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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Jan 18, 2005 - 01:21am PT
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Some dumb fuk said:
"But it is pretty clear that CA is a f*#king economic disaster."
Well maybe if you keep all your kin down home, we wouldn't have these little economic issues foisted on us by shithole people who don't give a fook about this state to begin with. If I see another car with Texass, plates I'll fookin scream. You inbred knuckleheads moan about this place till you're blue in the face and then you move here and make it worse.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 18, 2005 - 01:22am PT
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StyMingersfinks question: "why must every station be bolted?"
Paranoia
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2005 - 07:01am PT
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Only three!!!! What if one or two pull??
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Pappy
Trad climber
Atlanta
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Jan 18, 2005 - 10:15am PT
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Some stupid bastard wrote:
"Some dumb fuk said:
'But it is pretty clear that CA is a f*#king economic disaster.'
Well maybe if you keep all your kin down home, we wouldn't have these little economic issues foisted on us by shithole people who don't give a fook about this state to begin with. If I see another car with Texass, plates I'll fookin scream. You inbred knuckleheads moan about this place till you're blue in the face and then you move here and make it worse."
I've actually walked the length of CA, which I doubt you can say, and loved every minute of it, from the desert scrub in SD county, across San Jacinto (in a wicked snowstorm), and Antelope Valley, and the Sierras, and the Trinity Alps. For the first 7 years of this business I had our R&D center in SD (basically because our head of R&D was born and raised in SD and wouldn't move, but you finally drove him out, too. He's now outside Sedona.)
I wouldn't move to CA at the point of a gun. Nor will I ever locate a business unit there again. The only people moving there are illegals, junkies, and dirtbag climbers. The serious producers are splitting. Sucks for you, but NV digs it. (Typical CA move: Float wholesale electricity prices but fix retail, then blame the rest of the country when you don't have any f*#king juice. Just brilliant.)
As to adventure, the ice season sucks down here, but it teaches fortitude. We think 2" thick stuff is fully formed, it's the 1/2" stuff that gets a little disturbing. That and the inbred as#@&%es blazing away at what would have been a classic WI6 route (as once happened to me.) But we have hundreds of miles of undeveloped, bullet hard sandstone. I could quite literally spend the rest of my days climbing every weekend doing nothing but FAs. So you just keep on thinking you've got the promised land. Like I said before, the geography is wasted on you.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jan 18, 2005 - 11:35am PT
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To get off the spire we rapped our route. Had we been able to establish natural anchors we would have.I suppose we could have left camalots instead. Leaving a pin vs a bolt, to me is the same. Still needed the hammer and still made a new hole (of sorts), and you are still leaving steel in the rock.
Not sure why folks need three bolt belays. Perhaps convenience for hauling and sleeping is the best lame excuse.
Oh, and I understand Bridwells game. But my name isn't Jim. Wouldn't it be great if we could all be like him? Reality check says I'm not even close to his burlyness.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jan 18, 2005 - 12:36pm PT
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Chouinard made one error in that piece: he told people what to do, how to do it and heaped judgement on his own preferred methods. The best one can do is to make suggestions, and leave it up to individuals to make their own decisions with or without "your" approval. Push for legislation to protect the environment, but climbers need to be free to make their own choices.
JL
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Pappy
Trad climber
Atlanta
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Jan 18, 2005 - 12:49pm PT
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Dingus,
I'm north of Atlanta so that I'm 2 hrs. from both TN/AL/GA sandstone and big NC granite. You'd be shocked at how much has gone on here in the last decade or so. You'd be even more shocked at how much more there is to do. We finally figured out the access to another multi-mile wall recently. I am just not going to live long enough to scoop all this stuff up. Dammit.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jan 18, 2005 - 01:21pm PT
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Some of you old-schoolers may remember this catalog:
My boss from a fish plant job gave this to me about 15 years ago.
There's a neat page or two regarding clean climbing techniques. I didn't find it so opinionated as the above article. I think the catalog dates to 1975 or 1976. Anyone who has ever opened it and looked as done so in amazment. It's really cool.
I could probably make the effort to scan the pages and post them. It's only 40 pages long =P
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Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2005 - 02:07pm PT
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Hey Nature:
I do remember that catalogue cover--cool picture. I have one also from the early years that has a toned down version of the CMO rant. It has a Chinese painting on the cover, around 5 1/2 by 9 inches.
Ryan's post about how the "its over crowded, the adventure is gone" resonates the most with me. Probably the way John Muir felt too.
However, I only have a vague recollection of anyone in those times saying that it was better style to clean on gear--becuase leading was were it's at!!! Ya think??
Werner or John, do you recall that?
Best, Roger
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Jan 18, 2005 - 09:08pm PT
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I think you need to be very careful before you call Choiunard a hypocrite. I have met him a number of times and his generosity has helped many a non-profit conservation organization, including one I am active with (Federation of Fly Fishers). He is the genuine article, as he has put his money where his mouth is. When he says that his company has given $20 million, remember, that money came out of his and his associates' pocket. Don't throw stones until you are giving money out of your pocket. I know his 1% program, and know of other businesses that were moved by him and now similarly donate 1% of gross (not profit) to conservation organizations.
