts in the Gunks was helped by Stannard's selected placement of his special soft iron angles in critical places. Between these and lots of other fixed iron that is now gone, many leads were not as scary as they would be now if you showed up with a meager rack of stoppers and hexes. The switch to clean climbing in the Gunks would have been less fun and nowhere near as popular without the fixed gear. The pounding of iron stopped and the rock was all the better for it. This did not mean that lots of time was not spent arranging artistic opposition placements in the cobbled horizontals.
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Hard Rock
Trad climber
Montana
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Aug 26, 2008 - 09:37am PT
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scuffy-
your right. the picture does show thing in the correct order.
Had to get out the nuts to get it right. Thinking the old saddle wedges would be the way to go. Off set them enough for the edge to fit in the curved groove in the middle. I don't think you could off set them too much because you would still need the sling to follow a somewhat straight path.
-k
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Aug 26, 2008 - 11:31am PT
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My nephew took this awesome pic of a tricam and hex at dawn.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 26, 2008 - 11:41am PT
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Sort of looks like a poster for "Hangout at the Tri-cam Corral" or something. :-)
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peter gold
Trad climber
Vt
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Nov 16, 2009 - 02:39am PT
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To all and sundry--I remember, have , and still climb with: campbell saddle wedges, hexes, tri-cams, and assorted nuts, chocks, stoppers, etc. As well as knotted slings (gasp!) and jammed chockstones.
Hey--whatever works. I have Aliens, Camalots, and a bunch of pretty exotic little gear. And again--whatever works.
Its all fun--just a question of what you feel like hauling up that day.
On ice--yes i remember warthogs. And Lowe snargs--remember them? these days ice screws are SO much better to work with. And tools too.
and prons and boots. But does all that stuff make one a better climberr?
Maybe. Maybe not.
Its ultimately whats in your head, and heart and how you can read the ice, the rock, the snow.
I've been out of touch for a while--some major shoulder and knee injuries, but now i look forward to climbing again, even though as a certifiably old guy I will be a little slow...but hey--whatever works right?
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hooblie
climber
sounding out stuff as in the manner of crickets
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Nov 16, 2009 - 05:25am PT
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they way i heard it, at the old climbers home the aids while come by
and kindly rattle a rack of hexes and open a bottle of benzoine
if you're holding up the line at the load drop
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Nov 16, 2009 - 11:17am PT
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What a great thread! My favorite thing about the days of hexs was sketching pulling thru the crux as you heard the clang clang clang of your last piece pulling and sliding down the rope.
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Gagner
climber
Boulder
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Nov 16, 2009 - 12:42pm PT
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Never really used tri-cams much.
Memorable for me was a 1979 ascent of the Nasal Passage with a double set of hexes and double set of stoppers. I recall some pretty funky stacks on the very parallel sections of Boot and the pitch above the Glowering Spot. Hardly even think about those pitches these days with cams....
Paul
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KitKat
Trad climber
my van, CA or Mexico
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Nov 30, 2009 - 03:24pm PT
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My first rack was double hexes, double nuts, total of 6 cams.... and a pink tri-cam... WE SENT THAT SHIOT!!!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 30, 2009 - 03:24pm PT
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I vividly remember stacking hexs in semi-pocketed pegmatite 'cracks' down in Glenwood Canyon before I-70 got blasted through the place. I also recall thinking at the time that it would be hard to conjour up a more pointless and futile activity.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 30, 2009 - 04:24pm PT
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Anybody want to buy some?
PM me.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Pink and red tri-cams. I always carry them on a trad lead. I haven't fallen on them, but I have lowered off of them more than once. They work in pockets where nothing else will stay. They work in vertical cracks, horizontal cracks, in Acadia, Seneca, Squamish, J-Tree. I have put them on opposite sides of a block in hopes that they would hold by keeping the block in place. I remember using tri-cams when I had a stance to fiddle with gear, and slamming in the friends/camelots when time was of the essence. With their unique properties and my lack of courage, the tri-cams were deployed often.
