Chouinard in his own voice "Coonyard Mouths Off"

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Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jan 19, 2005 - 01:35am PT

Nature, I just happen to have that catalog sitting right next to my chair now, funny but I have actually looked through the catalog 2 or 3 times a year since it was sent to my home nearly 30 years ago. That catalog, and the "Chinese painting" catalog that Roger refered to have been inspirational to my climbing all these years.

I don't know what set Pappy off... Melissa's wonderings? I am old enough to remember Chouinard complaining about clothing. On page 83 of the catalog Nature posted the cover of we find:

"Knickers used to be baggy, and used to serve their purpose by covering the legs yet allowing the maximum freedom of movement. But the fashion-freak skiers get hold of the idea and knickers have since become high-water pants useful only for bar hopping."

And now we have Patagonia... but I do think Pappy is way off base saying Patagonia doesn't make gear for mountain climbing, much of the gear I use to go into the mountains is made by Patagonia, it is simple, functional and effective, much in the spirit of Chouinard Equipment. And Chouinard himself stated that he never made much of a profit, I doubt that making a profit was his highest priority.

... and not just California mountains, but the Rockies (Canadian and American), the Wind's, Cascades, the White's of NH, etc, etc... places and times when having the right clothing was a matter of living and dying, and Patagonia was often the only manufacturer with the real gear.

Roger Breedlove

Trad climber

Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2005 - 05:03am PT

I have a historical question about the dates Great Pacific Iron Works introduced Hexcentrics, both the original style and the later, 3 way, style. Anyone know?

I have been organizing my old rack, in secret, in my basement, beyond prying eyes, and found 3 of the earlier symmetric. But I cannot get the timing right of when either came out.
I also found some unused, absurdly useless British wired nuts made of stainless that would walk out of any placement. It is amazing that anyone bothered with nuts until Chouinard and Frost came out with their versions.

Roger

Pappy

Trad climber

Atlanta

Jan 19, 2005 - 09:49am PT

Can't Speak Clearly: CA was an agricultural state until WWII. During that and through the Cold War, tiny businesses like Lockheed, Rockwell, and Northrup created the SoCal lifestyle. If you are going to be a proud native, you ought to at least have some f**king idea what your history is.

I would agree that you need to discourage the influx of stupid people. Unfortunately, you do not appear to be very good at that.

Everyone is supposed to love SD for the climate, then they buy a crackerbox house for $600K ten feet from the next cracker box out in the desert east of town where it goes to a 105 in the summer. This is not the action of a rational person.

Again, I love CA. But you are f*#king things up magnificently. I would suggest that you listen.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jan 19, 2005 - 10:39am PT

Roger, in the "Machapuchare" catalog (the cover posted by Nature above) the Hexcentric product description states:

"Since 1971, the Chouinard Hexcentric Chock has proved its usefulness on hundreds of clean ascents. In 1974 the Hexcentric shape took on an even more radical turn and came out looking as eccentric as it sounds..."

... I'd guess you have some of the pre-1974 hexes. The hexes you are sorting in your basement aren't the ones that you are sporting on your rack in that awesome photo of you leading "Meat Grinder", are they?

Roger Breedlove

Trad climber

Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2005 - 12:02pm PT

Thanks for the dates and information, Ed. That is Jim Pettigrew leading the Meatgrinder. I took the photo.

Best, Roger

Largo

Sport climber

Venice, Ca

Jan 19, 2005 - 12:49pm PT

Pappy should run for dictator of a 3rd world country or jump up on the soap box of a fire and brimstone road show. Good theater, wouldn't you say?

If you want to actually learn about early California, read Three Years before the Mast, a classic by any meausre.

JL

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jan 19, 2005 - 03:14pm PT

Roger... "every picture tells a story, don't it?"... what's the story!
Going up there with modern gear is one thing, but being up there with a rack of hexes and nuts, well, that is something quite different. By turns the same climb and a different climb. That picture gave me a very odd thirst for "Meat Grinder" that is not yet quenched, but will be this coming year.

Brian

climber

Jan 19, 2005 - 03:34pm PT

THREAD HIJACK (Give Chouinard a break, its good to set high standards for ourselves. Moreover, if we are honest with ourselves we are all hypocrites to a large degree--no good man lives up to what he hopes for himself [although that does not mean we should excuse hypocrisy])...

John,

"Two Years Before the Mast" is a classic! I love the description of the vodka-drinking, lard-eating Russian fellas who (I think) came across the Bering, down through what is now Alaska and Canada, to CA. Classic.

Brian

can't say

Social climber

Pasadena CA

Jan 19, 2005 - 03:47pm PT

Pappy you are showing your ignorant side dude by pursuing this thread drift when you don't know your ass from a doughnut. Without going into a lengthy discourse on California history (I was a history major, taught the stuff for too long, families been here since the turn of the century, I think I know what I am talking about)

Sure the aircraft industry played a role in promoting the place but please don't think they pulled that idea out of thin air. A couple of areas you should maybe read up on that will give you a glimpse in the origins of California and it's association with the liesure/livable lifestyle would be the origins of Santa Barbra, Pasadena etc. and the impact the arrival of the ATSF Railroad into the So. Cal market had on their American experience.