Each of us needs to examine ourselves, our actions, and be sure we are supporting the conservation organization of our choice with our money. If you don't, then you are the hypocrit.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 18, 2005 - 09:36pm PT
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Chouinard Rules! He could hardly set a better example.
That doesn't mean that everything he ever said was always accurate or somehow anticipated developements and trends in the future. We all get wiser as we move along in life, and we all still have blind spots. You take the guy as a whole and he's a major hero.
He started a great gear company whose stuff most of us use (and everybody used back in the day) and now his employees own it! He was a pioneer in climbing and is now a pioneer in responsible business. I'd give him a friggen noble prize for something if I could,
Even so, back when he wrote that folks shouldn't climb to Sickle if they weren't going to climb the whole Nose, I wrote and told him (or that magazine that published it, can't remember) that he was off base in some of his remarks.
Nobody has perfect vision.
Peace
karl
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jan 18, 2005 - 10:02pm PT
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I almost threw that old catalog away this weekend, but after reading a few pages I couldn't. 3 decades ago that catalog was the climbers wish list, as young aspiring climbers we would oogle that catalog for hours while in school, finally saving up enough money to buy 6 biners and a set of nuts , which supplemented our homemade gear. The good old days. Just last week an ex climbing buddy of mine asked me if I knew were to get a cool retro pair of Chouinards glacier glasses, sorry no clue on that one. That catolog and RR's books sure shaped a generation.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Jan 18, 2005 - 10:10pm PT
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You know Pappy I was going to fire off some stereotypical native Californian diatribe, but then I fired off a nice freshy and realized that you're just the kind of ex-resident I like. I'm glad you took your company elsewhere and I hope you encourage more to follow you to that wonderful eden called the South.
So you're an intrepid backppacker...like that's something to be proud of...LOL,
"Like I said before, the geography is wasted on you."
Geez a bit of a presumptious ass I see too. Since you do not know who I am or what I have done, don't let your melon get to big in thinking trodding over the PCT is something special.
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Pappy
Trad climber
Atlanta
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Jan 18, 2005 - 10:19pm PT
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"I'm glad you took your company elsewhere and I hope you encourage more to follow you to that wonderful eden called the South."
Ergo the economic disaster. But I'm sure you can continue to prosper by selling each other tacos.
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mike
climber
tahoe city, ca.
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Jan 18, 2005 - 11:03pm PT
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Pappy, don't be angry cuz you couldn't make your whatever company work out here in Ca. I'm glad your not here. Too bad all the rest of the easterners wont leave. Nothing stupider than a Subaru with LT and VT stickers on it.
mike
NATIVE Californian (and proud of it)
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Pappy
Trad climber
Atlanta
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Jan 18, 2005 - 11:43pm PT
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"Pappy, don't be angry cuz you couldn't make your whatever company work out here in Ca. I'm glad your not here. Too bad all the rest of the easterners wont leave. Nothing stupider than a Subaru with LT and VT stickers on it."
Outside of that incredibly illiterate response.
Look, I'm not banging on you nitwits, I'm trying to warn you. Most companies are running, not walking, away from CA. (Has the Governator managed to defuse that stink bomb Gray left you with, the additional six week vacation act, aka paid family leave?}
I will cheerfully admit that--outside of New Zealand--CA would be the best place on the planet to live. And you f**ked it up.
BTW, retard, we're doing gangbusters. Just not in CA.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Jan 18, 2005 - 11:57pm PT
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Pappy the more companies that follow your lead, the better for this state will be. With a projected population of 50 million plus in a few decades, I think a trend of encouraging people to leave should be the offical doctrine and mantra for anyone who loves this place like I do.
You don't get it do you? Development and pro business policies that put the bottom line as their raison-d`etre at the cost of loss of habitat, open space and a hypercrowding that is ruining this state are what's wrong.
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Pappy
Trad climber
Atlanta
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Jan 19, 2005 - 12:11am PT
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This is too easy.
What a fking dumbst.
The CA lifestyle was originally built on defense companies. And they have split.
Intel will never build another fab in CA.
None of the auto companies will ever build another assembly plant in CA.
CA is so out of touch with reality that we ought to shoot all you motherf**kers to the moon. Or Mars. Or something.
We make teeny tiny little advanced ceramic parts for fiber optics, biotech, satellite heat exchangers, and SOFCs (solid oxide fuel exchangers).
One would think we are the kind of company that CA would embrace.
Right.
You're f*#ked. I would suggest that you wrap yourself around that concept.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Jan 19, 2005 - 01:10am PT
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HAHAHA..too funny. You guys are great. Prime examples of exactly what I'm talking about.
"The CA lifestyle was originally built on defense companies."
Pappy where do you get this stuff?? not even close, the lifestyle started around 1880s when the railroads spurred the first land booms here and the lifestyle was central to how they promoted it.
Zarmog sputtered,
"THAT'S IT! IF I STILL HAD MY TEXAS PLATES, WHICH I DON'T SINCE I HAVE COLORADO PLATES"
I'm surprised they let you in Colorado. Oh that's right, you're a Texan..LOL I'm sure they just looove you guys in Colorado...HAHAHAHA
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