In New England, the rock is not as abundant. So we would amuse ourselves with all nut ascents, all tri-cam ascents, all tied sling ascents of various climbs. It took creativity to stay entertained on the local crag.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Mare Infinitum
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I like the new tiny tricams, too.
.125 & .25.....white & black, respectively.
Sink the Tiny Whitey! Then L'il Black....THEN sink the pink.
Oh, yeah.
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Brendan
Trad climber
Yosemite, CA
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Im a youngster compared to you cats, but i when i started guiding in the new river gorge I distinctly remember spending $120 of my $127.35 bank account to prodeal a rope.
I ate alot of pasta and hot sauce for a while.
I didn't have any money for cams so I bought a set of nuts and hexes. led two seasons on them and remember being totally horrified and amazed when I whipped 8 feet on a #4 hex cammed into a parallel crack and it held. I think i remember givin the big guy up stairs some serious props that evening. I can safely say that you old schoolers are badass.
they say the nut cracker with nuts? I say Reid's direct with hexes and nuts, so bomber! (second pitch anyways)
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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Leave all the tri cams ( never carried even one of those ) and hexes ( used to carry a lot of those ) in the climbing museum. It's stoppers and cams guys, unless you're in the gunks where it's old rusty pins....
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Don't donate them to a museum - send to me!!! or give/sell them to a newbie who just bought a rope and can't afford any cams yet. Passing the torch to a new generation.
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F10
Trad climber
e350
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Stoppers and Hexes, thats all there was
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taorock
Trad climber
Okanogan, WA
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I must say, following Gary Isaacs up Horns Mother in the Voo in 1975 was a real eye-opener for me in the art of leading. He used Hex's. No desperate placements. He used natural stances for the sparse placements.
I also remember leading the crack of the first pitch of the North Face of Castleton. Friends had just come out and we had a total of three. Most of that crack was protected by Hex's. Didn't seem gnarly. Fast forward to the late 90's when I shamed a party of two into leading that pitch after they were about to beg off because they "only" had two sets of cams.
Times change. The crack was hard for them. The face was easy. Just the opposite when I was on it.
Brent
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Chillin' in the City of Trees
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2 big hexes was the anchor at the flake when Darrin walked the Lost Arrow.
Bomber.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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It's funny that people can't imagine how others coped without "necessities" like cell phones, the internet et al. How was it possible to live in Houston before air conditioning? I've said it before: you don't miss what doesn't exist and you make do with what does. In every generation of my climbing career I had the best equipment available and felt privileged to have it.
I did the first ascents of Leaning Meanie, Enema Crack, Basket Case, Overhang Overpass et al before cams and lived to tell the tale. You play with the hand you're dealt.
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sanarteaga
Trad climber
Bogotá
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Greetings from Colombia!
Well down here hexes are still very in fashion... Partly because we climb on rather soft sandstone and hexes a lot of times are safer (sometimes cams tend to break the interior of cracks and slip out...) and partly cause we are poor... and gear is more expensive here than in the US.
In suesca, the largest climbing area near bogota, you can still hear the hexes sound all around...
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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haha - my hexes are the oldest thing on my rack...
i started with half a set of hexes and half a set of nuts (insert joke)...6 quickdraws, 3 slings and you're off ! it was a while before i had a cam...
i still remember looking down and watching a hex zip out and slide down the rope - it only happened to me like 5 times ? doh...i wonder if it's because they were wired and not tied...that and i was clueless...
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flakyfoont
Trad climber
carsoncity nv
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still use my hexes. wired #1-#3 lock real well in pin scars like serenity crack. mobydick center sucks up large hexes and are totally bomber.last time I did it my brand new #4 camelots (crap) both rattled sideways AND ABOUT 90 FEET UP FELL OUT !!!
and yes I do get slandered for carrying them.
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