And yes please stay there in the good ole Dixie and revel in the wonderful climate you have from May to Oct or there abouts.

cheers
Pat

dmitry

Trad climber

Chita, Russia

Jan 19, 2005 - 04:09pm PT

pappy and can't say,
please keep it up.

this is priceless entertainment!

i am yet to get any work done this afternoon, since i found this thread heading down this new path...

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jan 19, 2005 - 04:19pm PT

Not only did Chouinard set high standards, he wrote them down in an idiom which was comphrensible to climbers. We may all hope to live up to our youthful expectations as closely as Chouinard has, and we haven't the burden of being reminded just what those standards where from our past writings.

Largo

Sport climber

Venice, Ca

Jan 19, 2005 - 04:27pm PT

Hey, Brian--

I often humiliate myself with typos on my posts becasue I dash them off in no time and never proof nothing. But "Three Years before the Mast" is really a bad one. "Two Years," as you pointed out, is the real title, and it is a great read, especially for a native-born Californian like myself, with all the references to places now teaming like ant farms that back in the day were Indian outposts and nothing more.

JL

Pappy

Trad climber

Atlanta

Jan 19, 2005 - 05:24pm PT

y'all are reading stuff into my posts that ain't there. I never said that Atlanta was any great shakes; I used to laugh like hell when people would bitch about the traffic in SD, when Atlanta is clearly the worst in the nation. Fortunately, I'm the boss and I can show up whenever the f*#k I wish, and we're located way north of the bad stuff, so I don't care.

I'm kind of stuck here as an historical legacy, but I went to school in VT and lived in Breckenridge for while (for the ice, not the skiing, Dingus. Go figure.) and intend to retire to either New England or the Rockies. or if I do really well, the Virgin Islands!

But we used to spend more on workers' comp for our itty bitty facility in SD than on the rest of the company. It's just a bald faced fact that CA is f**king itself. And like Can't Speak Clearly, is too stupid to understand it.

Largo

Sport climber

Venice, Ca

Jan 19, 2005 - 05:26pm PT

I grew up with Mexicans, they gave me my nickname (Largo) when I was seven, I have a Guyabara shirt on right now, I'm married to a Hispanic (Venezuela) and my two sdaughters are multicultural. Rid California of the "immigrants" (my ancestors came here from Ireland two generations ago), in particular, the Hispanics, and my world basically vanishes.

Didn't mean to vier so far off-thread but Hispanic bashing don't wash with me.

JL

Pappy

Trad climber

Atlanta

Jan 19, 2005 - 06:04pm PT

umm, Sewer, Jeff Davis was not a general. Not that I would expect you to know that.

That said, Stone Mt. would be one of the great granite domes in the nation if stupid red necks did not occassionally fall off of it.

I'm up for a mid-nite raid if you are. I'll bring the circa '80s rack to forfeit. Spending the night in jail with Bubba might be interesting, but I'm going to nominate you for all of the anatomical experiments.

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Jan 19, 2005 - 07:42pm PT

As a second generation Californio, that grew up in the orange groves, (Covina) I've had a long standing fantasy that all that couldn't prove their lineage back a couple of generations were forcefuly expropriated with an illegal under each arm.

Atlanta is as bad as LA, Chicago, NY, Phily even worse.

Just to damn many people everywhere.

The evil side of me is secretly wishing for a repeat of 1862. Riverside, Orange, and most of LA County will be flushed out to sea, and we can start over.

David Nelson

climber

San Francisco

Jan 19, 2005 - 09:01pm PT

Roger and others with old hardware you don't know what to do with: if you think it has historical value, contact Ken Yager (yager@inreach.com) and see if he can use it for the Yosemite Climbing Museum. He has some really incredible artifacts, like two of the original Stoveleg pitons. I gave him a complete set of virgin bongs by Chouinard (I bought all my shop's stock when they were taken off the market, 1972?).

The reason is that the equipment will be saved, recorded, and displayed in Yosemite.

dirtineye

Trad climber

the south

Jan 19, 2005 - 11:19pm PT

What pisses Problem Pappy off?

Alcohol (when he''s using it). And stuff he don't like. And comments about his... Nah, too easy.

But you have to admit, he is entertaining. He's most entertaining when being stung by yellow jackets while stumbling around the top of a cliff, drunk as a coot, looking for a climb from the wrong end, haha! Oh yeah, in the rain.

I'd tell you the stream of invective that flows from this man's mouth while climbing is a thing to behold, except that he only has a 4 word vocabulary when he's under stress.

Dictator of a small country? Problem Pappy would surely tell you he deserves a large one.

Earth to Jim, let's go climbing Sunday, you putz.